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Sobering info if you are not "legal."
- Thread starter Mtngoat
- Start Date
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I would not for a minute discount the advantages of a DRW, but ... two of the huge advantages of a 5er over a slide-in camper is that:
1) Only a portion of the camper weight is on the truck, and ...
2) The pin weight is always over the center of the axle so there is no tendency for the truck to roll in turns.
I would not even consider a SRW for any slide-in camper of any significance, but for pulling a 5er, it ain't too bad.
1) Only a portion of the camper weight is on the truck, and ...
2) The pin weight is always over the center of the axle so there is no tendency for the truck to roll in turns.
I would not even consider a SRW for any slide-in camper of any significance, but for pulling a 5er, it ain't too bad.
No Nick you didn't offend me I guess I just got alil carried away with my response and I hope I didn't offend you with mine. And anything with a high center of gravity or that can move in a pickup bed is nothing but trouble in my book. I've just found that by loading things different ways it can cause my truck and trailer to handle differently (for better or worse).
Nathan
Nathan
I think we are all on the same page here.
I agree FWIW that the only reason you would need a DRW for a pull trailer or 5er is if they are large enough to put you way over GVWR with the pin weight, but you guys are absolutely right, NOTHING induces sway like a slide-in camper. Personally, I wouldn't haul any slide-in other than a very light unit (8. 5' or less and 2,000 lbs or less dry and no basements) with a SRW ever again.
Cheers,
Dave
I agree FWIW that the only reason you would need a DRW for a pull trailer or 5er is if they are large enough to put you way over GVWR with the pin weight, but you guys are absolutely right, NOTHING induces sway like a slide-in camper. Personally, I wouldn't haul any slide-in other than a very light unit (8. 5' or less and 2,000 lbs or less dry and no basements) with a SRW ever again.
Cheers,
Dave
I think much of this problem of being under-truck'd comes because people want an all-in-one vehicle.
I bought my truck to tow my 28' GN horse trailer. It sucks as a daily commuter, too big, but it pulls my trailer great. People want a good commuter and a good HD tow rig, ususally you don't get both. You end up having to make sacrafices one way or the other. Often times they sacrafice towing ability for more car like riding characteristics.
I have a sports car that I commute in, my truck is for pulling trailers. I don't try and mix the two.
I bought my truck to tow my 28' GN horse trailer. It sucks as a daily commuter, too big, but it pulls my trailer great. People want a good commuter and a good HD tow rig, ususally you don't get both. You end up having to make sacrafices one way or the other. Often times they sacrafice towing ability for more car like riding characteristics.
I have a sports car that I commute in, my truck is for pulling trailers. I don't try and mix the two.
Trailering
Guys- I am a rookie on the site, but not to pullin' a trailer. I have been pullin for 35 yrs. and still do. My dad is 73 and still in the horse business. He has owned scores of trucks and pulls all the time. When I was shoppin' for a pullin' truck, he told me get a drw truck for stability when turning. The trailer tends to want to keep going straight and push the truck sideways in the corners. Jacked up rigs and soft sidewalls make it worse. I have witnessed the gradual evolution of guys that pull thousands of miles a year for a living to ever bigger trucks- from 350s to 450s to 550s and the majority now all run "Baby" Freightliners or Petes, the single drive axle ones. When I asked dad the reason for this, he said, "Bigger wheels and bigger brakes-it ain't how fast you can go, it's how fast you can shut 'er down when some fool pulls out in front of you". Just my $. 02
Dan
Guys- I am a rookie on the site, but not to pullin' a trailer. I have been pullin for 35 yrs. and still do. My dad is 73 and still in the horse business. He has owned scores of trucks and pulls all the time. When I was shoppin' for a pullin' truck, he told me get a drw truck for stability when turning. The trailer tends to want to keep going straight and push the truck sideways in the corners. Jacked up rigs and soft sidewalls make it worse. I have witnessed the gradual evolution of guys that pull thousands of miles a year for a living to ever bigger trucks- from 350s to 450s to 550s and the majority now all run "Baby" Freightliners or Petes, the single drive axle ones. When I asked dad the reason for this, he said, "Bigger wheels and bigger brakes-it ain't how fast you can go, it's how fast you can shut 'er down when some fool pulls out in front of you". Just my $. 02
Dan
Can anyone explain to me why the insurance company can just drop you because you are overweight? I know this guy only had $300k, but wouldn't a million dollar umbrela policy cover this?
Hauling overweight isn't anymore illegal than driving drunk or street racing, all of which usually gets covered from what I've been told. That guy was obviously doing more than a few things wrong to cause that wreck.
I think weight limits and pulling speed limits are set because mostly because of damage concerns to the roads and bridges. At least pertaining semis. You can haul overweight with a tractor trailer legally if you buy the permits. Permits don't make the truck any safer. I read somewhere that Texas sets their truck/trailer speed limits because the engineers determined that highways take a lot less of a beating at lower speeds like 55 or 60.
Hauling overweight isn't anymore illegal than driving drunk or street racing, all of which usually gets covered from what I've been told. That guy was obviously doing more than a few things wrong to cause that wreck.
I think weight limits and pulling speed limits are set because mostly because of damage concerns to the roads and bridges. At least pertaining semis. You can haul overweight with a tractor trailer legally if you buy the permits. Permits don't make the truck any safer. I read somewhere that Texas sets their truck/trailer speed limits because the engineers determined that highways take a lot less of a beating at lower speeds like 55 or 60.
Doesn't it seem odd to anyone that in less than a year, this guy:
A) got divorced
B) settled a major dollar insurance claim, presumably involving litagation
C) lost a million dollar plus civil lawsuit
In my experience, it is very odd for any single one of these to take less than one year. The only divorce I've heard of finalized in less than a year involved a serious felony conviction- and the divorce wasn't started until after the conviction.
A) got divorced
B) settled a major dollar insurance claim, presumably involving litagation
C) lost a million dollar plus civil lawsuit
In my experience, it is very odd for any single one of these to take less than one year. The only divorce I've heard of finalized in less than a year involved a serious felony conviction- and the divorce wasn't started until after the conviction.
DanWilson said:
Amen to that. Same thing my Granddaddy told me. He is 88.
Going back to the start (p1) of this discussion. What possesses folks to overload? Never mind engineered capacity vs what the manufacturers' lawyers are comfortable with. The fact is that the roads are fairly clogged in the summer with folks who are exceeding their braking capacity or that of their suspension, or their ability to react, no matter how highly they are or were paid.
From my perch, I see a link between these problems and the mentality that leads soccer families to believe that their Ford Explorers, Excursions, Extravagants, and Excessives somehow insulate them from the reality of the dangers of driving in traffic. With so many folks driving smaller vehicles, the large ones pose the greatest potential for damage or injury. They are the hazard and don't realize it. When I, and a lot of the folks with blinders on, were growing up, the groceries came home in one of two wagons -- Mom's Rambler or my Radio Flyer -- not in the back seat in front of the empty bed with the hard shell tonneau of Mom's Escalade. The very notion of that is long gone.
These folks act to insulate themselves from injury, without consideration of the potential their vehicles have for injuring others. There -- that's the most common thread in the entire conversation. Folks that couldn't roller skate defensively, driving 12-15- ton rigs down the road. Because they can.
I'll allow that some are victims of RV salesmen. Some of their egos, as my rant suggests. Some failed or avoided physics in high school and haven't a clue.
If you've hung around these boards any time at all, "You are your own warranty station," is a familiar phrase. Taking someone else's family out is a far sight more costly than cooking your 48-RE or melting a piston top. It should be.
Rant over.
From my perch, I see a link between these problems and the mentality that leads soccer families to believe that their Ford Explorers, Excursions, Extravagants, and Excessives somehow insulate them from the reality of the dangers of driving in traffic. With so many folks driving smaller vehicles, the large ones pose the greatest potential for damage or injury. They are the hazard and don't realize it. When I, and a lot of the folks with blinders on, were growing up, the groceries came home in one of two wagons -- Mom's Rambler or my Radio Flyer -- not in the back seat in front of the empty bed with the hard shell tonneau of Mom's Escalade. The very notion of that is long gone.
These folks act to insulate themselves from injury, without consideration of the potential their vehicles have for injuring others. There -- that's the most common thread in the entire conversation. Folks that couldn't roller skate defensively, driving 12-15- ton rigs down the road. Because they can.
I'll allow that some are victims of RV salesmen. Some of their egos, as my rant suggests. Some failed or avoided physics in high school and haven't a clue.
If you've hung around these boards any time at all, "You are your own warranty station," is a familiar phrase. Taking someone else's family out is a far sight more costly than cooking your 48-RE or melting a piston top. It should be.
Rant over.
Bumper pulls are stupid for something that size. Have you ever seen a 5th wheel or gooseneck properly loaded start swaying like a bumper pull. I am safer pulling 13K on a gooseneck than half that on a bumper pull.
Check out http://xj.cdevco.net/auto/dodgetowing for my take on it in detail.
Check out http://xj.cdevco.net/auto/dodgetowing for my take on it in detail.
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PatrickCampbell said:
Interesting that your 'take' seems to advocate exceeding the manufacturers weight ratings, yet you say bumper pulls are stupid?
(yeah I also read the disclaimer at the top)In an accident, guess what the police are going to use (bet it's not your formulas ).
Actually my 9,500# bumper pull tracks better with no sway than did its 6,500# predecessor. And both are legal.
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nps said:Interesting that your 'take' seems to advocate exceeding the manufacturers weight ratings, yet you say bumper pulls are stupid?
In an accident, guess what the police are going to use (bet it's not your formulas ).
Actually my 9,500# bumper pull tracks better with no sway than did its 6,500# predecessor. And both are legal.
Uh... I'm "calling bumper pulls stupid" in compared to gooseneck and 5th wheel trailers, especially in the situation like this guy pulling a large toy hauler. You are saying I am calling them stupid as if bumper pulls are superior to gooseneck or 5th wheel? Bumper pull has its place, but 5th wheel and gooseneck are FAR safer in every circumstance that I can think of.
"My formulas" are FMCSA formulas. That is the FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION. That is what the DOT police would go by if they pulled you over. I didn't pull them out of the air.
I don't "advocate" driving like an idiot, pulling an oversized toy hauler with a bumper pull. I advocate safety and the knowledge of what the limits of your truck are. Our trucks are clearly under rated. I'm not advocating going over the real ratings but knowing and safely using them as necessary. The fact is that Dodge's manufacturer's ratings are so obviously "bogus" in many ways:
A 3500 dually with 3. 73s, a 3500 single rear wheel with 4. 10s, Dodge rates the dually to 21,000# GCWR and the single rear wheel is rated to 23,000# GCW.
Dodge has "more important" things to care about than GVW/GCWR like warrantying parts and marketing their heavier trucks.
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PatrickCampbell said:
Guess what, Patrick, that 23K isn't a joke at all - I'm usually right at that weight when on the road - and, in fact, is based upon the performance of a stock truck. :-laf
I know it's not a joke, it's from Dodge's towing site. What performance are we talking about?
I am pointing out the stupdity in this rating--and therefore showing that Dodge's ratings are not entirely about safety but more about their warranty.
4. 10's regardless of dually or single rear wheel is less stress on the engine, drivetrain, transmission, etc. , which is why Dodge will "rate" you to tow that much more with it.
4. 10's is NOT in ANY WAY more safe to tow 2000 additional pounds.
And an out-of-the-box dually is not LESS safe to tow equal weight than a single rear wheel regardless of gearing.
If Dodge says a 6spd 4. 10 single rear wheel can haul 23,000# why can't a automatic 3. 73 single rear wheel, let alone a DUALLY auto 3. 73?????? The answer is NOT safety, it's Dodge looking after their bank account.
Again, not saying you can tow 50K like some people do, just pointing out the idiosyncrasies here.
I am pointing out the stupdity in this rating--and therefore showing that Dodge's ratings are not entirely about safety but more about their warranty.
4. 10's regardless of dually or single rear wheel is less stress on the engine, drivetrain, transmission, etc. , which is why Dodge will "rate" you to tow that much more with it.
4. 10's is NOT in ANY WAY more safe to tow 2000 additional pounds.
And an out-of-the-box dually is not LESS safe to tow equal weight than a single rear wheel regardless of gearing.
If Dodge says a 6spd 4. 10 single rear wheel can haul 23,000# why can't a automatic 3. 73 single rear wheel, let alone a DUALLY auto 3. 73?????? The answer is NOT safety, it's Dodge looking after their bank account.
Again, not saying you can tow 50K like some people do, just pointing out the idiosyncrasies here.
This hole thread is because people dont care(CARE) Dont care if they are doing somthing wrong and someone else gets hurt, and when they get caught they blame me or you. Few people will take RESPONDSIBILTY for their actions. Too bad thats the country we live in. Guns kill people not the murders that I think should be lynched. PS I am running for Pres!!!
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Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
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