Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Settle a discussion

[DVolk]

I commited on a Facebook page that a 98 12 valve was not all that rare of a truck . The discussion went to when the model year ended . I said it ended in June of 98 he says Jan of 98 and Wikipedia confirms my commit . Whom is correct , if ya like commit on Oregon Coal rollers on Facebook

 

[B.G. Smith]

I bought a 99 in September of 98, at that time there were many of 98 12 valves and 98 !/2 24 on the lots. bg

 

[fest3er]

The '98 12V was not manufactured after 12/31/97. Plenty of '98 12Vs were made; I ordered mine 8/97, took delivery 10/97, and still drive it. But certain models of the '98 12V are somewhat rare; mayhap the ¾ ton 12V, quad cab, 4WD, 8' bed is hard to find.

 

[MLee]

Kind a both. The 12 valve in last of 97, new model, till Jan 1 when the 24 valve was to be introduced because of the new electronic control Emissions by the government regulations. The 24 valve, 98.5 till the new 99 was to go on sale in the fall. so it gets technical as to exact dates. But thats the just of the story.
The rarity was the Quad cab and the short wheel base that some was able to get. In either the 98 or the 98.5. Most had the long bed.
HOW EVER,,, I could be wrong. and I'll admit that.

 

[JR]

Would it have anything to do with this discussion?

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/254599-When-did-the-24-valve-come-out

All I can tell you is my 98.5 had a build date of spring of 98. I'm not around my truck at the moment so I can't confirm the exact date but it was early 98.

I can take a picture and post it later if it helps.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Apologies to folks who already know this...

First, a 98.5 Dodge truck isn't really a "thing", just like a 64.5 Mustang or a 70.5 Camaro are just a convenient way for marketing people or enthusiasts to refer to a significant difference. The 1/2 does not appear on a title.

The emissions requirements that led to the 24v introduction said that engines that did not conform to the new regs could not be installed in trucks after 12/31/97. So that's when the 12v trucks stopped and the 24v started the next day. Or due to holidays and/or production-changeover logistics, the 12v may have stopped a little sooner and the 24v started a little later, I don't know.

Federal rules for model year designations say you can identify a particular model year pretty much whenever you want, but that designation can not be used for production during more than one January. You could start 2017 production in Feb 2016, build it all of 2016, cross into January 2017 (the first time it was built in any January) and keep going thru December 2017, ceasing before the next January comes around. Not that you'd want to, but it's legal.

To make it even more extreme, you could start building 2020 models in Jan 2017, but you'd have to stop before Jan 2018. Then what would you do?

As for rarity, I don't know the build-quantity breakdown of engine/chassis/cab/bed combinations, but the thing that makes the 98.5 special is the quad cab started at whatever the beginning of 1998 MY production was, and could be gotten with a 12v only until December 97. So if you prefer a 12v engine but want back doors, those few months are the only ones there are. There was a recent discussion of whether short bed or long bed, or 2wd or 4wd was the "Holy Grail," but I reckon your personal Grail is whichever one you want. For me, at home in FLorida, it'd be a long bed 2wd. When I'm in New York it'd have 4wd, but they're all too damn big to park anywhere unless you have a good reason to own a big truck, and in New York, I don't need it.

If you want a standard cab 12v, there's no important difference between a 98 and all the years before it, and if you want a 24v, there's no important difference between a 98.5 and later trucks other than optional HP choices, 6sp vs 5sp manuals, and disc brakes.

Edit to properly respond to the actual question: Model year 1998 did not end in Dec or Jan. It started and ended at Dodge's normal times to start and end, whatever those are. "98.5" isn't a model year. Installation of 12v engines stopped no later than 12/31/97.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Would it have anything to do with this discussion?

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/254599-When-did-the-24-valve-come-out

LOL, I bet it does....

 

[SnoKing]

Yep my 2001.5 had disc brakes on all for corners and the CAD, best of the 24v, but it was really just a 2001. Snoking

 

[DVolk]

This s all good information

 

[Bob V]

I never once said the model year ended in Dec or Jan. I Said the model year started in about aug/sept of 97 and ended in about July on 98. ONLY the 98s built before January of 98 had the 12 valve engine, after January they had the 24 valve. The combanation of the quad cab, that started in the 98 model year, with the 12 valve engine that was only built for about 4 months make them rare, and desirable. Yes, there are a lot if p7100 12 valves built before 98, but ONLY the early 98s had both rear door quad cabs and a 12 valve engine

 

[DVolk]

That's basically what I said ,they also offers both version until June of 98 ( end of components used on the production lines ) then then after that day they went to the 24 v trucks

 

[BigPapa]

they also offers both version until June of 98 ( end of components used on the production lines ) then then after that day they went to the 24 v trucks

This statement is incorrect.

I'll reiterate what several others have said in hopes that it may finally sink in:

Whether Dodge had any 12V engines left on the line or not, due to FEDERAL REGULATIONS, they could not produce a truck with the 12V engine in it after 12-31-97. To say they produced both 12V and 24V trucks for 6 months is ridiculous. You're talking about two VERY different trucks from a manufacturing standpoint. Just try putting a 12V engine in a 24V truck sometime. I have. It would basically require two production lines or factory's.

AND, think about this. Why would Dodge WANT to produce both? At the time, the 24V was the latest and greatest and the 12V was old news. Sure, there were a few folks who knew the difference and preferred the 12V, but to the vast majority of potential buyers things like a new head design with four valves per cylinder, electronically controlled fuel injection with variable timing, and basically higher HP and torque numbers were the big selling point. Find you some old TDR magazines with Dodge ads for the new 24V trucks. You will not see any ads stating "Hurry and get your truck before 12-31-97! On January 1, 1998 we are being forced to move to a new 24V Cummins engine so come get your 12V's NOW!" OR "Don't worry, we bought all the 12V engines Cummins could produce before they were forced to stop building them, so we're going to keep selling the 12V engine until we run out of them! Hurry down to your Dodge dealer before they're GONE!"

 

[DVolk]

Why is it then they show both listing for parts and not with a build date before 12 97 also other websites say it was June of 98 so I guess everyone is right but wrong as there is and was a destination of a half year maybe the will have to call Mystery man to post the true results

 

[Bob V]

Because both the 12 valve and the 24 valves where installed in the 1998 MODEL YEAR trucks. The 98.5 refers to the split mid MODEL YEAR when the 24 valve REPLACED the 12 valve. The 12 valve WOULD NOT MEET the new federal emission regulation inplimented on January of 1998 so the 24 valve HAD TO BE INSTALLED ON ALL the diesel powers Dodge Rams built after 1-1998

 

[DVolk]

So with your thinking if Dodge had a bunch of trucks done sitting for delivery past 12/31 they couldn't be sold period I can remember seeing the sales brochore in my head showing both the 12 and 24 valve engines

 

[RustyJC]

The trucks just could not be BUILT with the 12V after 12/31/97. The regulation was written around the build date, not the sales date. If a 12V truck was sitting on a dealer's lot or in the manufacturer's inventory on or after 1/1/98, it could still be sold with no problem.

Rusty

 

[cerberusiam]

Whether Dodge had any 12V engines left on the line or not, due to FEDERAL REGULATIONS, they could not produce a truck with the 12V engine in it after 12-31-97.

That statement is not strictly true either, they could not produce a truck with the 12V engine to be sold in the US. That did not preclude assembling Dodge trucks with the 12V engine for export or sale in other countries. IIRC, the 12V engine was still available in Mexico the US builds were 24V. Since the assembly line was still in place so it just kept going until the engine was no longer available.

 

[Bob V]

I think we all where thinking and talking about trucks for sale in the USA

 

[cerberusiam]

Be that as it may, Dodge did not build trucks just in and for the US market nor does it change the fact that 12V trucks could and were built after the 1-1998 cut off for US emissions. What Donovan is reporting reading on sites and in documents is likely true, without the qualification of the US market.

FSM's are compiled and printed well before an MY release and usually reflect the status quo as of the start of the MY. Changes will usually be covered with addendums to the original doc. They are not really the final word.

The Mexico City facility was open until 2000 I believe and was building trucks when it was closed down. May very well have been closed when the last of the 12V's were used up and modifying the assembly lines on a 60 year old plant was not feasible.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Be that as it may, we're talking about trucks sold in America. And probably Canada. Of course that's what we're talking about! I bet 99% of us don't know a darn thing about how Dodge trucks are equipped outside of those countries.

When guys in the 4th-Gen forum talk about having mandatory DPFs, do you pop in and say that's wrong because you can buy a truck in Brazil without a DPF?

Unless Donovan comes back to say in fact he was talking about trucks built for countries other than the US and Canada, I vote to drop the international sidetrack of this beaten-to-death argument.