Serpentine belt....Bad Luck = Good Luck??

[seafish]

So only yesterday I started up my truck with 54k miles on it, and heard a slight whining,purr which I knew to immediately to most likely be the serpentine belt or one of the pulleys it is running on. I was only driving around the property in order to move equipment and trailers around and so made a note to check it at the end of the day. Well it was dark by the time I had finished, so this morning when I started up I popped the hood to try to pinpiont it more. Check the belt, it was riding fine, looking fine , though it did feel just a bit slack to to me. Decided that I would park it down at the garage at the end of today, and use a stick or stethoscope to try to pin point which pulley was bad, and then order some parts in the morning, BUT .....



I also decided that I could use the truck to do a dump run as the belt looked fine, and the whine was not terrible and I wanted to clear out some junk before the rains really hit.



Well, just AFTER finishing loading the truck, of course, but just BEFORE I drove off, I was taking a quick whizz, when I heard a quiet but definite diffrence in the engine noise. I realized quickly that the noise was the belt shredding, RAN back to the truck (probably got a few drops on my pants leg in my haste:-laf:-laf) to turn it off and popped the hood...



WOW--The belt which had looked normal only a half hour earlier was now 1/4 shredded as it ran off the front of the alternator pulley. BUMMER, but could have been much worse if it had happened AFTER I had left, OR if I hadn't stoppped to take a leak with the truck idling, I probably would not have heard it from inside the cab, though of course as the mighty CTD died on me, I certainly would have figured it out. STILL, no foul and no harm done, as I was only 300 feet away from ny garage, only now with a loaded truck. Decideid to drive it back in, just as I got headed inside, I heard more shredding, so I killed the motor and coasted in. When I got out to check, over half the belt was gone!!



Since I do not want to run my engine any more, I can't necessarily tell whether it was the belt tensioner pulley that is gone bad, or another pulley. SOOOOOOO... my question is this--



How likely is it that ANOTHER pulley other then the belt tensioner was causing the belt to ride forward and cause the whining that I heard????



ALSO, If it turns out that it was the tensioner that failed, is it better to replace it with a Mopar unit or the Gates that Genos sells. I seem to remember that some people have had problems with repeat Belt Tensioner failure. Was there a bad run of them, or something??



Thanks for feedback on Belts and Tensioner asssemblies AND advice on checking the other pullies now that I can't run the engine. Speaking of which, my LAST question is...



Does anything TERRIBLE happen to our mighty CTDs if the serpentine belt breaks DURING operation??



Thanks for your time!

 

[Bob4x4]

When the belt breaks you loose the water pump,and no brake or steering assist

 

[TCDiesel]

Most Gates stuff is made in China. . I like Genos and buy stuff from them regularly but was disappointed when I order a water pump from them (the price was right) it was a Gates pump. I try hard to say away from China/Mexico made product ( at times you have no choice unfortunately) I will keep the pump as my personnel backup. I leave the China/Mexico up to the owner's choice. We get paid the same regardless of the quality.

 

[steved]

Three things I would check... tensioner, tensioner pulley, and the idler pulley above the fan support bearing.



I might also inspect the alternator support bracket to ensure its not loose or broken... there were a few early 3rd gens that had the bracket break.

 

[seafish]

Thanks for the responses...

Steved, I checked all the points you suggested, and while the alternator bracket is fine, the idler pulley definitely wiggles side to side over 1/8". The tensioner pulley also feels as if it has a little play, but it is hard to tell with the belt on. In any case, I looked over my warranty info, and it seems as if all the parts should be covered by warranty, hopefully inclusding the serpoentine belt, since it's failure was due to failure of parts that are covered. So THAT means more MOPAR for me.

Thanks for all the responses and useful info!

seafish

 

[baur]

For what it's worth, less than 5k after I had a similar episode to yours (at 94k miles), my water pump went in a big way. It would be worth a careful check.

 

[seafish]

Andres, all the more reason that I am glad I caught it before the belt actually broke!!



Final update, it turns out the alternator pulley was also bad.

In fact, dealer blamed it for the belt failure, BUT also replaced the belt tensioner/pulley and idler pulley and serpentine belt, ALL under the MaxCare warranty.



I paid a $100 deductible, otherwise would have been over $600. Oo.



Thanks for all the advice and info.

 

[steved]

So in other words, they didn't know what caused the problem and threw parts at it seeing which on stuck.



They were guessing. Which worked out to your benefit.

 

[Regcabguy]

Andres, all the more reason that I am glad I caught it before the belt actually broke!!



Final update, it turns out the alternator pulley was also bad.

In fact, dealer blamed it for the belt failure, BUT also replaced the belt tensioner/pulley and idler pulley and serpentine belt, ALL under the MaxCare warranty.



I paid a $100 deductible, otherwise would have been over $600. Oo.



Thanks for all the advice and info.

You must have had it towed in. Which dealer do you use up there?

 

[seafish]

Hi Dave--



The guys at Sport Dodge in Fort Bragg have been really good to me... it's a family owned business. Their diesel truck mechanic also drives a CTD!! They also just installed my upgraded Thuren trackbar under warranty. I bought the bar, but they did the install. Truck sure does drive nice again, particularly with the Toyo OC AT 285/75/17 E that you recommended--Oo.



I do go to Lithia in Santa Rosa for my oil changes, but that's because the truck came with a liftetime oil change agreement from the previous owner. ($550 paid for by the original owner, transfered to me when I bought the truck with 15k miles on it) They change the oil/filter for me every 3000 miles, at no cost to me. It's true they are using the ULSD compatible CJ-4 oil, while I would rather use the CI4+, but at those change intervals I do not see how that could make any difference in terms of engine longevity. It sure is convenient, as I do need to get down to Santa Rosa every once in awhile anyway.

 

[seafish]

So in other words, they didn't know what caused the problem and threw parts at it seeing which on stuck.

They were guessing. Which worked out to your benefit.

Actually, while the truck was here in my shop, based on the good info I was getting here, I found the loose belt tensioner, and also idler pulley. I did check the alternator bracket, which was fine, but did not check the pulley cause I thought I had already found the causes of the problem in the idler pulley and tensioner. When I called them on Monaday to schedule for Wednesday, I told them what parts they need to order to have on hand (they are a tiny dealership and don't stock many parts at all)--It's actually a good lesson for me!!

Anyway, after I had it towed in and they removed what remained of the belt, they also found the bad alternator pulley as they checked for causes. Had to wait an extra 2 days to pick up my truck so that they could get the alternator pulley in. In any case, it defintely turned out to my benefit, though, to have the extended MaxCare warranty as it has now just about paid for itself in only one year since I bought it. I mean, I hope nothing else goes wrong (RIGHT?!) but there are still 45k miles and 2 plus years left on the warranty.

 

[Shadrach]

The Idler pulley has been superseded up several times by Cummins. The Cracked alt bracket was only on early 03 models like mine - it was still on there when I bought it this summer, and s/s up to the newer style. I have seen lots of belt tensioner pulleys go cockeyed so I have always changed the tensioner as an assembly. I priced out the Dayco one and it was more expensive than the Cummins one which is made by Dayco anyway. Go Figure? Since I am going to be rebuilding the engine on my 03 I will change all these items. I don't want a break down in the mountains when camping with my family.
Shadrach

 

[brods]

... ... Anyway, after I had it towed in and they removed what remained of the belt, they also found the bad alternator pulley as they checked for causes. ... .

Did they say what was wrong with the alt pulley? Was it just to switch you from the standard pulley to the overrunning one or did the original pulley actually fail somehow?

 

[seafish]

Did they say what was wrong with the alt pulley? Was it just to switch you from the standard pulley to the overrunning one or did the original pulley actually fail somehow?

Brods, I am not sure... they did not mention anything except that the alternator pulley was bad and had caused the failure; I picked up the truck aftre hours, so was not able to ask my usual slew of questions as to what they did to my truck.



HOWEVER, just now looking at my service reciept, I notice part#5183490aa, which is the upgrade alternator pulley associated with TSB# 09-004-06, which is the overrunnning alternator pulley TSB. So I think that you are right, and they did the TSB as part of my original complaint of the serp belt jumping off. That being said, I KNOW the idler pulley above the fan was loose too, and it felt like the tensioner as well. Which one casued my problem, I don't know for sure, but it sure feels good to know that they replaced all three... Oo.



Thanks for the additional info, if you hadn't said anything, I wouldn't have known what they did to my truck, and probably would not have even asked why they replaced the alt pulley, they simply insisted that it was the cause of failure, without telling me about the TSB.