Smarty VS. Edgue Juice-- Conclusion

[DieselFiend]

Hi guys! Bob Wagner sent me a demo smarty to try out for week so i thought I'd compare the smarty with my edge juice in two catagories. The two catagories most important to me that is. 1. Fuel Economy 2. Power.



To start, when I conducted the test with the smarty I went a total of 1200 miles towing a 2K trailer. Not a lot but enough.



So, fuel economy was good with the smarty on #3. I averaged about 16MPG for the whole trip which is better than what I've been averaging empty with the edge juice w/attitude. After removing the smarty and sending it back to bob, I ran the same test with the edge only empty this time. I'm pretty disapointed. I'm averaging 13MPG if I'm lucky with the edge. If I'm soft on the pedal I'll get about 15MPG but with the smarty I was getting way better milage and didn't have worry so much about keeping a light foot. So for fuel economy, smarty gets a thumbs up and juice gets a thumbs down from me.



Here are my observations in power between the two. The juice definetly has the smarty beat off the line. The initial throttle response feels immediate with the juice. The smarty, however, did not fair so well in the initial take off from a complete stop. It took way more time for the turbo to spool with the smarty than the juice. After the turbo spool the tables changed quite a bit. The smarty had smooth solid power all the way through the curve. At WOT the juice seemed to be defueling the engine at a certain point, even with all the settings on the high and almost impossible side. The smarty seemed to lack the limitations of the juice, therefor giving a much better response at higher RPM. I could really feel the difference when I'd pass cars in overdrive. The smarty would really push you deep into the seat. With the juice, you'd either get an upshift or a not so dramatic acceleration.



Here are some other observations. The smarty continually set a P602 in the ECM. Not a big deal since you can clear them with the smarty. I like the monitoring capability of the edge juice w/attitude. I really wish edge would come out with something that would just monitor vitals off the map.



Although I was very impressed with the smarty, I did have one pretty major safety concern. A couple times, I'd be cruising with the throttle at a certain point and have to hit the brakes. I'd hit the brakes and the RPM's would stay right where I left them and the TC stayed locked for a lot longer than I'm confortable with, even when hitting the brakes. Almost put me into the back of a car on one occasion. This is something that definetly didn't happen with my juice or the stock ECM. It started happening when I loaded the smarty.



With this comparison, I just wanted to give my fellow TDR bretheren an unbias observation of these two products.

Will I stay with the Edge Juice or buy a smarty? As long as the TC and throttle thing is addressed, I'll probably buy a smarty and sell my juice but not until then.

 

[Augie]

First time I have heard of the problem you encountered. When did you perform this comparison? The current upgrades for you application was released on Dec 8. I just received my Smarty S-06 yesterday with the current updates as per Bob W. Have not loaded it yet. I will post if I get the same problem.

 

[Giachino]

Good Review!



I've never run a truck with the J/A combo, but I'm struggling to believe that anything fuels harder off the bottom than the smarty... ??? Maybe it had the stock torque mgmt program installed? or the new software that reduces timming rattle?? Mine spools real quick on level 3, I dont think its possible to spool any faster. Hmmmm



Were you running the J/A on a comparable level during the power comparison?



The throttle thing is scary... . I've had mine for 4k miles w/o anything similiar (thankfully)... .

 

[lcaad1249]

I've nooticed the same thing with pulling for too long also, but I did so many things at once (transmission, ATS Co-pilot, rail pressure sensor) that I wasn't sure what the cause was.

 

[DieselFiend]

I know that some trucks may not experience the same problems with the smarty. I guess they're kind of like finger prints, no two are exactly the same and will react different ways to new software.



Augie, I ran the test on the 4th through the 8th of December so I didn't have the latest update. I had whatever Bob had on the box when he sent it to me.

Giachino, I know it's hard to believe. Compared to stock, I'm sure the smarty spools quick but the Juice spools quicker. However, once the turbo spooled with the smarty the truck took off like a rocket. Even with my sleds in tow. Also, I'm pretty sure bob wouldn't send me the smarty with the stock torque management. Also, the J/A was set to #3 which is 60HP level. The smarty was also set to #3 with timing which is 60HP.

Another observation was the timing. With the smarty I noticed a considerable more amount of rattle. I really don't care about the rattle as long as it's not damaging the truck. The juice has just a minimal timing advance from stock it seems like as it doesn't rattle nearly as much. Either way, I'd prefer a smarty if the TC stuff is addressed and fixed. It just felt a whole lot better to me power wise. For some reason, my J/A is having a serious negative impact on my fuel economy.

 

[Giachino]

For some reason, my J/A is having a serious negative impact on my fuel economy.

Isnt there a low boost fueling setting (level 1-5) for the J/A? Maybe you have that set on 5 and it's dumping a ton of fuel down low which would explain the quick boost and thirsty mileage???? Just a thought.

 

[DieselFiend]

Giachino, it's not set on 5. I've got all my low boost fueling settings on 3.

 

[Big P]

Although I was very impressed with the smarty, I did have one pretty major safety concern. A couple times, I'd be cruising with the throttle at a certain point and have to hit the brakes. I'd hit the brakes and the RPM's would stay right where I left them and the TC stayed locked for a lot longer than I'm confortable with, even when hitting the brakes. Almost put me into the back of a car on one occasion. This is something that definetly didn't happen with my juice or the stock ECM. It started happening when I loaded the smarty.

My truck has done this too with the Smarty loaded into the ECM. Like you said, not fun.

 

[jltcasper3]

ViperQA1 what software version of smarty did you have? Maybe since bob sent it to you for a test it actually was the new updated version. With the 307 version it fuels really really strong down low.

 

[jnelson]

I ran my Juice to on a recent trip to coffeeville KA and averaged 18. 06 mpg (hand figured) on setting 2. That was pulling a 16 ft. car hauler. About 1800 lbs. I like the Edge so much i got 2!!

 

[ohnoitsyu]

How did you determine your average mileage?



In my opinion, the testing methods leave a lot to be desired in regards to consistency, therefore I think it's really hard to draw a conclusion from the information presented. Also, although the smarty may have some advantages, it sounds like it may be as a result of sacrifices elsewhere [reliability].



Even with all the hype of the smarty, I'll keep my Juice. And I still need to swap my beta unit with a production unit, which I have sitting on the bench just waiting for me.

 

[DieselFiend]

I determined my average mileage just like every one else does. I hand calculated it. I fuel up the same way every time and I've been keeping track of every drop of fuel that's gone into my tank since last Febuary.

The testing method was simple, load the smarty, drive it, and keep track of the mileage. Testing method was the same with the Juice. Now, explain how I can get consistantly worse fuel mileage with the juice running empty and get better fuel mileage running loaded with the smarty. That kind of says it all right there.

My opinion is this, the EPA rules got more strict and the timing in these trucks has been retarded quite a bit to give a cleaner burn. Simply giving it a timing advance will help you out in the economy department. Really, I don't give two craps about how clean it's burning. I just want good fuel economy and some ponies when I need it.

Try out the smarty and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Augie]

Augie, I ran the test on the 4th through the 8th of December so I didn't have the latest update. I had whatever Bob had on the box when he sent it to me.

Thanks ViperQA1, loaded mine today and sampled 1,3,5. I like 5 since I am mostly on highway with no pulling and easy on take offs. I can feel a little of the TC delay you described when taking foot off but the e-brake kind of covers it up. I got a thumbs up from a Ricer today when he could not pass me. I like it!

 

[DGStrate]

Add another one to the list for the hanging RPM issue...



Have seen this on an 03 and an 05 both...



You release the throttle, and the rpm stays high (as if throttle was still depressed)...



If you "blip" the accelerator past the point it was being held at, the engine seems to then respond normally and returns to idle...



A bit of a surprise when you are rapidly gaining on the car in front of you and try to slow down quickly!



NOTE: It is a very infrequent occurrence - maybe 3 or 4 times over 4 months and a lot of miles covered...

 

[DieselFiend]

Hopefully Marco and Bob are getting all this. I'd like to buy a smarty but the sticky throttle is too much of a safety concern for me. When I was on my trip to Canada, the hanging throttle/TC thing happened 3 times on the way up (16 Hours) and twice on the way way back. One time it hung, I was on a snow and ice covered road and hit the brakes trying to avoid a herd of deer. Of course the RPM's hung, TC stayed locked and I almost plowed one.

 

[Bodie]

Like it was said, some do it some don't, I bought mine from Pbax and it would do it on his auto while I have never had it do it to me with my G56. It is the same program and has never been updated. Just some do some dont. I dont know how in the world a normal juice w/att could spool faster than a Smarty, but you know the saying.....

 

[DieselFiend]

Like it was said, some do it some don't, I bought mine from Pbax and it would do it on his auto while I have never had it do it to me with my G56. It is the same program and has never been updated. Just some do some dont. I dont know how in the world a normal juice w/att could spool faster than a Smarty, but you know the saying.....

Yeah man, there's some lag there with the smarty. I don't feel it with the juice. The juice spools right away. The smarty turned my truck in to a molten red rocket once that little bit of lag was over. Either way, the juice is going up for sale and I have faith that marco will address the hanging throttle but I won't make the purchase until then.

 

[lcaad1249]

Like it was said, some do it some don't, I bought mine from Pbax and it would do it on his auto while I have never had it do it to me with my G56. It is the same program and has never been updated. Just some do some dont. I dont know how in the world a normal juice w/att could spool faster than a Smarty, but you know the saying.....

I think those are 2 completely different things. With the G56 you push in the clutch and it quits pulling. With the auto you let up on the gas and the truck keeps going.

 

[Bodie]

I think those are 2 completely different things. With the G56 you push in the clutch and it quits pulling. With the auto you let up on the gas and the truck keeps going.

Not really, when I let off the gas it has never kept going with the clutch engaged.

 

[DieselFiend]

Bodie, I think what Lcaad is trying to say is that you don't have a TC that locks and unlocks on it's own. You do it with your foot on the clutch. But in order for an auto transmission TC to unlock, the computer has to tell it that the brake is engaged and/or no throttle is applied. Somehow, the computer is all confused with the smarty telling it that the throttle is engaged. So, the RPM's stay where they're at and the TC stays locked until the computer figures out whats going on. It's probably getting two different signals at the same time because of the Smarty programming.