Safe to idle for 15-20 minutes at a time?

[Tuesdak]

I don't have to know what is a good oil or bad oil. I just have to read the amsoil website and catch up on all their videos.

And as for "knowing".... It is all pretty much opinion. Just because you like your UOA analysis from one oil, doesn't mean it is really any better than another. I am on my third crankcase of 100% (no added oil from other brands) Kendall Super D XA 15w 40. I liked what I saw from the KSDXA in terms of wear metals on my UOA. I did not like what I saw in terms of fuel dilution. But even though the viscosity was coming closer to a 10w 30, the wear netals tested low. I plan on testing again this fall. (Same oil)

Don't switch oil brands or types if you want to do UOA. For example switching to synthetic can shock some copper off the oil cooler and spike your numbers. I used to run what was on sale and it changed each month. Doing 4+ oil changes a month the variance made the trends difficult to read. There is just enough difference between oils, but, major difference to synthetic. Regardless a pending engine failure stood out in the mixed brand samples from a scuffed piston. I didn't say "better" oil: I said keeping the variables the same to better watch trends in UOA.

Fuel dilution is not the fault of oil. It's something like too much idle time, fuel leak into the crankcase, bad injector, stuck thermostat, short trips not getting the oil hot, excessive regen times, high biodiesel % in fuel...

 

[Newsa]

Don't switch oil brands or types if you want to do UOA. For example switching to synthetic can shock some copper off the oil cooler and spike your numbers. I used to run what was on sale and it changed each month. Doing 4+ oil changes a month the variance made the trends difficult to read. There is just enough difference between oils, but, major difference to synthetic. Regardless a pending engine failure stood out in the mixed brand samples from a scuffed piston. I didn't say "better" oil: I said keeping the variables the same to better watch trends in UOA.

Fuel dilution is not the fault of oil. It's something like too much idle time, fuel leak into the crankcase, bad injector, stuck thermostat, short trips not getting the oil hot, excessive regen times, high biodiesel % in fuel...

Good advice as always, JD..

And JR is correct. I have used redline and amsoil.

Think I will settle on the Triax for awhile and see how the oil trends go.

I realize that fuel dilution is not due to choice of oil. But fuel dilution was WHY I sent an UOA sample in to be tested.

I suspected fuel dilution and wanted to know how much viscosity was being affected.

They have a value test which tests fewer parameters in the oil. But had to go with the full UOA to get a fuel dilution and viscosity test.

If there were a problem, with wear metals, it would have shown more than 13 ppm iron. None of the other metals even showed up at all or more than a couple ppms.

 

[Newsa]

Yeah. My 8+% fuel dilution was probably making my 15w-40 closer to a 10w-30.
So it was still lubricating adequately and hence my wear metals were low. Iron was 11 ppm which is the lowest I've seen on any posted UOA. Some of the other wear metals were zero. Granted it was only 3600 miles vs 5000-15,000 that have been posted. My cold starts are 50°F-90°F, tho. Unlike some of you that have subzero starts part of the year. This will likely affect wear metal presence in oil analysis??

I changed it out for fresh 15w-40 just because to be safe.

Updating my previous post about fuel dilution. It was a shorter OCI. But i can gather from this data that regens were likely source of fuel dilution.

 

[Newsa]

I apologize to 12V. Full size image was not an option

 

[Cummins12V98]

I apologize to 12V. Full size image was not an option

At least you tried!

 

[TCDiesel]

Updating my previous post about fuel dilution. It was a shorter OCI. But i can gather from this data that regens were likely source of fuel dilution.

I've did Stationary De-soot and immediately change the Lube and never seen 8.4%, IMO the sample was a fluke. After A steady diet of OAs you will now for sure.

 

[Newsa]

I've did Stationary De-soot and immediately change the Lube and never seen 8.4%, IMO the sample was a fluke. After A steady diet of OAs you will now for sure.

Well, I'm going to start buying 5 gallon pails to save $ using a cheaper synthetic. So i will wait until i run a few sumps of the new stuff before i analyze again. I can safely say that if i had a fuel leak, it would show.

 

[JR]

Well, I'm going to start buying 5 gallon pails to save $ using a cheaper synthetic. So i will wait until i run a few sumps of the new stuff before i analyze again. I can safely say that if i had a fuel leak, it would show.

If you continue to trend your oil analysis, and continue to look for the best cost - benefit analysis AND are honest with your assessment, I'd wager you will come to the same conclusions that I have. Current CK4 spec is so robust that conventional oil will offer the same protection as synthetic given the required mileage/hour interval. You just won't wear it out so long as you follow the prescribed service intervals. UOA will confirm this if you remain open minded.

 

[Newsa]

If you continue to trend your oil analysis, and continue to look for the best cost - benefit analysis AND are honest with your assessment, I'd wager you will come to the same conclusions that I have. Current CK4 spec is so robust that conventional oil will offer the same protection as synthetic given the required mileage/hour interval. You just won't wear it out so long as you follow the prescribed service intervals. UOA will confirm this if you remain open minded.

With dino. Ck4 refers exclusively to the additives. .

I continue to believe that synthetics and a few select synthetic blends are worth a slight increase in expense. Buying in pails reduces the cost of packaging and buying an unadvertised but quality brand reduces what i pay for marketing. I believe the advantage in synthetics has to do with the facts that the actual oil quality reduces the percentage of additive in the oil. An additional advantage is the start uo lubrication is much better with synthetic than convemtional. Cj4 synthetics are better than Ck4 conventional oils.

Synthetics like amsoil, redline, and a few others sell themselves due to a long history of satisfied clientele, and cutting-edge performance.... Well outperforming their competitors when oil was not as good.

You once accused me of using boutique oils. I consider Schaffers to be a boutique oil on the same scale as the ones i have used. Not knocking Schaffes. Just saying you too use a boutique conventional oil.

 

[JR]

Just saying you too use a boutique conventional oil.

Schaeffer's is not a boutique oil, it is a commercial oil primarily sold in large quantities. If you buy in gallon increments it can be as costly as boutique oils but again that is not the intended usage. I have bought their oil through my cousins account for many years and have paid less per gallon than most over the counter conventional oils, and used them at significantly longer intervals.
That being said, since I bought my 14 with all its emissions glory and egr goodness (compared to my 98) I no longer see the benefit of using anything synthetic given the required service intervals. When I delete I may go back to extended intervals (and Schaeffer's). But with 15k/500 hours there is no advantage of using anything other than conventional. When you can buy Mobil Delvac 1300 for $6 per gallon and realize no appreciable wear metals or viscosity increase over the same mileage/hours through repeatable UOA's it is hard to justify anything else.
You don't have to take my word for it Newsa. Just Keep tracking them UOA's, and play around with some conventional. You'll see for yourself.

 

[Lynx0849]

I had some work done today by a guy with a 5500 and the hood had a label for certified clean idle. He was here for about 2hrs and it idled the whole time.

What is different from our trucks?



Pro

 

[Newsa]

I had some work done today by a guy with a 5500 and the hood had a label for certified clean idle. He was here for about 2hrs and it idled the whole time.

What is different from our trucks?



Pro

The difference is they payed for the certificate

 

[Newsa]

I've did Stationary De-soot and immediately change the Lube and never seen 8.4%, IMO the sample was a fluke. After A steady diet of OAs you will now for sure.

Stationary regen wouldn't cause oil dilution. It loads the engine quite a bit

 

[JR]

Pickups are exempt from the clean idle certification requirements. It relates to commercial vehicles (and C&C, I think) that prohibits any vehicle over 14k GVW from idling longer than 5 minutes. Without the certification trucks built after 2008 are required to have programming that shuts the engine off if stationary more than 5 minutes.

Its Just another law pulled out of the tree huggers rabbit hole compliments of California (CARB)

 

[TCDiesel]

Stationary regen wouldn't cause oil dilution. It loads the engine quite a bit

It takes 2-4 Gallons at 30-80 minutes elevated RPMs 1100. My guess 50% of that fuel is used for Cleaning the rest for combustion.

 

[Newsa]

It takes 2-4 Gallons at 30-80 minutes elevated RPMs 1100. My guess 50% of that fuel is used for Cleaning the rest for combustion.

OK, then it might create a bit of fuel dilution. However, it works the engine hard enough to evaporate a good percentage of the fuel blow by due to high temps.

I didn't detect any amount of fuel dilution when my truck went in for stationary regen in Oct 2017 (a little over a year ago).

But I have detected fuel dilution with nose and by observing the truck making oil when I drive in the city instead of taking the interstate.

The 8.4% might have been high. But was confirmed by the drop in viscosity. I would actually guess it was probably lower than 8.4%. Guessing closer to 5-6%

 

[gsbrockman]

That being said, since I bought my 14 with all its emissions glory and egr goodness (compared to my 98) I no longer see the benefit of using anything synthetic given the required service intervals. When I delete I may go back to extended intervals (and Schaeffer's). But with 15k/500 hours there is no advantage of using anything other than conventional. When you can buy Mobil Delvac 1300 for $6 per gallon and realize no appreciable wear metals or viscosity increase over the same mileage/hours through repeatable UOA's it is hard to justify anything else.

Maybe FCA’s stipulations regarding OCI’s is not the problem.

Maybe the problem is your use of the vehicle. What is the current drive hours and mileage?

Additionally......it is easy to justify synthetics, especially if one either resides in an area that will see 0*F or lower temps or will be traveling into an area with 0*F or lower temps.

Can you point me to an oil producer of 5W40 oil that is NOT synthetic?

 

[JR]

Maybe the problem is your use of the vehicle. What is the current drive hours and mileage?

Mostly all rural/highway driving, IE no stop/go or short trips. I don't tow nearly as much as you but do average at least once or twice a week wether it be the camper, my tilt deck, or helping my cousin. Planting and harvest time it gets worked nearly daily. I have no problems running the 15k/500 hr recommendation wether it takes 6 months or 9. My point above, which was not well articulated, was that between egr and the late injection event used for regens I would not risk running past the recommended intervals. I would not feel comfortable without continual UOA, and at that point why not just change the oil and be done. Which is why it is hard to justify synthetic from my perspective. You bring up a very valid point about the cold weather and one that affects me a handful of times a year. I've always used Schaeffer's 15w40, technically a semi synthetic but had better CCS than most 5w40. Going forward with conventional I will most likely wire in a small pan heater with my block heater. I have the luxury of being plugged in every night on a timer, 1-2 hours is all it takes. We have done this on our cranes (all with CTD) the last 20 years and have had no issues. Many of these machines are high hour engines.

 

[Newsa]

Mostly all rural/highway driving, IE no stop/go or short trips. I don't tow nearly as much as you but do average at least once or twice a week wether it be the camper, my tilt deck, or helping my cousin. Planting and harvest time it gets worked nearly daily. I have no problems running the 15k/500 hr recommendation wether it takes 6 months or 9. My point above, which was not well articulated, was that between egr and the late injection event used for regens I would not risk running past the recommended intervals. I would not feel comfortable without continual UOA, and at that point why not just change the oil and be done. Which is why it is hard to justify synthetic from my perspective. You bring up a very valid point about the cold weather and one that affects me a handful of times a year. I've always used Schaeffer's 15w40, technically a semi synthetic but had better CCS than most 5w40. Going forward with conventional I will most likely wire in a small pan heater with my block heater. I have the luxury of being plugged in every night on a timer, 1-2 hours is all it takes. We have done this on our cranes (all with CTD) the last 20 years and have had no issues. Many of these machines are high hour engines.

Your Schaffers semi syn is probably not that much different than my kendall super D XA semi syn. Why challenge my use of synthetics and semi syns?

You are not using dino as you falsely claimed

 

[JR]

Your Schaffers semi syn is probably not that much different than my kendall super D XA semi syn. Why challenge my use of synthetics and semi syns?

You are not using dino as you falsely claimed

Nothing false about my statement. I ran my last batch of Schaeffer's through my truck when I first bought it. Been Mobil Delvac 1300 since.