Replacing my 19.5's

[Barry]

Here is a picture of the Michelins that I have all the way around right now. If I went north with this tread and encountered winter conditions, I don't think they would do well... View attachment 79243



Here is a picture of the Continental HSR. My plan is to re-groove all of the center including the diagonal lines and then run them on the drive axle thru the winter.

View attachment 79244



Whadiyathink?

 

[MChrist]

Continental HSR showing "bridge" between lugs:

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Continental HDR. Note lugs on shoulders and "V" between lugs. :

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Barry, I took pics of my HSR and HDRs for you. You can clearly see the bridge between the lugs where my finger is pointing. The HDRs have lugged shoulders and tapered ( not bridged) lugs. The bridge starts about 8/32" from bottom of groove. They do that for tread stability, since they are for the steer axle.



I would widen the 2 center circumferential grooves slightly, deepen all 4 grooves 2/32", cut the grooves between the female "puzzle pieces", but don't cut the thin zig-zag. You want some rubber on the ground, and that narrow slice will give you stability and a cutting edge, much the same way sipes do.



I would try that first, and if I still needed more, then I would move to the outer edge and cut where the straight cuts are, not the zig-zag.



On the bottom picture, pay attention to that spot just above the "27". It may just be a surface crack, hopefully.



When you cut the center grooves, don't weave. Push straight, stop, change angle, push again, stop...



Looks like you may want roughly 6/32" wide grooves. You must measure tread depth at all 4 grooves and adjust blade accordingly. If the center actually is more worn than the outer ends (as you mentioned), then you will lower your blade accordingly for the outer grooves.



That Michelin is the same one that I have on my GMC 5500. Looks like an XZE, I think. Great tire! Here is a picture of how much rubber there is just before you hit steel:

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The factory grooves look deceiving, since they have the rubber stone ejectors in them. They are actually 8/32" deep here. I cut the groove 15/32" deep and you can just start to see where the rubber is just starting to show a diagonal streak. In this pic, there is about 2/32" before steel. This tire was hit in the sidewall and tore the belts, so it was a good candidate to experiment with. I would not hesitate to groove this tire 5/32" deeper than stock, add some diagonal grooves for extra traction, and use them as drive tires. Actually, I wouldn't hesitate to groove them 4/32" deeper and use them as steers! But that is just me. .

 

[MChrist]

Barry, regarding your Michelin XZE, I took my scrap tire and cut several different groove patterns to show you what could be done with that tire. (6 to be exact). Depending on what you want to accomplish, I have the tread design for you. I also grooved one to show you what NOT to do. If you would like to see them, let me know, and I will have my wife upload/download those pictures.

If you are only interested in using the Michelins for dry/wet conditions, (not snow/mud), then I have pics of what I did to a front set of Bridgestones. The Bridgestone pattern is very similar to the Michelin, and I did a very small amount of siping and cut a 1/32" diagonal along the center channel. The driver reported a "huge" difference in traction in rain. We really haven't had any snow, yet, so I'm waiting to hear about that.

Those particular tires are on our Isuzus and they are always turning sharp, hard corners, and the drivers are hard on the brakes, so I was curious how well the siping would hold up. I also chose the truck of the most aggressive driver to practice on. If the tires were going to get chewed up, it would be on this truck. So far, they look perfect!

 

[MChrist]

The advantages of siping:


What is SIPING and how does it help your tires grip the road - YouTube

 

[Barry]

Would love to see pictures. New blades came in yesterday. Need all the help I can get!

 

[MChrist]

Barry, my pics will be up in the next few hours. Are you going to work on the Continentals first, or the Michelins?
On your Michelins, I noticed that your factory diagonal sipe in the center rib is almost gone. That probably puts you at around 6/32"?
I'll show you several patterns on a Michelin, but are you leaning more toward just extra miles and upgraded traction, or maximum traction in snow/mud? If you are just looking for more miles and upgraded traction, I have the perfect pattern for you. Same for the Continentals, max traction or just extra miles?
Let me know so I know what direction to steer the boat.
Also, what width blades did you get? That makes a difference in what pattern I may recommend.

 

[Barry]

Mr. Christ,



I bought the wheels and tires off Ebay. While the fronts have high tread, the rears are about 50%. My real concern is all the tires have the typical Michelin weather cracking on the side walls. The rears worse than the fronts.



My thoughts were to do a "combo" traction/mileage re-groove to the Continentals and run them on the rear.

 

[MChrist]

Do you mean continentals on rear and Michelins on front? And will plan on using them in snow, or just Florida highways?

 

[Barry]

Yes sir. According to the "sidewall cracking chart" from Michelin, my fronts are in tolerance. The rears are marginal. We sometimes run north to Indiana if it suits us. But if its snowing, we don't go. That is not to say that we might not run into some winter weather and so I think the Continentals have a little more aggressive tread than the Michelins.



I have enough tires for now and some for after while... ... ..... so its not a problem.

 

[MChrist]

Barry, if you are just looking for extra miles and improved traction in dry and rainy conditions, this is what I would recommend for your Michelins:



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It shows a deeper, slightly wider groove with small "sipe grooves" at the edge of the groove. I used a 3/32" blade, but I would actually recommend a 1/32" blade or even just siping them. The next picture shows a close-up.



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For the Michelin, I would pull 4/32" out of all of the grooves, and make each groove 1-2/32" wider than stock. Since your groover can also sipe, I would sipe the 3 center ribs.



Now, if you were looking for more traction, this would be the next step up:

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(Keep in mind that I would cut the grooves deeper on every option I'm showing. I just didn't do it here. )

Next, for even more traction, I took the last pattern and added narrower grooves between the wider grooves:

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Pretty simple.

I thought I was being a genius with this pattern:

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But if you look at the top of the rubber blocks, there is only a narrow amount of rubber, nothing to keep it in place, so it is very squirmy. A narrower blade would have better results here.



Next is a simple pattern that I wouldn't recommend, unless you like the sound of chainsaws. Very simple, but the perpendicular edges will be loud and annoying:

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Another simple pattern with only narrow grooves:

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Next is a Bridgestone (very similar to Michelin design). I used a 1/32" blade, cut a diagonal in the center rib and siped the ribs next to the center rib. This netted a very impressive gain in wet traction with no increase in noise:

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And here is just me deepening the traction grooves on a steer tire. This tire is about 16" wide and terrible in rain, mud, snow. You may be able to tell that I also siped this tire. I followed the existing traction groove and used it as a template and cut it down to 2/32" less than the depth of the circumferential grooves

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I don't know how deep you can go with the Continentals, but I would think you could safely go 3/32" deeper than original. Try 2/32" first and probe the groove with a pick or something similar. You can always go deeper later. I would widen the circ. grooves, and on the "female puzzle pieces" only go as wide as the original grooves. You don't need to go wide there. I would also sipe, no matter what. Measure the new depth, make your siping blade about 2/32" shallower than that and sipe away! I assume you know that with your tool, you can just turn your grooving blade upside down and use it to sipe?

 

[MChrist]

I was doing research on different brands of tires for our trucks that require 19. 5s. I've seen Hercules brand, and they are cheap, but how good are they?? I came across this site and thought I would share:

http://www.interstarna.com/documents/tirereview2010.pdf

I've always felt Michelins were the best tire out there, and they are ranked at the top for most of the categories. Then go to the fuel efficiency category... number one by quite a margin, and Hercules at/near the bottom. Quality was also a big concern... and retread ability.
So the old adage proves true yet again... you get what you pay for!! I believe I'll stick with Michelin and continental when I have a choice.

 

[HBarlow]

Your link is interesting and informative.

I've tried to explain to TDR members discussing tire purchase many times that when cost per mile is calculated Michelin tires are cheaper than most tires, perhaps cheaper than all other brands, but my posts fall on deaf ears and closed minds. Many think cheap initial purchase price makes a better bargain and ignore short service life.

 

[MChrist]

Harvey, one more thing I found interesting about the difference in quality between tire brands. On the Michelin, I trimmed a groove about 3/8" wide and 2/32" deep. Those measurements are similar to a wide rubber band. Neither me nor anybody at work could pull that strip apart!! My guys that tried to pull this tiny strip apart are big, burly guys, too!! Out of curiosity, I grabbed a strip that I grooved out of a GEOSTAR tire, and it snaps with very little effort. The Kelly tires and Bridgestone tire rubber is similar to the Michelin, as in it's very tough. So far, only the GEOSTAR has proven itself to be sub-par.

When I'm ready for retreads on my 19. 5s, I will be requesting Michelin casings.

 

[HBarlow]

I'm a believer in Michelins.

All this discussion about regrooving and recapping tires giving them a second and third life makes me envy those with 19. 5s. My ordinary old light truck 17s can't be extended like that. Well, I suppose Bandag could cap them for me. I've thought of it but never tried recaps.

 

[Barry]

But Uncle Harvey,



When you were running high miles and heavy, it would have been worth it, but now that you no longer run that mission profile, would it make $ense to invest in 19. 5 wheels and tires along with all the paraphernalia to go along with that program?

 

[HBarlow]

Barry,

No, it wouldn't make economic sense and I won't change them now. Actually, I never thought it would make sense on a dually anyway. It makes good sense on a SRW truck for pulling heavy trailers but ordinary duallies have much more tire capacity than needed as delivered from Ram.

 

[Regcabguy]

I got 82K out of my Michelins on my Plymouth Voyager years ago. Naturally,I replaced my factory tires with Michelin Latitudes on our Pilot. They came with a 65K warranty. This set were down to 3/32 at 40K. Apparently Michelin has softened up their rubber somewhat. Going with Yokohama YK580's time. 60K warranty vs. 65 on the Michelin's but at a price reduction of $54 ea. Time will tell.



However,if I went to 19. 5's I'd still give Michelin a go.

 

[MChrist]

Barry, any updates, pictures, or measurements??

 

[RHestand]

I bought a set of six new, 19. 5" forged alum. wheels/lug-nuts etc, with 8R-19. 5 Samson (Chinese) tires, mounted, balanced and shipped on E-Bay for IMO, a good price.
After just over 20,000 on them I have no complaints except on two occasions going over the Rockies in snow, slush and ice, towing a trailer/car when it got pretty slippery.
In reading this thread I would like some advice on maybe siping or regrooving these tires to help this situation without adding road noise, which there is none now.
TIA, Ray

 

[MChrist]

RHestand, I looked up Samson, and I found pics that seem to look similar to the Michelin XZE, which I have pictured in post #50. Is that the tread pattern you have?