Royal Purple or Amsoil

[EB]

I have been running Amsoil products for a number of years now and have never had an oil related problem at all. My last truck was sold at 416,000+ miles and my present truck (a 2003 model) now has over 173,000 miles. I use the by-pass setup and I change my oil at 75,000 miles. (only because I just can't stand it any longer) My oil analysis tell me it is still good to go, but I believe I have more than paid for that high dollar (as some people like to say) oil. Everyone has an opinion, but the Amsoil certainly works for me. I use it in everyplace you put oil in all my vehicles.

 

[EMD-Run8]

Flamin' A right on that!!

 

[jimnance]

Clearly from your reply you haven't done much research on the matter, so I wouldn't be throwing the word 'fact' around so loosely. . I've done plenty. I do regular oil analysis and the oil is in perfect condition. You can talk about 'chains' all you like, but I have a very high tbn, concentration of additives, and extremely low wear metals and soot. No reason to dump perfectly good oil.

As a matter of fact I'm actively involved in the trucking industry and work to keep up on the latest maintenance practices and research on lubricants. I've been in the transportation industry for over thirty years, and presently own a trucking firm with fifty units. I'm not an expert, but I'm no dummy either.



I've seen a lot of trucking companies go bankrupt. Lots of different reasons for that happening, but you learn from others mistakes.



Yes, we are running primarily the N14 version of the Cummins Diesel. It does vary in a number of ways from the version in our trucks. However, lubrication of the various brands of diesel engines vary very little. The big exception are engines which are now running EGR systems. They have to have specially formulated oil to handle the higher soot loads.



I'm glad you've had such good luck with your AMSOIL system. However, I'll stick with proven practices until substantial field experience suggests that synthetics are better and more cost effective.

 

[GaryCarter]

I would have to agree. Cummins, Volvo, DD, etc. are all about lowest cost of ownership when they're selling commercial. If they could do extended drains and save money, they would.



Mike

 

[amsoilman]

I would have to agree. Cummins, Volvo, DD, etc. are all about lowest cost of ownership when they're selling commercial. If they could do extended drains and save money, they would.



Mike

Here is a "SAE TECHNICAL PAPER" dated Oct 1995, you may want to read.



A Synthetic Diesel Engine Oil with Extended

Laboratory Test and Field Service Performance





ABSTRACT



This paper describes the engine test and extended oil drain field performance of new synthetic engine oil technology developed for use in North American low-emission heavy-duty Diesel engines. The resulting formulation utilizes an advanced additive system specifically tailored for synthetic base stocks which exceeds current industry and engine builder targets in critical performance tests. Use of synthetic base stocks allows the formulation of engine oils with a unique combination of performance characteristics, which include meeting SAE 5W-40 viscosity requirements for cold starting benefits while maintaining low volatility loss at high temperature for oil consumption control. In addition to meeting API CG-4, CF-4F, CF-2, CF, SH and EC requirements, this technology has also demonstrated exceptional performance in extended-length Diesel and gasoline engine tests. Furthermore, it has also performed very well in extended service interval field tests.

At drain intervals up to four times those normally recommended, excellent engine wear, deposit protection, and oil consumption control have been consistently demonstrated. Additionally, fuel economy benefits in excess of 4% relative to SAE 15W-40 conventional mineral oils have been documented.



The desire to reduce costs associated with the operation of heavy-duty diesel engines has prompted considerable interest in extending the mileage and/or time between engine and vehicle service intervals. Extended service intervals for engine and other vehicle lubricants offer the potential) for multiple cost benefits. Lower cost for consumable materials (lubricants and filters), reduced labor costs for scheduled maintenance, less out-of service time for engines and/or vehicles, and lower expenses for disposal of used oil and filters are several potential benefits that could be realized by extending service intervals. As operating costs rise, the incentive for fleet operators to extend engine service intervals increases. It is critical, however, that extension of engine service intervals does not negatively impact engine reliability and durability since increased repair costs and engine down-time would rapidly offset cost benefits gained by extending service intervals.



At the same time that engine operators are recognizing the benefits for extending service intervals, diesel engine manufacturers are producing updated emission controlled engines with significantly higher specific power output than the older engines they replace. Therefore, operating conditions for engine oils are likely to be more severe due to potentially increased thermal and load stresses. Engine builders and operators also expect improved durability from modern diesel engines, further increasing the performance demands on engine oil technology. Combining a move to extended oil drain intervals with the introduction of engines with higher power densities and longer service lifetimes increases the challenges for developing engine oils capable of providing the level of protection needed to prevent lubricant related engine problems.

The objective of the work described in this paper was to develop a high performance diesel engine oil with the capacity to provide the maximum level of engine protection at extended oil drain intervals.



There is much more, but very lengthy.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[jimnance]

Quote:



This paper describes the engine test and extended oil drain field performance of new synthetic engine oil technology developed for use in North American low-emission heavy-duty Diesel engines. The resulting formulation utilizes an advanced additive system specifically tailored for synthetic base stocks which exceeds current industry and engine builder targets in critical performance tests. Use of synthetic base stocks allows the formulation of engine oils with a unique combination of performance characteristics, which include meeting SAE 5W-40 viscosity requirements for cold starting benefits while maintaining low volatility loss at high temperature for oil consumption control. In addition to meeting API CG-4, CF-4F, CF-2, CF, SH and EC requirements, this technology has also demonstrated exceptional performance in extended-length Diesel and gasoline engine tests. Furthermore, it has also performed very well in extended service interval field tests.

At drain intervals up to four times those normally recommended, excellent engine wear, deposit protection, and oil consumption control have been consistently demonstrated. Additionally, fuel economy benefits in excess of 4% relative to SAE 15W-40 conventional mineral oils have been documented.





This is very interesting. If in fact engine oil drain intervals could be extended up to four times current levels, then why aren't engine manufacturers recommending synthetics for their engines? It would give them a significant marketing advatage.



The answer is actually several reasons. First, since this paper was published, oil drain intervals for conventional oils have doubled in part due to improved formulations. The " drain intervals up to four times those normally recommended" is now reduced to half or perhaps less than previous analysis.



Second, it is not clear from the paper what special formulation of synthetic oil was used for the testing. In particular, there is no indication of what the COST of the special oil might be.



In the ten years since this research was published I'm certain that the engine manufacturers would have made a concerted marketing effort to demonstarte that their engine was better because of the vastly extended oil drain intervals and cost savings if they existed.



Interesting that none of the manufacturers have chosen to do so.

 

[LightmanE300]

The reasons manufacturers don't recommend extended intervals is because they would be liable, leaving themselves open to a zillion warranty claims. The fact is that extended drain intervals aren't for the average user/owner, and "joe trucker" more than likely doesn't understand spectrographic analyses, or the things required to sucessfully use extended drains or bypass sytems. They are not a set it and forget it type of thing - which is all manufacturers will endorse. Bypass systems and extended drains just leave too much responsiblity in the user's hands for manufacturers.



Jim, by the way, this thread was about amsoil vs royal purple, both of which are synthetic oils. If they are so unproven and untested, and you don't use them, remind us all again why you are posting in this thread at all?

 

[jimnance]

Buffalo on post #10 started it. I just had to jump in at that point and put in my $. 02.



BTW, Joe trucker is not your typical trucker anymore. The majority of trucks these days belong to large fleets with sophisticated maintanance programs.



One problem may be that the typical trucker spends lots of time away from his fleet's home base. Royal Purple or AMSOIL is probably not available for your quickie oil change at most truck stops.



I'll stick with Delo because I can get it anywhere, and don't have to worry about oil analysis, etc.



I promise, this is my last post on this thread, but honest, I didn't start it.

 

[DSpencer]

Here's my . 02..... I have read. . seen... experienced enough information on this subject and will change my mind or worry or whatever when and only when I read a few studies that show that extended drains and synthetic oil do not work.

The poo-poo'ers of extended drains in my opinion have never offered studies to back up their claims of any higher chance of engine maintenance or oil related problems. My opinion only is that they are creatures of habit and grew up on regular drains and unless they read about it and are open minded they will never change.



I have seen examples from friends who have run it for years and read many examples of other people doing the same on this as well as other boards. As many people that are running it you think you would see at least a few that tell about how extended drains have caused this or that. Not having seen any, I conclude that there is at least not a high risk in doing it (I am).

I also feel better knowing that in the life of my vehicle I will have saved my planet several hundred quarts of needless used engine oil as well as the several quarts I would have spilled while changing it.



JMHO

 

[jimnance]

Suddenly changed my mind and broke my promise not to post to this thread again. I think I'll put Royal Purple in my '99 and see how long she'll run before death. Guess I'll have to install a by-pass filter system and do regular oil analysis. Maybe I'll see if I can become an AMSOIL dealer.

 

[LightmanE300]

Jim, while your sarcasm is disappointing and immature, maybe one day you'll actually look at the benefits of a bypass system and extended drains. I have done the research and the math, and I am saving money and time by using the system. I run mobil devac 1 oil, but like the Amsoil system. I personally do not agree with the way amsoil does business, however they do make some nice products. I'm not one of those guys who goes to bed with an amsoil catalog and puts it in every single thing they own, I pick and choose. Oil analysis reports don't lie. I would be willing to bet that my oil after 10k is in better shape than your '99 after 5k.



MOconnor - you are certainly ready for synthetic with that many miles. I would suggest your first synthetic interval be drained at half of your normal interval just because it will be cleaning out the deposits left by the dino oil. As far as gear lube goes, I tried the amsoil series 2000 75w90 but got some chatter from the rear lsd axle. I switched to mobil 1 75w90 synthetic and the problem went away. Several others have had problems with the gear lube, some haven't. Not worth the risk IMO.

 

[jimnance]

Quote:



Jim, while your sarcasm is disappointing and immature, maybe one day you'll actually look at the benefits of a bypass system and extended drains.



I accept the sarcasm remark with humility, as I have been known to make a remark know and then. The sarcasm was not pointed towards you, rather a comment towards the entire thread.



However, I'm extremely disappointed that you take some playful remarks and make a personal attack. Now THAT I FIND TO BE VERY IMMATURE.





If you are going to behave in that way may I suggest that you find some other forum more appropriate to making personal attacks?

 

[LightmanE300]

Now that's funny, act like I'm the one disrupting the thread. Where is this so called personal attack you talk about? If you look at my post, all I'm talking about is oil and bypass systems. I think it's time you let go of this thread Jim - how are you helping this thread or MOConnor at all, tell us that?

 

[jimnance]

I don't know where you come from, but calling someone "immature" for discussing a subject about automobiles is considered very impolite, at best, where I come from.



I don't need to comment any further, your actions speak for themselves.

 

[LightmanE300]

:-laf If you were simply discussing an automotive subject, you wouldn't have proven your immaturity. Your sarcastic post was basically an attempt to mock synthetic oil users and those who like bypass systems/extended drains. Again, lets get back to the original post, and discussing synthetic oils, as I've been trying to for the last 3 posts. Now Jim, again, do you have anything useful to contribute to this thread?

 

[jimnance]

Not to someone with an overgrown ego that is unwilling to consider an alternative idea.



I've made my point, I happen to think dino oil is more than adequate for our CTD's. Others have a different viewpoint. That doesn't make them good or bad. They simply have more confidence in synthetics. That's fine. We all spend our money in ways that make each of us satisfied.



As far as Royal Purple versus Amsoil, I group them together as pure synthetics. Although I quipped that I was going to use Royal Purple, absent any scientific evidence that one was better than the other I'd make my choice based on cost.

 

[RustyJC]

Rusty, I noticed in Your last reply that You use Delo 400 in your truck and synthetics in Your other vehicles. May I, respectfully, ask why You made that choice.

Because of the unique operating profile of my truck. I took delivery of my 2002 3500 in August, 2001 and it has less than 24,000 miles on it. It is used almost exclusively to tow our 5th wheel RV. We will hitch up and go out on a 500-1000 mile trip, then the truck will sit in the garage for 3-4 weeks (OK, I'll try to take it out to Lowe's or something on Saturday just to heat it up and circulate the fluids. )



Since my truck is overfueled, it generates more soot than a stock truck. In addition, condensation in the crankcase can be a problem here on the Texas Gulf Coast as the truck just sits in the garage. Now, with soot, water and combustion acids in the crankcase, I'm working the oil's detergent/dispersant package as well as the TBN package pretty hard. Therefore, I'll change the oil and filter about every 6 months just to flush the contaminants out of the engine - this works out to 3000-3500 miles on average.



In this operating profile, synthetics fail my cost/benefit test. I run Mobil I in my wife's 5. 9L (360 cid) Durango and Royal Purple in my Acura 3. 2TL-S, but both of these vehicles are driven daily in suburban Houston traffic as well as on highway/freeway runs. There, the synthetics make sense.



By the way, I've changed over to Royal Purple 85W-140 synthetic in the truck's rear axle since we tow HEAVY, and I've noticed a drop in temperature and noise. I haven't changed out the fluid in the NV5600 yet, but am considering the Redline MTL synthetic based on good results others seem to be having with it.



JM2CW YMMV



Rusty

 

[LightmanE300]

It's really hard to compare oil choices between 2nd and 3rd gen trucks. The HPCR of the third gen trucks makes them a lot easier on oil.



Rusty - have you done an analysis to actually see how much your oil is getting sooted? 3-4 weeks of sitting is really not long enough for significant buildup of acidity/water, especially considering that when you do drive it, you drive long hard trips which would certainly boil off any water that accumulated. In 2003 I only put 3900 miles on my mercedes, rarely driving it. I left the Delvac 1 in the case for 13 months and tested it. The oil looked great. Depending on how modded/sooty your truck is, you might be correct in your analysis to use dino in your cirumstances - however I don't believe that water/acidity are limiting factors in your case.

 

[RustyJC]

Rusty - have you done an analysis to actually see how much your oil is getting sooted? 3-4 weeks of sitting is really not long enough for significant buildup of acidity/water, especially considering that when you do drive it, you drive long hard trips which would certainly boil off any water that accumulated.

Nope. Oil and filter changes at 6 month intervals are really just a motivator for me to go over the truck and do the general maintenance and check-up items I need to do. I probably could go longer, but oil and filters are cheap insurance.



Again, just the way I do things. If someone else wants to do it differently, go to it! It's your money and your truck!



Rusty

 

[LightmanE300]

If the soot is building up quickly then you are taking the smartest route Rusty.