Sobering info if you are not "legal."

[nps]

What would happen if someone is pulling a trailer that is within the weight limits (GAWR, GVWR, GCWR) but is not following the mfg's towing requirements, specifically, not using a weight distributing hitch and is involved in an accident?

Not law enforcement, but you have exceeded the hitch specs if you aren't using bars. So IMO same as exceeding GCWR.

 

[OTRPU]

Horsepuller, such common sense, and out of California. . . I'm impressed and pleased. D. Wilson, good listenin to dad. . . he's seen lots more piles. . . now you don't have to step in it to know it's crap. And to the copper's and the DOTter's. . . more power to ya. I don't have the answer, keep asking myself C2C & B2B. . . why is it socially acceptable to exceed the speed limits? Doesn't say, "if you feel like it", doesn't say it's "optional". So, we're all sayin it's acceptable for a percentage of the population to die unnecessarily. Overweight. . . slow down. . . you're already stretchin the point. When you're out there all day everyday you have to fight it gettin to ya. I live with the big trucks, and think pro driver's are some of the worst these days. Instead of impressin people with how you look, impress um with how you act. I've seen more'n a few piles myself, actually lucky to be alive. I drive duallies for alittle extra measure of safety. Thinking. . . if one rear tire blows, I have another. Maybe have more experience at this than anybody else in the world. . . right rear axle'n duallies left the truck. . . twice. Decided that was so much fun. . . thought I'd see what having the right front corner leave the truck with a load was like. Fact the trailer brakes er what stopped me. And I have service done on schedule, like a religion. If I can convnice just one of you that's overloaded to slow down I'd be simply thrilled. Life. . . it's really all that matters. Be Safe.



#ad




Cheers,

Steve J

 

[Ron Bissett]

I have a 2000 quad cab short bed 2500. I would like to buy a cab-over camper and have been aware of the overload issues vs the law/insurance etc.

The 1st thing I do when looking at a camper is look at the dry weight placard.

Have you readers noticed how much these things weigh? With a GVWR of

8800 lbs and an empty weight of 6000, I have only 2800 lbs to work with.

Only the smallest of the so called "lite versions" would work. (say 2000 lbs) However with a 250-300 lb tongue weight of my boat trailer and 400 lbs of people & dog, I am already at close to 8800 lbs BEFORE we add water/gear or options to the cab-over etc.....

I just bought this truck 1. 5 years ago and it only has 53k on it. !! But it looks

like I need a 3500. Am I correct in my thinking?

If I am correct, then I believe that almost every rig like this, that I see on weekends is also OVER GROSS.

P. S: the camper dealers all try to sell airbags as the cure but I'm not buying it. and a lot of the cab-overs that I'm looking at would over gross a 3500 as well. Bummed in PHX. Why even design/build something like this?

Money////////////// off the lot and you are on your own . Air bags do not help you stop . Ron Bissett in metro Louisville KY

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Ron, the brakes on a 3500 are the same as those on a 2500... ... . 3500 is just heavier, it doesn't stop better.

 

[jwduke]

If bumper hitches are so great, why do over the road trucks use a 5th wheel hitch? Its more stable, thats why.



California has some REALLY goofy laws, anyhow. They have this law that if they can prove you 1% in the wrong, you are 100% wrong.



The company I drive for, one of our drivers was involved in a accident with a idiot, not wanting to follow the semi thru a road construction area. The guy decides to pass before hand, looses it, hits a car head on going the other way. He kills his wife, and turns himself into a vegetable, Well his over priced lawyer, finds a witness that claims our driver was putting more power to his truck, when he was actually gearing down, to slow down. That makes our driver now 1% at fault. Our company is now faced with a $2,000,000+ claim, because of some guy who didn't want to follow... .



Only in good old California!!!

 

[brods]

Not law enforcement, but you have exceeded the hitch specs if you aren't using bars. So IMO same as exceeding GCWR.

What if I change the hitch? I have been emailing Chrysler customer service and getting the standard non-answers (might as well bang my head on the wall).



My concern is that the law might defer to the manufacturer’s requirements for the vehicle. This could mean that even if I were to put an aftermarket class V hitch on I would still be bound by the ridiculously low 3500 lbs weight carrying rating Dodge has and that would suck. GM allows up to a 7500 lb trailer weight carrying, so why is Dodge so low? CYA or weak design?



The question is: does the law acknowledge any aftermarket modifications to improve the truck's towing ability, in this case an improved class V hitch, and allow a higher weight carrying rating than the factory number?

 

[RMcCulloch]

What performance are we talking about?

Accelleration and braking - can you merge easily with freeway traffic and can you stop your combination within a reasonable distance.



A stock 3rd gen has no problems with either, even if on a grade. :-laf



As to the "GCWR", the only place that that is mentioned is in the various "Towing Guides" - when the badge-toting weight police check things they look at the sum of the GVWRs to see if you need a Class A/Commercial license. Then they weigh at each axle to see if you're overweight.

 

[RMcCulloch]

What if I change the hitch? I have been emailing Chrysler customer service and getting the standard non-answers (might as well bang my head on the wall). ?

Changing the hitch makes no difference in the ratings.

My concern is that the law might defer to the manufacturer’s requirements for the vehicle. This could mean that even if I were to put an aftermarket class V hitch on I would still be bound by the ridiculously low 3500 lbs weight carrying rating Dodge has and that would suck. GM allows up to a 7500 lb trailer weight carrying, so why is Dodge so low? CYA or weak design??

The GVWR ratings are set by the manufacturer at the time that the vehicle is built and cannot, thereafter, be changed.

The question is: does the law acknowledge any aftermarket modifications to improve the truck's towing ability, in this case an improved class V hitch, and allow a higher weight carrying rating than the factory number?

The GVWR ratings are set by the manufacturer at the time that the vehicle is built and cannot, thereafter, be changed.



You can take comfort that the laws do not even mention GCWR or "Tow Rating".



Your Insurance Agent can tell you if your policy makes any reference to either GCWR or Tow Rating.

 

[dresslered]

Another point is the amount he was insured for. $300,000 is not nearly enough.

Yeah, I would have to agree to watch the limits, but as Dane said, the guy was grossly underinsured. If you have a home, vacation home, and lots of toys, why wouldn't you have an umbrella policy? I know that I do just in case I accidentally side swipe that row of Mercedes'. :{

 

[brods]

Changing the hitch makes no difference in the ratings.



The GVWR ratings are set by the manufacturer at the time that the vehicle is built and cannot, thereafter, be changed.



The GVWR ratings are set by the manufacturer at the time that the vehicle is built and cannot, thereafter, be changed.



You can take comfort that the laws do not even mention GCWR or "Tow Rating".



Your Insurance Agent can tell you if your policy makes any reference to either GCWR or Tow Rating.

Not talking about increasing the GVWR, GAWRs, or GCWR. Wondering about the legal lability of towing without a weight distribution system. Dodge has weight distribution system as a "requirement" for trailers over 3500 lbs.



I could understand if I were to tow 10,000 lbs on the stock hitch and it were to rip off the truck, I would be libel since I did not follow the manufacturers requirements. If I upgrade the stock hitch to a class V and had an accident while towing 10,000 lbs without a weight distribution system, could that be used against me in court? As this thread shows, you could loose everything you have if you make the wrong choices!

 

[DHorstman]

Hauling overweight isn't anymore illegal than driving drunk or street racing, all of which usually gets covered from what I've been told.

Not from what I've seen. Friend of mine just out of highschool totalled his Mustang GT drag racing. Insurance didn't cover any $$ for his car. I'll give him this, he stepped up to the plate and paid it off on his own.

 

[4xquadrod]

I tow an inclosed trailer with my Motorhome. My moterhome empty has, in my opinion inferior brakes. With my trailer added (6 extra tires with brakes) the moterhome seems to stop on a dime. I just about don't want to drive the thing without the trailer.

 

[Tee]

As this thread shows, you could loose everything you have if you make the wrong choices!

In the "Sue everybody" mentality of today? You could loose everthing even if you make all the RIGHT choices!



This thread needs to die.

 

[Ron Bissett]

inferior brakes ?

I tow an inclosed trailer with my Motorhome. My moterhome empty has, in my opinion inferior brakes. With my trailer added (6 extra tires with brakes) the moterhome seems to stop on a dime. I just about don't want to drive the thing without the trailer.

Brakes adjusted? have you adjusted them lately . If self adjusting have you backed up at ten or so mph and slam-ed on the brakes to adjust the brakes. If disk brakes inspected the brakes and liners . ? The brakes should stop the MH as you say on a dime ,or you could be doing time. Joke; Ron Bissett in Metro Louisville kY P. S Brakes ,Don't leave home without them. :-laf

 

[RMcCulloch]

Not talking about increasing the GVWR, GAWRs, or GCWR. Wondering about the legal lability of towing without a weight distribution system. Dodge has weight distribution system as a "requirement" for trailers over 3500 lbs.



I could understand if I were to tow 10,000 lbs on the stock hitch and it were to rip off the truck, I would be libel since I did not follow the manufacturers requirements. If I upgrade the stock hitch to a class V and had an accident while towing 10,000 lbs without a weight distribution system, could that be used against me in court? As this thread shows, you could loose everything you have if you make the wrong choices!

The weight distribution system's function is to shift weight onto the truck's suspension rather than to have it levering the front end into the air. (These trucks don't steer very well when doing "wheelies" down the freeway. )



The key issue is the weight pressing DOWN on the hitch - not the weight being pulled - since, with normal loading, that 3,500 lb. trailer should be running from 350 - 500 lb. hitch weight. If you've loaded the heavy stuff towards the front (hitch) then the hitch weight will be even higher. Your hypothetical 10,000 lb trailer, BTW, will have a hitch weight from 1,000 to 1,500 lb. with a normal 10% - 15% loading.



Properly adjusted, a weight distribution hitch should have your truck sitting level with the trailer attached. Without one, you'll be low in back - about like having 350-500 pounds of lead sitting on the tailgate for that notional 3,500 lb. trailer or 1,000 - 1,500 lb. for the heavier one.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Thanks for posting this!



When we bought the 35' triple slide I decided to sell my 2500 and get a 3500 dually. We have spent a ton (pun intended) of $ re-equipping the 3500 with the goodies.



The 2500 towed the 35' RV just fine but the tires, even at 80PSI showed the over load.



This thread makes me feel real good about my decision to get a dually. I really feel bad for the guy though. He life is messed up forever now and he didnt even intend to harm anyone.

 

[TRCM]

Well, here's my question. The FCMSA says:



Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle --



(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater



The inspector I talked to said this even applies to not for hire POV's, not just the big rigs.







So, I have a 97 3500 dually. My trucks gvwr is 11,000 lbs, and the gvwr of my 24 ft gn trailer is 14,000 lbs. Combined that is 25,000 lbs. The owners manual says I can pull 18,000 lbs. Loaded, I am at about 17,000 lbs (truck - 7500, trailer-4400, load-5200). I am safely within the limits of the truck & trailer, but I need a CDL to do it ??



I am under the 26,000 lb limit, but do I really need a CDL because both vehicles individually are above 10,000 lbs ???



how many of you have one ??

 

[Eric_77]

This is the key wording interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle --



If you are engaged in businesses that you are traveling across state lines for then you are under FMCSA rules Intrastate the business use rules vary by state some set them at 10,001 others are set much higher (like TX it is 26,001 same as CDL)



Further answering question you can be under FMSCA rules for logs, DOT numbering, etc but not need a CDL(other than Haz Mat) that range from 10,001-26,000 that a Class C license covers.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Mark are you hauling things related to your business or pleasure?



Either way, the 10,001 pound rule means simply that you have to comply with FMCSA rules, not get a CDL.



A commercial motor vehicle with a GCW/GVW under 10,0001 doesn't have to follow any FMCSA rules (NO hours of service, NO USDOT #, no MC #, etc). Over 10,000 you DO, and then over 26,000, you need a CDL.



Some individual states require a CDL if the trailer is over 10,000# which I don't quite understand since CDL rules are governed by the fed not the state. Anyway, most states say no CDL unless over 26,000 GVW or GCWR. That would be either the GVW of the truck, the GVW of the truck + the GVW of the trailer, or the GVW of the truck + any weight thereon, but HOPEFULLY GVW of truck + any weight theron is NOT more than GVW of truck + GVW of trailer, otherwise you are going to inherently be ... . overweight.

 

[TRCM]

Well, I asked him specifically, and explained that I was not for hire, and that this was strictly for pleasure. He said I still needed a cdl if my trailer or truck either one had a gvw over 10,001.



So i guess all the soccer moms out there driving the hubbies 3500 dually need a cdl to ??



I hate this communist wealth !!!