Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Settle a discussion

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Speaking of DPFs, I used to work for a company that built fire trucks. We bought engines from engine makers (CAT, Cummins, Detroit), and transmissions and axles and brakes, but we made the frames and cabs and bodies. There was another emissions law change that took effect Jan 2007, requiring DPFs and all that crap. Knowing how much that was going to suck, In 2006 we bought several hundred pre-DPF engines of various HP ratings from all the makers, which buyers could get in their trucks as a special order. We were still installing the last few in the trucks in early 2009. And it was legal.

I can't explain the difference. Maybe even in Dodge's case, as it was in ours, it's not actually the truck that can't be built, it's the engine. But several hundred 5.9 12v would last Dodge a couple of days, and stockpiling several thousand didn't make a ton of sense. It'd last a few months maybe. So they just changed over. And as mentioned, many pickup truck buyers in 1998 were not concerned about the end of the 12v. I know I thought a 24v was twice as awesome as a 12v! Whereas most fire truck buyers (and all fire truck makers) were seriously unhappy about DPFs.

So there I am, muddying the waters a little further.

 

[Destroked 450]

Well I'll muddy it up some more, after a series of incidents with DPF and regen issues causing emergency vehicles to shut down during life saving emergencies, in 2014 Fed exempted emissions equipment on emergency vehicles (fire trucks, ambulances). Now mfg of emergency equipment can order new chassis without DPF or regen.

Arguing about 12v Dodge's built for Mexcio is same as Ford SD built in Brazil equiped with 4bt Cummins. Did they build them? Yes. Have I ever seen one in the US? No.

A few years ago a friend went a Australia and rented a Toyota diesel pickup to drive while he was there,(said it got over 50 mpg) when he got home he went to his dealer to order one. They told him it could not be imported to the US because of emissions.

 

[cerberusiam]

Of course that's what we're talking about! I bet 99% of us don't know a darn thing about how Dodge trucks are equipped outside of those countries.

LOL, you are not helping with the perception of American Arrogance the rest of the world has. You are the reason I am taking fire from my international friends, STOP it!!!!!! :-laf:-laf

There is a big difference between emissions controls and engine design, bolt on parts have traditional been exempted in certain usages if proven to be problematic. the difference between a 12V and 24V are more than bolt on so comparisons don't really work.

In the case of the 24V, that was Cummins answer to meet the requirements for the LD truck market they were servicing. Not EVERY segment they were servicing had to meet those requirements which begs the question when did Cummins actually roll the last 12V off the assembly lines.

Not every single piece of information in manuals , on the web, or in a magazine is necessarily using such a narrow view point as the US market and trying to apply that to the world at large. As I said, it may NOT be strictly true that EVERY Dodge truck one could find HAD a 24V after 1-1998. Too many other variable to make that an absolute statement.

 

[RustyJC]

OK, now we're just picking the fly poop out of the pepper...

Rusty

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Well I'll muddy it up some more, after a series of incidents with DPF and regen issues causing emergency vehicles to shut down during life saving emergencies, in 2014 Fed exempted emissions equipment on emergency vehicles (fire trucks, ambulances). Now mfg of emergency equipment can order new chassis without DPF or regen.
.

That is AWESOME! I haven't been around fire trucks since '09. I'm amazed the gov utilized common sense, and only 7 years late!

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

In the case of the 24V, that was Cummins answer to meet the requirements for the LD truck market they were servicing. Not EVERY segment they were servicing had to meet those requirements which begs the question when did Cummins actually roll the last 12V off the assembly lines.

Yes, but we're talking about Dodge pickups here.

Not every single piece of information in manuals , on the web, or in a magazine is necessarily using such a narrow view point as the US market and trying to apply that to the world at large.

And please accept my apologies on behalf of everyone involved in this discussion for not explicitly stating that we were talking about only the US & Canadian markets. We assumed it went without saying.

 

[BigPapa]

OK, now we're just picking the fly poop out of the pepper...

I beg to differ, sir.


I think there's more fly poop than pepper here, so were actually picking the pepper out of the fly poop..........

 

[JR]

Whether Dodge had any 12V engines left on the line or not, due to FEDERAL REGULATIONS, they could not produce a truck with the 12V engine in it after 12-31-97. ]

The big bold word in all CAPS denotes the fact the conversation is referring to one country only, and it sure ain't Mexico

I'm thinkin they must have legalized weed in the flat lands :-laf:-laf

 

[DVolk]

I never commuted in the discussion about american or world wide built dodge pickups in 1998 up to mid year . The discussion started reguyarding a 98 dodge pickup with a 12 valve of which is not all that rare ,the girl also said it was a sport model it was not a sport model is all , I don't know if this was a Canadian truck it could have been who konows ??? On another note what model of ford had a 4 BT in Brazil ???

 

[BigPapa]

the girl also said it was a sport model

It very well could have been a Sport model. It was offered IN THE USA in '98. Painted bumpers, grille, and tail lights.

 

[Destroked 450]

99 to I believe 04 F-250 SD, Brazil only came with 4BT's. the belt routing decal on my F-450 shows a belt routing for 3.9 (4BT). One decal for all engines that came in SD, F-250 to F-750.

 

[Bob V]

Speaking of DPFs, I used to work for a company that built fire trucks. We bought engines from engine makers (CAT, Cummins, Detroit), and transmissions and axles and brakes, but we made the frames and cabs and bodies. There was another emissions law change that took effect Jan 2007, requiring DPFs and all that crap. Knowing how much that was going to suck, In 2006 we bought several hundred pre-DPF engines of various HP ratings from all the makers, which buyers could get in their trucks as a special order. We were still installing the last few in the trucks in early 2009. And it was legal.

I can't explain the difference. Maybe even in Dodge's case, as it was in ours, it's not actually the truck that can't be built, it's the engine. But several hundred 5.9 12v would last Dodge a couple of days, and stockpiling several thousand didn't make a ton of sense. It'd last a few months maybe. So they just changed over. And as mentioned, many pickup truck buyers in 1998 were not concerned about the end of the 12v. I know I thought a 24v was twice as awesome as a 12v! Whereas most fire truck buyers (and all fire truck makers) were seriously unhappy about DPFs.

So there I am, muddying the waters a little further.

That might have to do with the consent decree that cummins and some of the other engine manufactures had tp make engine that passed emissions regulations a few year early for "cheating" on some test cycles. This only applied to larger trucks in the USA market.
Diclaimer, any discussion to any issues I make on this board only applies to trucks produced for the USA market only.

 

[Bob V]

BTW thanks to some poeple here I changed my singnature. Unless I say spicificly that I am discusing trucks or components made for other than the USA market please assume we are talking about the trucks almost all of us own and drive

 

[DVolk]

The truck had standard bumpers on it

 

[BigPapa]

Painted or chrome?

 

[gcorron]

Whew! THAT was lucky! I was afraid that a question like that could devolve into a urinating contest!

Now, on my 97 24 valve, which, of course, can use propane as fuel, I recently installed the 1" PVC exhaust that, as everyone knows, was ONLY available in Argentina, and only AFTER the third full moon of July in 04. So here's the question.......

 

[DVolk]

Chrome thee way it looked in the pic

 

[Bob V]

Chrome thee way it looked in the pic

I can't tell by the pics. Could be white, like the truck, or could be chrome, I never seen the rear bumper in the pics.

 

[BigPapa]

Chrome thee way it looked in the pic

I've never seen a picture of "thee" truck......

 

[fest3er]

I've never seen a picture of "thee" truck......

DVolk could be a Quaker or Mennonite....