Should I wait for the 6.7L??

[y-knot]

I don't think you would be a FOOL to purchase a new model Cummins or the new to Dodge Asian automatic. The transmission has been around and has worked very well, and Cummins isn't going to release anything with out tons of R&D time behind it. I see the Cummins Dodge Test truck all the time running up and down the highway pulling their high load wind screen trailer. This truck never stops, it is always running and they just insert a new driver as the shift changes. Cummins has put litterly thousands of miles on this new engine, just as they did all the other engines, all in the name of quality control. Yes it is a new engine to you and all the rest of us, but to Cummins it has been around for some time, logging miles up and down 74 and 75.

Why is everyone so scared of change? I embrace it, I like the to see improvements, more modern electronics and lower emissions. Granted I still like the old noisy 12V's, but like anything else in the auto industry, electronics and the computers that control them are getting better and better everyday. Durability, fuel mileage, lower emissions, and more power are all components of better electronics, and newer engine design. Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge and all the other auto makers continually release new engines and no one every questions these. So why the hype for Cummins? I have many times more faith in their ability to re-design and produce a quality engine then any of the other engine manufacturers, so again why all the hype? Probally because most have nothing better to do then sit in front of the computer and type. Look Cummins has been around for a very long time, they were the first true diesel engine to be bolted into a pickup truck. They set the standard for which all others had to follow. They continually made positive changes to the 5. 9L engine, and in '98 they introduced a whole new concept in diesel technology with the 24v engine. They built upon the 24v and pushed the HP up to wear we are today. So what makes anyone think they are in-capable of producing a new more modern and better diesel engine? I can not see where anyone has a reason to worry, except for those who are always against change and are chronic worriers.

 

[EMD-Run8]

I agree. I LIKE my '98 12V and wouldn't at all mind finding a '98 QC 12V. The idea of a straight, mechanical diesel motor that doesn't depend on electrical power is what attracted me to diesels since I was a kid. Having said that, my '04 was much smoother, more powerful (stock) and the electronics do allow some pretty nice features. Modern electronic cruise is WAY better than what it was in say---a '78 Monte Carlo. I was looking at the spec sheets for the '07 CC. With the PTO options on the truck you can have idle control and the exhaust brake setup is just a few extra parts and controls. That's REALLY sweet! Cummins has so far had an exceptional record with their electronic controls. I think it'll be fine. I'd really love to have an Audi Q7 TDI V12 but at the same time I like the idea of my truck being pretty much nuts & bolts too. I'm going to drive a 6. 7 but I'm gonna think real hard about buying one. Expecially if the fuel mileage isn't there. There's a really long thread at the dieselstop about EGR, CATs, particulate traps and all that. There's a lot of worry about the effects of EGR on longevity. From what I've read, EGR actually has some benefits in the bigger picture. Seems to me all the worry about emissions could be eased up quite a bit if we could just adapt to 20% biodiesel in the near future. I think that DC has recently said that they will warranty their engines with as much as B20. I think the new 6. 7's gonna be tough to beat.

 

[juicedcummins]

No, the Dodge truck 6. 7 (which is all-new and not on the market yet) is not the same engine as the Euro 6. 7, which has been out for a couple years (which is a stroked 5. 9). The Ram 6. 7 has a larger bore and shorter stroke (thank goodness) than the Euro 6. 7. We'll get to be the guinea pigs for this new, virtually untested engine. But I'm confident Cummins will "get it right" since they have a lot of experience in cooled EGR and Fleetguard is ahead of the curve in particulate trap technology and such.



Here's a thought (and hope): since EGR is coming, it's possible they will do away with the 3rd injection event. Crossing my fingers anyway!



Vaughn

I was not even aware of the Euro you reffered to. I was talking about the 6. 7 Cummins in the Agco ag tractors.

 

[jarsong]

I don't doubt the new Cummins will be done right. What I would be afraid of is Cost of service/Parts/Upgrades? How heavy it drinks? Cost of the truck in the first place? Bomb'ing complexity? No rebates? Total cost of ownership might skyrocket. No one really knows yet... .

jarsong

 

[JGheen]

I hear ya y-knot and EMD-Run8, I have no doubts that the "engine" will be a great reliable upgrade to the current DC. But my thing is the electronics that control the engine are somewhat of a worry. Who knows what kind of bugs will come out of this new truck and being the first year, I would like to see a few thousand trucks out there running around with no problems rather than get a new truck and every other week, it's back in the deal with a new TSB or warranty re-call.

As an example, when I got my '98 12v I didn't know too much other than I wanted a Cummins over the Ford Power Stroke at the time and didn't hear too much about the new(at that time)24v Cummins. After it came out I had noticed all the fuel pump problems they had and some electronics bugs here and there. My '98 12v has given me almost no issues engine wise and part of that I think is because it is the latest and greatest mechanically fuel injected engine that Cummins has put out. Now that the new 24v has been out for almost 8 years, I think it would be wise to buy a 5. 9L truck than the 6. 7L for those reasons. Let others buy them and find the problems and like I said above, by that time I think the 6. 7L will be flawless and time to buy one.



Oh well, I think I have made my decision, but lets keep this thread going as it is interesting to hear others comments on the subject.



Thanks, Joe

 

[MD500E]

I have no doubt that that the new 6. 7 will be a fine motor, its the emissions equipment that I have concerns with. Also, those of us who like to modify their truck, may run into inspection and emissions testing issues if we remove items such items as the EGR, cat, and particulate filter. I have seen many VW TDI's with intakes almost completely clogging every 25,000 miles and a friend who owns a jeep liberty diesel had egr/intake clogging problems at only 12,000 miles.

 

[CUMMINZ]

I pulled the trigger on a 2006 in early spring and glad I did. I am waiting on a 5500 with the 6. 7 and 6 speed auto.

 

[Ross]

Well, I did it too. I just made a deal on a 2006 Mega Cab Dually 4x4 6 speed G56. It was the current "96 hour inventory reduction sale" and 0% for 60 months that pushed me over the edge. My trailer is so large, I just couldn't bring myself to by the current 48RE. Got a 1% under dealer invoice throught the Dodge Rodeo partnership. Still a lot of money, but had to do something.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Congrats on the new truck Ross. Getting off track here a bit, but I remember you posting way long time ago in the early days of TDR, seems I haven't seen you on here much until recently (probably explains the 187-post count versus mine) . Were you on the CDW forum before TDR started?

I was not even aware of the Euro you reffered to. I was talking about the 6. 7 Cummins in the Agco ag tractors.

Juiced, just guessing but I think the ag 6. 7 is basically the same motor, a stroked 5. 9.

 

[Ross]

Vaughn you wrote:

Were you on the CDW forum before TDR started?

No, but I was on here (the TDR) since the early days. This site has really grown. I like seeing some of you (er... US) "old-timers" (no offense!) on the site. Like you, I was one of the first "Bombers. " Do any of the new people know what that really means? Better Off Modified, Baby! Right Vaughan?



I really look forward to getting my new truck. I've been pulling my trailer with the Volvo VNL in my sig (500 HP Cummins N14), but my wife just WILL NOT drive it. I've decided being the only driver in the rig isn't a good thing, so the Volvo is going away :{ and the new Mega is coming home as its replacement. I drove it last week on a hot day to make sure it's not one with the A/C problems. It seemed to cool just fine. I'll keep my fingers crossed, and will be sure and post my new experiences with it; maybe some pics, too.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Yeah, and not too many probably know it was Scott Pirsak (of Scotty air systems) who coined BOMB in the first place. Actually it started off as "BOM" but very shortly thereafter the "Baby!" was added to the end



I think you'll like the Mega Cab, but you will be using A/C a lot where you're at. I've crossed that Chihiuahua dessert a couple times myself, once in July.



Vaughn

 

[JGheen]

Well, I did it too. I just made a deal on a 2006 Mega Cab Dually 4x4 6 speed G56. It was the current "96 hour inventory reduction sale" and 0% for 60 months that pushed me over the edge. My trailer is so large, I just couldn't bring myself to by the current 48RE. Got a 1% under dealer invoice throught the Dodge Rodeo partnership. Still a lot of money, but had to do something.

Cool deal, Ross, I too am hoping to get a deal like you got but I will be getting the Mega cab 3500 SRW 4x4 as I am tired of buying 6 tires instead of just 4 when tire needs come along. Of course that is not the only reason but I like the incentives that your dealer gave you on the '06. Did they happen to mention how much longer that inventory reduction sale will be going on?? I want a specific truck but I am not sure if the dealer will order me one or find me one already existing. I want things like the manual transmission and 4. 10 gears but the internet site where you can build a truck won't give me the 4. 10 gear option with the 6 speed manual trans. I think my truck is out there just need to find it. Probably have to do a state wide search of dealer inventory to find the right truck. Looking for that Patriot Blue color as well.



Joe

 

[TAbbott]

Jgheen, I can't believe you really want 4. 10's behind a G-56 6 speed. Mines got 3. 73's and it thinks they're 4. 10's. Real 4. 10's would be more like having 4. 33's. Unless you're planning on running 37" tires or larger the 4. 10's will just be a whole lot of gear, especially when running empty. On my truck, trying to run 75 on the freeways (which if you don't you'll get run over or be a road hazard) is painful. Listening to that big ol' torquey Cummins spinning wildly at 2500+ rpms for hours at a time just trying to run with traffic (when it could easily do the job at 1800-1900 or even less) is just hard on me! The split from OD to direct (6th to 5th) in the G-56 is only about 400 rpms. I'd rather see 3. 23's or 3. 07's or even faster rear gears available and if it pulls too hard, just drop it into direct and forget it. I figure my truck would get 22-25 mpg with 3. 07's rather than the 18. 5 or so it gets now with the 3. 73'3.

 

[BHolm]

You will not find a 6 speed with 4. 10s, they haven't offered that since the G56 trans was introduced in mid 2005. I doubt you would like it anyway as that would be a fuel economy killer at highway speeds. The 48re auto is the only trans offered with 4. 10 gears. Fourth in the auto is taller (lower rpms) than sixth in the manual.



For anyone who doubts the possible complexities of this new engine, ask an early Ford 6. 0 owner (or a current one for that matter :-laf ). Navistar has also built more than a few diesels, and I think the 6. 0 had been in International trucks for a short time with no problems. The electronics used to interface with the truck itself and to meet all of the necessary emissions parameters could most definately cause problems. Do you think the guys buying the first 6. 0's, trading in reliable 7. 3's, had any clue what kind of nightmare they were buying into?



I suspect that any milage lost by larger displacement and emissions controls might be gained back by the double overdrive six speed auto



Still, that is a LOT of new equipment, no matter how good the suppliers reputations. The current truck is a known quantity, it would be an easy choice for me.

 

[Regcabguy]

Statewide search website?

Cool deal, Ross, I too am hoping to get a deal like you got but I will be getting the Mega cab 3500 SRW 4x4 as I am tired of buying 6 tires instead of just 4 when tire needs come along. Of course that is not the only reason but I like the incentives that your dealer gave you on the '06. Did they happen to mention how much longer that inventory reduction sale will be going on?? I want a specific truck but I am not sure if the dealer will order me one or find me one already existing. I want things like the manual transmission and 4. 10 gears but the internet site where you can build a truck won't give me the 4. 10 gear option with the 6 speed manual trans. I think my truck is out there just need to find it. Probably have to do a state wide search of dealer inventory to find the right truck. Looking for that Patriot Blue color as well.



Joe

Does anybody know of the procedure to search statewide for a CTD?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

You might check my article in Issue 53, p. 34. Some points about the 6. 7 are:

4. 21 x 4. 88" bore and stroke

variable geometry turbo

five fueling events-- 2 pilots, 1 main, 2 auxiliary

cooled egr and particulate trap in addition to cat con

 

[Ross]

Joe:



The 0% for 60 months is a nationwide promotion for 96 hours only. It ends Monday, October 2. Go to the Dodge.com site. Details are there. You can also defer any payments until March 2007.



I would prefer to get a single wheel, but my trailer puts 5500 pounds on the hitch. I need four tires on the ground to carry it. :--)

 

[JGheen]

Does anybody know of the procedure to search statewide for a CTD?

I went to Dodge.com and did a search of various cities and could only find 3 trucks that were to my liking and 2 of them were here in California. I wish that site had the option to do a nationwide search but it will do a great search within a couple hundred miles of major cities like LA or SF out here for example. Just build your truck on the site and it will search inventories of listed dealers.



Thanks for the 4. 10 gear info with the 6 speed guys..... sounds like the 3. 73's will be just fine in that truck.



I think I am still gonna go ahead and get a 5. 9 and be done with it. After searching for hours to find the exact truck I want, I barely came up with anything and I think if I ordered the exact truck with everything I wanted then it would take too long and I would end up buying the 6. 7L anyway. Does anyone know by chance how long it takes for a custom ordered truck through a dealer?? I am sure it varies but a rough time frame estimate(2 weeks, a month??) would help me in this decision as well.



Thanks, Joe

 

[TAbbott]

You will not find a 6 speed with 4. 10s, they haven't offered that since the G56 trans was introduced in mid 2005. I doubt you would like it anyway as that would be a fuel economy killer at highway speeds. The 48re auto is the only trans offered with 4. 10 gears. Fourth in the auto is taller (lower rpms) than sixth in the manual.



For anyone who doubts the possible complexities of this new engine, ask an early Ford 6. 0 owner (or a current one for that matter :-laf ). Navistar has also built more than a few diesels, and I think the 6. 0 had been in International trucks for a short time with no problems. The electronics used to interface with the truck itself and to meet all of the necessary emissions parameters could most definately cause problems. Do you think the guys buying the first 6. 0's, trading in reliable 7. 3's, had any clue what kind of nightmare they were buying into?



I suspect that any milage lost by larger displacement and emissions controls might be gained back by the double overdrive six speed auto



Still, that is a LOT of new equipment, no matter how good the suppliers reputations. The current truck is a known quantity, it would be an easy choice for me.

Just to support your position on the new engines, I'd like to quote a few of excerpts from an editorial in the September '06 issue of Light & Medium Truck magazine:



"As you likely know by now, new diesel emission standards take effect Jan. 1 and, as a result, a pre-buy is in full swing. Heavy Duty fleets are buying trucks as if there was no tomorrow. "



"The same cannot be said for the medium duty sector. " "... the (medium duty) numbers do not mirror the panic taking place in the heavy-duty sector. "



"Further, a good portion of those medium-duty sales came from the large fleet buyers, such as Ryder System and Penske Trucks... . "



"Why the gap?"



"The answer ... is simple... Most medium duty buyers don't know any better. "



Unsaid is the fact that Ryder and Penske definitely do know better. In fact, anybody that was involved with heavy trucks during the last fiasco of emissions reg. changes knows better.



More evidence from the same issue of that magazine: "International announced to its dealers that the surcharge for its two core medium-duty 2007 emmission-compliant engines will be $5,000. 00. " (One of those engines is the new version of what internally they called the VT-365 and Ford called the 6. 0 Litre. )



From the same issue re: Freightliner Medium Duty trucks: "The 2007 emissions mandate will boost prices for the medium-duty models between $3,000. 00 and $6,000. 00. "



And none of the above addresses any increased costs of operation from losses in efficiency, durability, increases in maintenance expense or other losses stemming from the use of less dependable engines including loss of use of the equipment while it's down for repair. My advise to anyone who'll listen is to get a new 5. 9 while they're still available and let someone else enjoy the new and improved 6. 7.

 

[BHolm]

I don't think it is so much that the medium duty buyers don't know as the don't care. Heavy duty buyers make a living on the road. That is a tight market, lots of trucking companies, not a lot of margin. They are also almost always a long way from home. Medium duty trucks in those huge fleets get leased out and mainly stay in urban areas where towing and repairs are MUCH more convienient that they are crossing Utah or Nevada on a cross country pull. Medium duty buyers just are not as heavily affected IMO, the market is a little "fatter" and it is easier to pass on costs, the owners exposure is less having many trucks in a small area, as opposed to long haul guys out on their own. Those are the guys who's livelyhood depends on the truck.