So Cal Diesel Fuel $ !@#$

[EGILLILAND]

Ok so, the middle east is a little busy right now. But crude prices came down again today... . and for the last week, diesel prices in Southern California were hovering around the same as premium unleaded... $2. 30-2. 40. Then I saw it today. $2. 45 a gallon for diesel, premium for $2. 30. WOW. Anyone smart on the petroleum industry able to explain why the highly refined fuel prices are steady or dropping, whereas the minimally refined diesel fuels are increasing in cost? I'm real close to calling the state attorney general and start accusing fuel distributors of price gouging (highway robbery whatever else I can get away with).



I guess I could understand the price increase if there was some gigantic cold snap crossing the US causing home heating oil consumption to go up... . but last I looked 50's and 60's have been about everywhere lately across the country.



Thoughts Fellas? Is this some attack on our diesels to finally make them cost prohibitive to own?



Cheers,



Gill

 

[Flexiheep]

From what I understand the problem in Cali especially is the extremly limited refinery capacity. Basicaly they can make X gallons of refined fuel, to make more unleaded for the vocal gasser crowd they have to reduce diesel production (limited quantity leads to unlimited price). So that would be why when gas prices drop, #2 goes up and when gas prices rise #2 goes down (in Ventura county for the most part, till the last round)... Of course this shows how the companys are trying to squeeze every penny of profit out, I bet their production costs have risen like the consumer price. I guess that this must be the way it works, since consumers still buy, and no one I know has really changed their driving habits

For the most part that is what I have noticed, now if the regulatory people would allow more refinery capacity to be built we could reduce the price of all fuel..... Because a growing economy requires energy!

I may be wrong of course, so if someone else really knows... ... .

 

[OTRPU]

Ya, it's absurd, none of the haulers I know will run into CA with loads now, unless they happen to be from there. I won't run NV or CAN now either. They keep this up I guess I'll just sit at home.



Cheers,

Steve J.

 

[J&LRam]

fuel prices are up nation wide due to shortages caused by refineries cutting capacity to less than 50%, nation widw, and Bush administration pumping millions of barrels of crude into national oil reserves. If he doesn't nip this scheme in the bud we can go into another recession... ... ... JIM

 

[rrausch]

The cheap place I have always gone to for #2 is now $2. 29!

But I read in the news today that Crude has gone down a little in price. Hopefully we will see the effects at the pump soon.

 

[catoiler]

$ 2. 67 tonight at the ripoff station!Premium is $2. 30.

Wallyworld was $2. 18 when i went to work, on the way home $2. 30. Time to park the beast and drive the gasser for a while!

 

[EBottema]

I'm in socalif also... when i get my cummins, i'm going to buy fuel in 50 gallon drums (offroad red) never heard of a cop in los angeles area checking for red diesel so im not worried at all... . should be around 1. 50 a gallon



Erik



does anyone know an suppliers in the area for red diesel?

 

[Sticks]

Diesel is a byproduct of the refinery process for making unleaded gas! It is one of the first things to get skimmed off. If production goes up for gas, they should be swimming in diesel!

 

[MrWinkey]

I've changed my driving habits and it's only about 1. 85 around where I live. My wife works much closer so I car pool with her. She drops me off at the bus and picks me up on her way home.



. 60 cents versus 2 bucks a day in parking plus fuel.

 

[CFAR]

I think the gassers complained a lot about rising fuel prices for the summer, so the jacked up the price of diesel to compensate.

 

[gitchesum]

The high diesel prices you are seeing is somewhat of a result of what a lot of people want. More diesel powered vehicles.



The more diesel vehicles on the road, the higher the demand for diesel fuel. The higher the demand of diesel fuel, the higher the prices goes.

It's no secret that diesels have always gotten better mileage. Now auto manufacturers are making nice quiet powerful diesel engines. People are snatching them up. How many more Cummins/PSD/Duramax trucks do you see on the raod these days versus just 10 years ago? Lets not forget the VW TDI's on the road too.



As far a SoCal. You guys run a different diesel fuel than anyone else in the country. It's a lower sulfur/aromatic fuel. It has to be refined much more than EPA standard fuel. When you take hte sulfur out, you loose lubricity that has to be replaced, so an additive is used to bring the lubricity back up.





As far as gas goes, not only is the ecomonics of supply and demand in effect(more lower ecomony vehicles on the road, more gas is used), you've also have a nationwide ban on MTBE. It was used as an oxigenate in gasoline to lower emmisions. It's been replaced by Ethanol. Now, while Ethanol does benefit the farm industry, it also costs a bit more than MTBE did. Hence the higher prices.

 

[rrausch]

Originally posted by gitchesum

As far a SoCal. You guys run a different diesel fuel than anyone else in the country. It's a lower sulfur/aromatic fuel. It has to be refined much more than EPA standard fuel. When you take hte sulfur out, you loose lubricity that has to be replaced, so an additive is used to bring the lubricity back up.

gitchesum, how do you know this? I know the gas in Ca. is "reformulated" but I didn't know diesel was too. Are you sure?

 

[gitchesum]

Originally posted by rrausch

gitchesum, how do you know this? I know the gas in Ca. is "reformulated" but I didn't know diesel was too. Are you sure?

Yep. I run pipelines all over the LA area. We have to keep the CARB diesel seperate from the EPA diesel. California diesel has always been more expensive than most other states. It's just now becoming an issue since diesel prices all over the US are high.



Per ChevronTexaco website

The first environmental regulations governing diesel fuel composition took effect in 1985 in southern California. CARB limited the sulfur content to 0. 05% mass because of that region's severe air quality problems.

In October 1993, separate regulations from EPA and CARB took effect. The EPA set a maximum sulfur content of 0. 05% mass for on-road diesel fuel, nationwide. CARB applied this same limit to both off-road and on-road (vehicular) diesel fuel. In the other states, the limit on the sulfur content of off-road fuel is the ASTM D 975 limit of 0. 5% mass for high sulfur No. 2-D diesel fuel.



CARB also limited the aromatics content of vehicular diesel fuel to 10% volume maximum. Alternative formulations with higher aromatics contents are allowed if they have been demonstrated to achieve the same or lower emissions as a 10% aromatics reference fuel in a standardized engine test. Candidate alternative formulations are characterized by five properties: sulfur content, nitrogen content, aromatics content, polycyclic aromatics content, and cetane number. If the formulation passes the emissions test and receives CARB approval, any fuel manufactured under this alternative formulation must not exceed the sulfur, nitrogen, aromatics, and polycyclic aromatics contents of the candidate formulation and must not have a lower cetane number than the candidate formulation.



More than 20 alternative formulations have been approved by CARB. In fact, at this writing (Spring 1998), most of the diesel fuel sold in California is one of these alternative formulation fuels, rather than fuel with a 10% volume maximum aromatics content.



CARB estimates that the use of reformulated diesel fuel has reduced SO2 emissions by 82%, PM emissions by 25%, and NOx emissions by 7%, relative to the emissions that would have been generated by the continued use of pre-1993 high sulfur diesel fuel.

 

[gitchesum]

Something else to consider.



The government keeps setting new standards for gasoline and diesel. They don't tell the companies how to meet those standards, just that they have to meet them.



The companies are doing more R&D now than ever. Just like anything else, the extra costs involved get passed on to the consumer.

 

[rrausch]

Thanks! I'll go back to using my Lubricity Formula!

 

[gitchesum]

Originally posted by rrausch

Thanks! I'll go back to using my Lubricity Formula!

Actually a lubrication additive is used in the CARB diesel. It's also has a higher cetane rating than the EPA diesel. Usually over 50.

 

[EBottema]

Can anyone give me a name or phone number of any places in LA or Kern County that sell AG (red) deisel in 50 gal drums or will allow you to pump into your truck?



Thanks

erik

 

[bmoeller]

Originally posted by EBottema

will allow you to pump into your truck?

I doubt anyone will, if they know better. Depending on the percentage of off-road (red dye), if caught, will mean up to $10k+ in fines. $1k min. fine. Are you feeling lucky?



You would have to get it from the same supplier that farmers or construction companies get their off-road fuel.



I know some Flying J truckstops have it. Don't where though. Haven't seen any that I have been to that do.

 

[EBottema]

Flying J---way it works is you get a card, you use it and you pump regular #2 diesel (not dyed) and you get it for tax free adjusted price... Hoever, they do send a form to the IRS at the end of the year... But, IRS cant really prove if you used it for offroad or not... What do you all think about that irs form?

bad thing?

lol



erik

 

[catoiler]

Petro-lock up in lancaster has red fuel by the drum. I think it is running about $1. 95 a gal. (quote)"Hoever, they do send a form to the IRS at the end of the year... But, IRS cant really prove if you used it for offroad or not... "The IRS boys can tell and will fine if you claim it.