RMTDR and ATS

[GTX]

Hey Big A

I hope you can set this up for any weekend other than Sept 22 or 23. Gotta go racing that weekend .



This should be interesting. I need to do something soon.



Thanks

 

[Big A]

Originally posted by Bob Berends

Hey, quit pointing fingers.



I have DTT stuff and love it. I would love to find out that there is someone even better than Bill, and he is right here in Denver. (I am not holding my breath yet) I want this meeting to go forward and not get lost because of being worried that ATS may be better. If they are... ..... GREAT! Lets all go and see what the man has to offer.



I hope that was not too extreme. Bill, no offense, just your logic at work.



When is the get to gether?



LaserBob

Well said Bob. Now that everyone has spoke their mind,let's look forward to this meeting with ATS. Clint is going to figure out a weekend they can host it. I will post when the meeting will be.

Thanx

Big A

 

[K_Arts]

Clint... first off, I apologize that it has taken me so long to reply. I have been on a road trip.



Ok... now for the factual information. If you go back and re-read my posts you will see that there has been no direct negative comments made toward you, ATS or your products. Just some simple questions asked. So maybe instead of being defensive you could have stepped up to the plate and answered them??? Now to state for the record, NO, I am not trying to start any type of pis*ing match. Just trying to look out for my fellow RMTDR members. Is that a crime? I think not.



As I have stated in one of posts, I am willing to hear you guys out. I'm interested in knowing what you guys have done. So if your so interested in defending your territory, maybe you better chill out and go re-read my posts.



As far as your comment, about make sure I have factual information before I try to accuse you guys of anything... Well actually I do have lots of factual information from many different resources, but that's not the topic here. The topic is about the meeting. If you go back and re-read what I wrote, I basically stated that I don't want any of our guys to get caught up in a sales pitch, but yet they still need to hear you out before they plan to purchase anything. Is that wrong? No, I don't think soo... So make sure before you start getting defensive about anything that proposed questions are answered. As I have said above, you will find no direct negative comments towards your company or product... .



Ohhhh and about me referring to a stator as a strator... sorrrrryyyy, what do I look like a transmission tech?? So I put one too many "r's" into the word



One last thing. You stated the following:



Lets also clear something else up, we designed the new aluminum billet stator that is built for BD Power and also built a few test converters that Power Edge Products is using for high horse power. Lets also clear up that our converters for the 47-RE is tested to over 500 hp and 1361 foot pounds so lets get the facts before we make statements.



Sooo... should I not make public that if this system is tested for over 500 Hp... then why do I know some people that have already destroyed the new BD converter... and they have less then 500hp? Hmmm... again, no I'm not accusing anything, just stating FACTS!



A last comment about the torque converter, we offer several different stator combinations for our converters



Now when I asked why type of product you guys were using... this answer would have been sufficient. Soo why did it take so long to get to the point and answer my question? Geesh. . LMAO



Clint. . if you would like to discuss this further... please feel free to shoot me an e-mail, I'm always available. Again. . as I stated above. I'm not trying to start any type of Pis*ing match, so chill out and go have a cup of coffee.



Kev

 

[Reddog1]

diesel on the fire

I am a new-bee to both TDR and the Cummins. It is not my intent to pour diesel on the fire, but I appreciate KEV’s comments, and fail to see them as negative. I am a little surprised that Don Ramer was so defensive. I sure hope that is not the attitude shown to customers if a question or dispute arises.



I recently bought a ’96, 2500, 2w, with 115000 miles. With the exception of a Dual Range Transmission (set-up as an under-drive) and a D-CELERATOR Exhaust Brake, the Ram appears stock.



As you can see by the mileage, I will need a transmission before long. I have reviewed the DTT stuff and must admit I am impressed. I have not had the opportunity to see what Automotive Transmission Specialist has or get a feel as to how they treat their customers.





Wayne

 

[446]

I'm still not getting the whole picture on the aftermarket torque converter. I've done a little bombing and have about 65,000 miles on my truck with no problems. I really hate those 2000 rpm launches from every red light and will replace the converter eventually. The main focal point seems to be the stator and the fact that most companies before Bill K were remilling (is that a word?) the old stator for better performance.

Now it seems that newly designed milled stators are made from scratch. Now whats the difference between a new stator milled out of alluminum(steel?) and one welded ala Bill K. . I imagine that you could design either one to the specs that are needed.

Are the milled ones more likely to break?

I also gather that the lockup is important.

It seems the stall speed on the older units was too low and drivability sufferd. Any coments?

Just from listening to all of Bill K. s customers I'd say he has the best. I've been to ATS and they were freindly, informative and had a nice shop.

Without any badmouthing of other peoples products, are there any coments or advise?

I think I'm going to bring my chevy plow truck to ATS and see what they can do since I havn't gotten any other recomandations for a trans shop in Denver. Hope they dont kill me on the price.

 

[K_Arts]

I shot Bill K an e-mail asking if he could answer your questions. Being that Bill seems to work with different TC's daily and replaces the older milled stators on a daily basis, I thought that maybe he could explain what type of failures he is seeing, and possibly why the TC's are failing.



I do know that the milled stators can't hold the power advertised. That's why a lot of companys use products like the torqloc. They want to get that TC locked up so that it delivers all of it's power to the ground. But the mystery (lockup) switches have been proven to be very destructive.



Hopefully this helps.



kev

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Kevin for someone so young you sure worry a lot.



The main thing about milling the oem factory stator is the average consumer can only gaining 4-6% improvement. In a lot of cases the the consumer actually can lose what little efficiency the oem stator offers if milled incorrectly.



Primarily when companies advertise tc's boasting efficiencies of 96 or higher %, you must keep one very important thing in mind.



What these companies are not telling you is to achieve the advertised #'s is that they are measuring from a locked to an unlocked position while cruising at a steady speed.



In other words there is no load on the transmission or torque converter.



Now , there is no nice way for me to say this, but i havent run into too many Dodge Ram owners that had a problem with their tc's going downhill.



By milling the oem stators there isnt much they can change to the actual veins.

It still has the same # of veins, the same length of veins, and the same angle on the vein.



That is why i know the actual % of improvement a lot of these companies are claiming is BS.



Kevin, as for ATS claiming they designed BD's new converter, they should be ashamed of themselves. Even i feel sorry for Brian Roth with the canage of that fiasco. His dealers are not calling me because that tc is the greatest thing since sliced bread.



As far as Edge is concerned , they did try ATS, funny thing is their trucks now run mine. Even their 2002 truck they are waiting delivery on has an order in for a tc.



As for Piers, yes he too has tried ATS, and the new BD TC, he too now buys ours for his customers.



My best advice when companies are name dropping verify with the names used, do your home work to protect yourself.



Kevin , you guys should go to the meeting, i told Bob the same thing. I am not afraid of any competition.



My background is drag racing , without competition it is no fun.



What you need to keep in mind is you will run into companies that advertise they can run 500 hp with their lock up clutch system. That is not a new claim, Suncoast, Dunrite, Protorque, BD, they all claim this, you can just add ATS to the list i guess.



Lawrence at Diesel Dynamics has tested ours to 625 hp, so what!



It has no meaning in the real world that people drive in, tow their trailers with.



I have never used those numbers in my advertising, as i do not believe a dyno run or a quarter mile run is indicative of what a truck goes through in its everyday use.



Our personal truck has run a best to date of 13:72 on #2, and i certainly can get it to go faster. However that is not the power level we drive the truck continously on, i would never plan on towing with that power level.



I have always believed that if you tell the consumer the truth about what to expect they are less likely to do damage to their transmissions.



Same advive i gave you when you put your exhaust brake on.

You got the positives and the negatives on having the brake.

That is the way we choose to run our business.



So i say again you should go, keep an open mind, and listen to what they have to say.



Here is a little something you may want to keep in mind.



Lets use you for example, you are a computer specialist,

when you walk into a computer store you know what you want, no amount of double talk or jargon is really going to fool you.



When i walk into a computer store, i listen to what they have to say, if they are polite, curtious and sound like they know what they are saying , chances are i will buy something from them.



Two guys different background , same store, one is impressed by their presentation one is not.

 

[K_Arts]

Originally posted by Bill Kondolay

Kevin for someone so young you sure worry a lot.

Noo. . noo. noo. . It's now worrying Bill. I just couldn't answer 446's questions in full detail. I really appreciate the extremely valuable information that you supplied.



Yes you are 100% correct about your statement regarding my pacbrake. . but you also went through in detail and explained to me the good and bad about everything you did to my truck and then left the final decision up to me as to what I wanted you guys to do. That's why I trust you so much (well that and how totally cool your immediate and DTT family are!!!), your not afraid to tell people the entire truth! Thanks for the help Bill!



Of course I want to attend a meeting with these guys and see what they have to say, knowledge is the key. Anything I can learn makes me happy.



Kev

 

[Fred Swanson]

Wow, what a discussion. I would suggest that everyone keep an open mind if and when you do have a meeting. You know the history on the Dodge autos, just see what ATS has to offer. Then ask more questions. Better to be informed, and make a smart decision.

 

[K_Arts]

Originally posted by Fred Swanson

Wow, what a discussion. I would suggest that everyone keep an open mind if and when you do have a meeting. You know the history on the Dodge autos, just see what ATS has to offer. Then ask more questions. Better to be informed, and make a smart decision.

Fred is right... always keep an open mind.



BTW. . Fred, sorry I wasn't able to make it down to your neck of the woods last week. I was going to call you, but couldn't find your number. Due to the crisis on the East Coast, I had to cut my vacation a little short and get back home.



I am going to try and make the show in Vegas in December, so hopefully I will be able to swing by and we can play with this 4" exhaust.



Kev

 

[Fred Swanson]

Kevin, I have the entire 3 inch system off in 2 pieces. This will go right on yours. My number is on my site in my signature.



I may be going to whatever December event there is in Nevada.



We can have it on your truck in no time, too.

 

[ATSDiesel]

Originally posted by Bill Kondolay

Kevin for someone so young you sure worry a lot.



The main thing about milling the oem factory stator is the average consumer can only gaining 4-6% improvement. In a lot of cases the the consumer actually can lose what little efficiency the oem stator offers if milled incorrectly.



Primarily when companies advertise tc's boasting efficiencies of 96 or higher %, you must keep one very important thing in mind.



What these companies are not telling you is to achieve the advertised #'s is that they are measuring from a locked to an unlocked position while cruising at a steady speed.



In other words there is no load on the transmission or torque converter.



Now , there is no nice way for me to say this, but i havent run into too many Dodge Ram owners that had a problem with their tc's going downhill.



By milling the oem stators there isnt much they can change to the actual veins.

It still has the same # of veins, the same length of veins, and the same angle on the vein.



That is why i know the actual % of improvement a lot of these companies are claiming is BS.



Kevin, as for ATS claiming they designed BD's new converter, they should be ashamed of themselves. Even i feel sorry for Brian Roth with the canage of that fiasco. His dealers are not calling me because that tc is the greatest thing since sliced bread.



As far as Edge is concerned , they did try ATS, funny thing is their trucks now run mine. Even their 2002 truck they are waiting delivery on has an order in for a tc.



As for Piers, yes he too has tried ATS, and the new BD TC, he too now buys ours for his customers.



My best advice when companies are name dropping verify with the names used, do your home work to protect yourself.



Kevin , you guys should go to the meeting, i told Bob the same thing. I am not afraid of any competition.



My background is drag racing , without competition it is no fun.



What you need to keep in mind is you will run into companies that advertise they can run 500 hp with their lock up clutch system. That is not a new claim, Suncoast, Dunrite, Protorque, BD, they all claim this, you can just add ATS to the list i guess.



Lawrence at Diesel Dynamics has tested ours to 625 hp, so what!



It has no meaning in the real world that people drive in, tow their trailers with.



I have never used those numbers in my advertising, as i do not believe a dyno run or a quarter mile run is indicative of what a truck goes through in its everyday use.



Our personal truck has run a best to date of 13:72 on #2, and i certainly can get it to go faster. However that is not the power level we drive the truck continously on, i would never plan on towing with that power level.



I have always believed that if you tell the consumer the truth about what to expect they are less likely to do damage to their transmissions.



Same advive i gave you when you put your exhaust brake on.

You got the positives and the negatives on having the brake.

That is the way we choose to run our business.



So i say again you should go, keep an open mind, and listen to what they have to say.



Here is a little something you may want to keep in mind.



Lets use you for example, you are a computer specialist,

when you walk into a computer store you know what you want, no amount of double talk or jargon is really going to fool you.



When i walk into a computer store, i listen to what they have to say, if they are polite, curtious and sound like they know what they are saying , chances are i will buy something from them.



Two guys different background , same store, one is impressed by their presentation one is not.