Slipping Clutch, under 50k?

[MichaelOverfield]

Is your truck stock? If not, what HP did it dyno at or future increases? These are questions for Southbend Clutch, you can call SB and they’ll advise the proper clutch for your purchase. BTW, my clutch started slipping @ 30K miles, but it was because a possible corrupted ECM update causing surging power accelerating over 2K RPM, another long story. Good luck with whatever you chose.

Yes, the truck is currently stock. With the small trailer I tow, it currently is more than enough power. I have considered upgrading to more at some point, but that would likely be if I ever towed a heavier load. I'm pretty sure I'm going with an overkill, much more than I need clutch. I just want it to last, as I expect it to be quite the job to put it in with the 250lb transmission and 70lb flywheel.. Turns out I could not cancel, so the SDD3250-GK is on the way. I guess I might have other problems with drivability, but I don't think I'll have any more slippage with this overkill clutch for a stock truck. I also just sent an e-mail to SB to get their thoughts. One question I had was the all organic discs might make for less grab, and seems that could be an easy swap if needed.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I have run stick shifts for 50 years, and Ram-Cummins from stock to 800 HP at the wheels. In my opinion, South Bend clutches are well worth their cost. There are engineering features in them which may not be readily apparent, and quality components that may not look very different from generic stuff. Then you consider the cost and effort to get the clutch changed, and there is another big reason to get a top quality clutch.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

I have run stick shifts for 50 years, and Ram-Cummins from stock to 800 HP at the wheels. In my opinion, South Bend clutches are well worth their cost. There are engineering features in them which may not be readily apparent, and quality components that may not look very different from generic stuff. Then you consider the cost and effort to get the clutch changed, and there is another big reason to get a top quality clutch.

Thanks for that help, I'm totally with you on the effort to get this thing fixed.. it's worth a bit more in parts to not have to do it again in 48K miles, for sure. I did go with the South Bend based on very positive feedback.

 

[RVTRKN]

You’ll like the DD, but it’ll take awhile. Once you get used to the noise when you release the clutch, you’ll hardly notice it anymore. What rattles me, is idling when clutch is engaged, it sounds like the input shaft has a lot play, so I pump the clutch a couple of times and then it will run quiet. I had Richard Poels of Standard Transmission replace the browned bearings and had him check the end play on the input shaft after rebuilding. The G56 was in good condition before the tear down, and other than the browned bearings at only 30K miles, it was OK. That was the main reason I developed my cooling system.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

You’ll like the DD, but it’ll take awhile. Once you get used to the noise when you release the clutch, you’ll hardly notice it anymore. What rattles me, is idling when clutch is engaged, it sounds like the input shaft has a lot play, so I pump the clutch a couple of times and then it will run quiet. I had Richard Poels of Standard Transmission replace the browned bearings and had him check the end play on the input shaft after rebuilding. The G56 was in good condition before the tear down, and other than the browned bearings at only 30K miles, it was OK. That was the main reason I developed my cooling system.

Thanks, I plan a very similar cooling system to your design. When I get it all done I'll take some pictures and post.

 

[RVTRKN]

Joseph Donnelly wrote an article in the TDR mag back in 07 on the G56, I don’t remember what edition, but it is an excellent article with Richard Poels from Standard Transmission.

 

[Tuesdak]

What rattles me, is idling when clutch is engaged, it sounds like the input shaft has a lot play, so I pump the clutch a couple of times and then it will run quiet. I had Richard Poels of Standard Transmission replace the browned bearings and had him check the end play on the input shaft after rebuilding. The G56 was in good condition before the tear down, and other than the browned bearings at only 30K miles, it was OK. That was the main reason I developed my cooling system.

I get some of the same rattle at idle and pumping the clutch also can quiet it down. IMO this is simply the transmission gears aligning just right with the engine idle power pulses and rattling louder. Trans rebuild didn't make a difference on noise.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

So as expected, SB did say the DD3250-GK is way more clutch than any stock truck needs.. but it will be what I use, it's in the mail already... so it seems I need to look a a power upgrade now to match the clutch! Well, I've been considering that anyway, so might as well go there now... any recomendations would help. Thanks.

 

[Regcabguy]

So as expected, SB did say the DD3250-GK is way more clutch than any stock truck needs.. but it will be what I use, it's in the mail already... so it seems I need to look a a power upgrade now to match the clutch! Well, I've been considering that anyway, so might as well go there now... any recomendations would help. Thanks.

EFI is working well for me. Anarchy delivers good customer service.

 

[RVTRKN]

Yup, EFILive is what I run as well, and you don’t have to delete.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

Yup, EFILive is what I run as well, and you don’t have to delete.

This one? http://performancetruckproducts.com/dacpkd7-anarchy-diesel-flo-pro-performance-kit-07-5-09-dodge/

I'm not quite ready to delete.. but I know one can with the right tune using EFILive. Actually have an EFILive set of tunes for my 2.0L LUZ Chevy Cruze Diesel. The hot program on that was so agressive it just burned up tires without any effort.. had to settle for the middle tune!

 

[photowrite]

Thanks, I previously switched to Mobile 1 fluid. Since I have a big trip coming up, I could not wait around.. just ordered the complete South Bend Kit. The Dual disc kit was not much extra, and I decided to go with it, might be a bit of overkill for my use, but given that was enough to kill the original in so few miles. I had over 175k on my '96 Saturn clutch. Drove it hard, even towed with that car, and it began to slip.. turns out it had some transmision oil get on it, hence slip. But was not worn out. There is no reason a clutch should die a 48k.

You obviously know how to drive a clutch well if you can get 175K or more miles on a stock clutch, which really should not be abnormal mileage unless truly severe service. Still suprised you are having trouble with so few miles.

I recently put the South Bend Clutch OK-HD in my 2017. I did not have a problem with my factory clutch yet, except for what sounded like throwout bearing noise, but was probably the dual-mass flywheel. My 2014 still has the stock clutch and flywheel.

Chose the baseline clutch for the simple reason that matching the clutch to the engine is important in my opinion, and not overdoing it to reduce drivability. The G56-OK-HD has plenty of reserve for a stock engine and rated loads. My TDR column will have a detailed clutch article coming up in the next magazine, but you will need your clutch way before then. Plus, I have not had the South Bend Clutch long enough, it will take a while, hopefully decades to wear it out.

Edit

Just read on page two you are staying with the DD clutch and might add power...cool .

 

[mfurrh55]

Ok, interesting. Well I had the DD 3250 on order, but it can be cancelled. Would the G56-OKHD, of G56-OFEK single disc be a better choice? I also found a EXEDY Kit on RockAuto.. says it's good up to 680ft-lbs, and after $229 shipping it's about $700 or so, about $400 cheaper or more than SB. Is SB worth that kind of premium price?

I have the exedy and it works great , been in truck for 50k, also I had the dual mass Crap for 124k slipped under load all the time, just have to back out of it from time to time, removed it and it was still good and so was the dual mass Crap, but I won't go with another one. The exedy works great, I pull trailers frequently loaded pretty heavy

 

[MichaelOverfield]

You obviously know how to drive a clutch well if you can get 175K or more miles on a stock clutch, which really should not be abnormal mileage unless truly severe service. Still suprised you are having trouble with so few miles.

I recently put the South Bend Clutch OK-HD in my 2017. I did not have a problem with my factory clutch yet, except for what sounded like throwout bearing noise, but was probably the dual-mass flywheel. My 2014 still has the stock clutch and flywheel.

Chose the baseline clutch for the simple reason that matching the clutch to the engine is important in my opinion, and not overdoing it to reduce drivability. The G56-OK-HD has plenty of reserve for a stock engine and rated loads. My TDR column will have a detailed clutch article coming up in the next magazine, but you will need your clutch way before then. Plus, I have not had the South Bend Clutch long enough, it will take a while, hopefully decades to wear it out.

Edit

Just read on page two you are staying with the DD clutch and might add power...cool .

Well the more I read up on the DMF, the more I realized I likely killed it. While my tow is not too much for the truck, it allows me to not downshift as long as RPM is above 1500, plenty of tourqe for my rig.. but that low RPM high torque is exaclty what kills the DMF. That's a lot of hammering of the cushion parts.. no doubt that is what did it, but it's still a bit of an assumption at this point, I have yet to tear it apart and look at the situation. What I have at this point is some slippage of the clutch under load, and noise symptoms. I'll be sure to update with my findings, and pictures when I get this in pieces next week.

Yeah, my quick purchase of the overkill clutch for a stock truck is going to now lead to the need for more power to make the clutch a better fit.. I guess I'll just have to deal with that "mistake" as needed. I'm leaning toward the EFI Live Anarchy tune at this time. The Smarty Touch is also tempting. I'm not quite at the point of making a straight pipe in the exhaust.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

I have the exedy and it works great , been in truck for 50k, also I had the dual mass Crap for 124k slipped under load all the time, just have to back out of it from time to time, removed it and it was still good and so was the dual mass Crap, but I won't go with another one. The exedy works great, I pull trailers frequently loaded pretty heavy

Thanks for the feedback, it was hard to find much in the way of reviews for anything other than South Bend. Had I not already ordered the South Bend, I'd likely have gone with Exedy, based on your experience, it would have been about $700 less, no small chunk of change there. Good to know for anyone else who comes upon this thread.

Now I'll have to deal with the need for more power to suit the clutch.. really it was not on purpose.. or something like that!

 

[Gemstone]

"South Bend kits are more than double cost.. are they worth that much more?"....IMO, yes.

Regards
Gemstone

 

[RVTRKN]

I thought my DMF failed at 30K, but it was the glitch in my ECM that took out my clutch. A long story short, when in regen accelerating below 2000 RPM no power, when in regen above 2K RPM, it will take off like a bat out of hell. So'oooo pulling Chiriaco pass out of Indio Ca at 23K GCW
and had to downshift to 4th to allow a Simi to pass another Simi. I accelerated to shift to 5th, when I hit 2K RPM it took off like a bat out of hell, and at 23 GCW it didn't keep up with the engine speed and slipped my clutch. I had to baby it until the SB DD3250 was installed.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

"South Bend kits are more than double cost.. are they worth that much more?"....IMO, yes.

Regards
Gemstone

Thanks, that seems to be a near unanimous opinion, they must be doing something right with their products to get such respect, even at a premium price.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

I thought my DMF failed at 30K...I accelerated to shift to 5th, when I hit 2K RPM it took off like a bat out of hell, and at 23 GCW it didn't keep up with the engine speed and slipped my clutch. I had to baby it until the SB DD3250 was installed.

Wow, that must have been more excitment than you would like.. were you tuned at that time, or did that happen with a stock tune? I know they had several software upgrades, and it looks like you were amoung the first with a DPF equipped 6.7 engine.

 

[photowrite]

Well the more I read up on the DMF, the more I realized I likely killed it. While my tow is not too much for the truck, it allows me to not downshift as long as RPM is above 1500, plenty of tourqe for my rig.. but that low RPM high torque is exaclty what kills the DMF. That's a lot of hammering of the cushion parts.. no doubt that is what did it, but it's still a bit of an assumption at this point, I have yet to tear it apart and look at the situation. What I have at this point is some slippage of the clutch under load, and noise symptoms. I'll be sure to update with my findings, and pictures when I get this in pieces next week.

Yeah, my quick purchase of the overkill clutch for a stock truck is going to now lead to the need for more power to make the clutch a better fit.. I guess I'll just have to deal with that "mistake" as needed. I'm leaning toward the EFI Live Anarchy tune at this time. The Smarty Touch is also tempting. I'm not quite at the point of making a straight pipe in the exhaust.

Interesting update, looking forward to future posts.