Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Scheid vs. Industrial Injection

[AFarmer]

I'm looking at the Lightning Pump and the Hot Rod. Anybody running the Scheid pump or HR pump and can say any differences between the two? I haven't heard much about the Scheid pump other than the TS truck switching from HR to Scheid. Which pump will make the most HP? Which pump is in it for the long haul?? Sorry for so many questions but I'm sure that several folks want to know what's going on with both of these pumps?

 

[CGlickert]

It seems to be a much harder question than what I would have thought.



C Glickert

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

AFarmer,



The Scheid Lightning pump is considered on off-road pump meaning sled pulling or drag racing. For those reasons it does not come with the standard one year warranty that the standard Scheid pumps do. The warranty becomes yours if the pump wire is tapped on any of thier pumps. Don't know about the Industrial Injection pumps. I have the Blue Chip FedEx pump, don't think it was built for power though.



Trent

 

[Bob Wagner]

I believe Scheid actually dyno's test's their pumps.

 

[SLJolley]

We have used alot of II Hotrod pumps and they have always worked very well for us. I'm pretty sure that the Industrial Injection pumps come with a 1 year warranty unless the wire is tapped.

 

[AFarmer]

I know for a fact that II's pump comes with 1 year even if the wire is tapped - at least that's what they told me when I talked to them. Scheid's pump comes with a 2 year warranty but I couldn't tell you about the tapping of the wire stuff. I just want to know which pump pushes the most fuel which should produce, in theory, the most hp. I don't know about you guys but I would like to know why the TS performance truck switched from a HR pump to a Scheid pump and whether or not it made a difference.

 

[DPS]

My personal opinion is that you need to determine which electronics you are going to use and find out whose pump works best with what box. . I know that as far as dyno numbers on a stock truck scheid tends to make more hp than other pumps, not just II's pumps. I know that we have tried both and at high rpm the scheid pump runs better, but doesn't always have the greatest idle.



Josh www.dieselperformancesolutions.com

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Are *any* of the rebuilders NOT using the "FEDEX" electronics modules at this point? I would think there were none of the original modules still around - or that any rebuilders would WANT to install them in a rebuilt.

 

[AFarmer]

I guess, judging by the response, that not many people are going to say anything positive about either pump. What's up with that??

 

[SLJolley]

I guess, judging by the response, that not many people are going to say anything positive about either pump. What's up with that??

I posted a good reply about II HotRod Pumps. They have worked very well for us.

 

[rweis]

Just my thoughts,



I would not want a pump that is maxed out to the limit, so fine tuned it BREAKs $$$$. $$. I want a nice detuned pump that will LAST with F4's (or whatever injector) and the Smarty (do not screw with the VP44 electronics).



I would not tap a pump wire. Warrantee. Do we REALLY know what it is doing when the wire is tapped? Exactely what happens to the electronics with a tapped wire?, and is it within range of that electronic component to do that?



I would change injectors and put a Smarty (ECM electronics) on it. Read the miles of post of tap or not to tap, do they warantee it if the wire is taped? etc etc etc, why not just do injectors and quit jerking the solenoid and the other internal electronics around, that is a major cause of failure. Let the da. . pump , pump!



I would ask what is REBUILT? There was a thread about rebuilts changed the advance piston system from brass to steel so it would wear better. What is different in the electronics?, which electronics?, there is a pump control module, there is an advance module, and I think I remember one other electronic module (I do not have my book on the VP44 here), what is done to the vane pump?, are all the check valves replaced?, what about the pistons?, solenoid?, and a 1000 other components.



I think it is splitting hairs on the major rebuilders about exactely what they change. Scheid or II is not going to be in business long if they do not rebuild to the best of their ability at the price. I would even consider having a pump rebuilt especially for me and not go with the least cost rebuild, but go with the very best rebuild possible. The very best rebuild is going to cost more of course, and it should. Maybe they should offer two different levels of rebuild, standard and maximum? They have to stay in business so pay them for what they do!



Now that you have your new pump, take care of it. Lubricated fuel (every tank full), NO free water (yep you probably have to add a much better water seperator and filter), keep the fuel temp down as much as possible (other threads on that), keep the fuel temp minimum so it does not gell, keep the lp (whatever you use) up in the 14# range (Bosch specs) and feed the flippen VP44 with GOOD pressure AND GOOD volume.



Yep you have to rebuild most of the fuel system to do the above. DC did a **** poor job on the fuel system, but ... . YOU own it now! so go fix it if you are going to keep it.



It is a SYSTEM, not just a VP44.



I'll go sit down, thanks for the soap box,



Bob Weis

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

ALL good comments Bob - yeah, since *I* have a rebuilt VP-44 on it's way from II to keep as a spare, I too wonder exactly what, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, gets changed in EVERY VP-44 they (and OTHER rebuilders) rebuild - and WHICH parts are purely "optionally" replaced, depending on the judgement of the guy doing the rebuild.



Do ALL the electronics get replaced, or only the ones actually failed - and do they get replaced with the FEDEX modules, or is there still a less reliable (and CHEAPER!) module still available that is used if the FEDEX one is not specified?



As far as the "extra strain" on a VP-44 caused by increased fueling - sorta seems to me that the same GENERAL increased strain would be pretty much the SAME on the VP itself, regardless of whether the initial command to increase fueling comes normally from INSIDE the VP, or from OUTSIDE by use of modified fueling programming - the electronic and mechanical operation and stress placed upon the VP-44 would SEEM to be about the same either way, since the actual implementation of the increased fueling command STILL has to occur WITHIN the VP-44...

 

[mgoncalves]

Over a year and 20,000 miles on my II HRVP. I've been nothing but happy with it so far. It has already made it further than what some people get out of replacement VP's. On my truck, this pump is fantastic, and even more so with injectors.



When I first got this pump, I was having some problems, so I sent it back to Brady. He bench tested it as is, tore it down for inspection, rebuilt with entirely new parts, bench tested it extensively, and sent it back, all at no charge to me. There was nothing wrong with the pump, it turned out to be my APPS, which I was able to diagnose with Brady's suggestions. That is very good service if you ask me.



I don't know anything about Schieds pump, I'm sure it's good as well. Most, but not all people that doubt the HRVP's , have no experience with them.



PS; My pump had a standard one year warranty, as long as the pump wire was not tapped.



Matt

 

[AFarmer]

When you're in the game of big power and pushing everything point of pure efficiency - almost to the point of breaking, nothing makes a difference. I don't care if the pump is pushed to its absolutel limit. If it last six months and makes me 700 or better on No. 2, fine with me - I'll buy another one. From looking, seems like II is the most popular but that doesn't always mean the best. I daily drive my truck but I didn't start this to stop before it was finished nor did I start it to be timid with it. Rweis. . I'm pretty sure I know how to take care of my pump. My current pump has 143k on it and has been run like hell for the last 43. Warranties do apply to these pumps with the wire tapped as long as the electronics don't fry - risks we all take em. Anyway, 'splitting hairs' may be the difference between winning and losing - which do you prefer??

 

[jwilliams3]

Sounds like someone needs to dyno both pumps on a stock truck to settle this one.

 

[AFarmer]

That's exactly what I would love to do. Both pumps on the same dyno under the same conditions with the same injectors and see which one really has the bragging rights of more power.

 

[CGlickert]

yes yes yes

 

[elandon1201]

I have not been on the dyno yet. But I replaced my dead unit with the II HRVP and i could not be happier, the power feels great and i have not even hooked up the pump wire on the comp.

 

[SConklin]

I had two II HRVP's, one which was rebuilt twice, with different problems on both. Each time, even if the pump was installed enough to run the truck around the block to test it out, it never quite worked right, and II always found a reason to get out of the warranty for some BS reason. Now I have a 12v engine, because I got tired of removing and installing VP44's (around 5 times, for various reasons). That's with a FASS installed too. I don't know if the HR was more sensitive, or if it's just the fact that all VP44s are total crap in general (which I firmly believe they are, from experience). Either way, don't fall for the "1 year warranty" BS, not to mention some internal mistakes souring relations with PDR that I caught wind of at the time (although I admit, it's just heresay). If I had it to do again, I think I'd go with Scheid's. Scheid's is arguably the #1 diesel fuel injection shop in the world, with a long list of credentials, testimonies, and trophies to back it up (and at least they're honest about their warranty upfront!)

 

[GCULP]

I don't know about you guys but I would like to know why the TS performance truck switched from a HR pump to a Scheid pump and whether or not it made a difference

seem pretty simple to me, because they paid TS more to run their pump than HR.