Sayonara Edge EZ-- what next?

[Hohn]

It used to be so simple. The plan was to upgrade the EZ to a Comp (insert comment about doing it right the first time).



Then along come all these other options.



I thought about the Comp and didn't like that Edge's reliability is sucking since they moved production to China. I went through two EZs in two years.



I thought about the TST and didn't like the lack of bottom end.



I thought about the MAD CATCHER and like it, but a) want to keep the same ECM, and 2) don't want to have the truck down two weeks.



If the CATCHER could be achieved in add-on form (read: no down time), I'd have my mind made up.



A pro to the TST is that it compliments the MAD ECM quite nicely. I like the reliability (and american make) of the TST, but would prefer to have more response. The TST has no timing, and I miss it-- without the EZ, my truck feels even more sluggish, and EGTs are up about 75°.



I have about $650 to play with. . Maybe I should sell the DD2s also and go with Mach 4s?? Now THERE's an idea



I'm looking for suggestions, here. Am I making too big a deal with the Comp's unreliability or my other objections to the other options listed??



Justin

 

[KatDiesel]

Buy a spare ECM and ship it off. Or I believe you could buy a MAD ECM outright from Bob W. It can easily be accomplished with no downtime, just have to explore some options. Keep your orginal ECM stock and on the shelf. With the MAD ECM no worries about needing a "boost fooler" if you drop the EZ.

 

[MKoth]

What about a VanAaken timming box?



I ran with just a TST for about 3 months, and was some what happy with it, but the power wouldn't come on untill about 4-6 psi of boost. I added an EZ to try and help fuel milage some, and was impressed by the extra low end power it added, but, if I start to have issues with reliabilty, I plan on ditching it and going with a MAD ecm.

 

[RJPotts]

If you don't want to buy one outright (From Bob W. was it?) You could go to a junk yard and get one off of a wrecked truck. I don't believe it has to be the same year, same truck, or anything like that, just a 24v truck.

Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter.

You could do that, ship it off and have no down time also. Which ever one is cheaper I would do since you end up with the same thing in the end.

-R. J.

 

[jwilliams3]

Justin,

Why are you asking us??

I was under the impression that you knew everything... . :-laf

 

[Hohn]

I know everything I know, not what I don't.



I might not even know what I don't know.



And if I didn't, how would I know?



Justin

 

[Hohn]

What about a VanAaken timming box?



I ran with just a TST for about 3 months, and was some what happy with it, but the power wouldn't come on untill about 4-6 psi of boost. I added an EZ to try and help fuel milage some, and was impressed by the extra low end power it added, but, if I start to have issues with reliabilty, I plan on ditching it and going with a MAD ecm.

Well, if my post wasn't clear, this is about PROGRESS. Meaning: moving forward.



I don't consider selling an EZ (at a loss, of course) to buy a Van Aaken (essentially the same thing) quite a step forward, capeche?



IOW, I didn't part with a timing box to try another timing box-- though Quad's timing box has me curious.



I am leaning more and more towards an ECM.



jlh

 

[HeavyHauler]

From what I've gathered about a Mad ECM, the whole idea behind them is improved drivability and not a significant increase in horsepower. Apparently, they only give you another 30-45 horsepower which is probably a little less than what the EZ actually puts out. You say you don't want another timing box, but isn't that what the Mad ECM is essentially? I believe that timing is the only thing that it adjusts.



I could be way off base here - I've never read so much about a product and know so little about it. Over 1,000 posts of BS and I haven't even seen the first figure for a price or a comprehensive list of its features.



You've got a Dodgezilla right Justin? Bob Wagner dynoed 401 hp with the Mad ECM, Mach 4's and a Dodgezilla.



Good luck.

 

[Boondocker]

Justin,



So far your stock clutch has held up, mine as well. But I can't help but think that if I add more power, especially more low-end punch, my stock clutch will be history. I'm working on budgeting about a grand more than the $650 you mentioned just so I can handle power upgrades. Nevertheless, I'm still thinking about the best power upgrades for me. I have this target of 400 HP, just a nice round number. My criteria is to maintain fuel economy and reliability, pass state smog emissions test, improve towability (read - controllable EGT), and cop an occational power rush. Is that too much to ask for? It seems reasonable that having adjustability would give me the best of the different worlds of my various requirements. Did mention I have a fear of needles piercing my wire?



Neil

P. S. I guess that 8G windfall never fell in?

 

[Hohn]

Neil-- the 8g actually came in-- into my wife's responsible hands where it went to everything OTHER than bombs :{ What can I say when she wants to pay things off instead of letting me play? As much as I wanted the bombs, I couldn't argue with her because she was doing the right thing. I admit being a little jealous sometimes of those guys who have the freedom to make bad decisions and live beyond their means if they chose. Not me! I married woman with a spine Anyway... .



I don't consider the ECM to be a timing box, like some others do. If I did, I wouldn't have sold my EZ. I consider the ECM to be a totally unique product, as it does what no other box does. This is because it is uniquely positioned by being the ECM, instead of an add-on trying to manipulate or fool the ECM. It's good to be king, so to speak.



Something else that occurred to me-- what if my truck got totalled? With an add-on box, I could take it off and go back to stock easily. Not true of the ECM, as that's something the truck needs to even run. Having a spare changes this, but I risk losing my cruise control flashing an ECM other than my stocker.



Then I come back to the Comp, which does timing and fuel for not much money. The only other way to get BOTH is to shell out a LOT more money stacking different combos of boxes.



hmmm...

 

[Big P]

Right now I'm running just the Blue Chip FMS while I'm waiting for my CATCHER to get here, it will be here tommorrow though. :-laf Anyway, I just replaced an Edge Comp with the Blue Chip, and I am perfectly happy running around with just the fueling feature of the FMS. I don't miss the Comp at all. Maybe I had a weak Comp, but the FMS I believe makes more power on my truck, judging by SOP meter :-laf , egt gauge, and boost gauge. The FMS definetly has a higher price tag, but the features and the smoothness of the power is no doubt worth it! Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't recommend the Comp. I bet though, that your DD2's and a CATCHER would make an awesome USEABLE power combo!

 

[MKoth]

Well, if my post wasn't clear, this is about PROGRESS. Meaning: moving forward.



I don't consider selling an EZ (at a loss, of course) to buy a Van Aaken (essentially the same thing) quite a step forward, capeche?



IOW, I didn't part with a timing box to try another timing box-- though Quad's timing box has me curious.



I am leaning more and more towards an ECM.



jlh

I guess I was thinking about the reliabilty issure, and the money you have to work with. IMHO more reliabilty=a step forward.



Plus, like stated above, there is a good chance that a Comp, or a TST box will over power the stock clutch, and then you are way out of your planned spending range. The ecm would be a good first step, but from what my understanding, it doesnt provide much more power then what an EZ or VA box would do.



I just wish someone would develop a box that allows user control of both timing and fueling on the fly.

 

[Beast2B]

Check with Bob W, he MIGHT have a loaner that would work to try it. I bet he would buy it back if you ain't happy, just get it clarified first! I kept my stocker and had them burn a different unit for me, all functions work fine.

The driveability is the key, as you've read a hundred times in every MadECM thread. I just got a chance to tow my toybox (empty at 7500lbs) and MAN, IT FLAT RIPS! no Comp needed for towing with my mods, I'll be towing heavy (12k) this weekend in the hills of the Sierras, no comp, so i'll let you know.

 

[Hohn]

I guess I was thinking about the reliabilty issure, and the money you have to work with. IMHO more reliabilty=a step forward.



Plus, like stated above, there is a good chance that a Comp, or a TST box will over power the stock clutch, and then you are way out of your planned spending range. The ecm would be a good first step, but from what my understanding, it doesnt provide much more power then what an EZ or VA box would do.



I just wish someone would develop a box that allows user control of both timing and fueling on the fly.

Your point is well taken. I share your wish for a user-adjustable (in the cab) timing AND fueling box. Why can't someone build a box with a knob that allows us to adjust timing with a twist of a knob?



Reliability IS important. Your are wise to keep that a top priority. I'm not sure that a wire-tap box (used in moderation) really affects reliability when fuel pressure and such are up to snuff.



The appeal of the ECM is not in HP numbers-- at least to me it isn't.



Justin

 

[Boondocker]

Justin,



Might as well sell the DDIIs and get the F1 Mach ? you always wanted.

That option should be within your current budget.



Neil

 

[twopipes]

You said: I thought about the MAD CATCHER and like it, but a) want to keep the same ECM, and 2) don't want to have the truck down two weeks.



I have a MAD ECM and kept my OEM ECM. You don't have to give it up and there's zero downtime.



Boy, am I happy. Oo.

 

[Hohn]

Justin,



Might as well sell the DDIIs and get the F1 Mach ? you always wanted.

That option should be within your current budget.



Neil

BINGO!!



It's going to be Mach 4s. Can't go bigger with an HO



I'm deferring my electronics decision for a bit.



jl

 

[Beast2B]

I talked to DonM about that Mach4 limit for the ETH trucks. He said you won't see any PEAK hp increase, but you will see a larger area under the curve. Not that it makes much diff for a street driven truck, but that was the caveat from the man himself.

Any plan for a turbo upgrade? Me thinks you'll get some hot EGTs with the HX and 4s...

 

[Hohn]

Yes, I'll be pretty limited until I can get the airflow squared away. Definitely going to have to drive by the pyro. NO problem.



For airflow, I'm considering the new BB charger from DD (how's that for awkward?). It's at the top of the list, as it will take me all the way to my HG limits.



The other contender in my mind is the VGT from ATS. When I talked to Clint, he said that the thing can get as small as 4cm on the turbine side!! In testing, that gave them 3-4psi of boost-- AT IDLE!!



Now, if the price on this ATS VGT is reasonable (say under $1800), it would CERTAINLY be a lead contender for me.



Now, combine that incredible low-boost fueling of the MAD CaTCHER ECM, with the response of the VGT. Can you say INSTANTANEOUS response???



I would have to think that a combo of ECM/Mach4s/VGT charger would be just about unbeatable onthe street. I can't imagine anything that would yield more area under the curve right where you want it-- on the bottom end.



This would be my ideal-- to be able to make copious amounts of TIRE smoke, with little to no ENGINE smoke. I want my truck's smoke to be burnt rubber and nothing else.



JLH

 

[Hohn]

UPDATE: The ATS Aurora 5k VGT turbo is $2788 for my truck, compared to $1695 for the DD ball bearing charger. Both will exceed my HG limitations. Both are also much more efficient, so should allow more HP at lower boost levels. I figure my stocker HG with ARP studs should hold anything *I* will ever throw at it.



I'm going to have to stew on the cost-benefit analysis of the two chargers. Besides, it's going to take me quite a while to save the $$ to where this is even an issue for me Wife won't let me incur even short-term debt to BOMB away, so I'll be updating next summer perhaps on my air situation.



Justin