Sobering info if you are not "legal."

[PatrickCampbell]

Ignore him and don't worry about it



What state is it?

 

[Diesel Nut]

I must agree that many pull over the limit, and many of them drive like madmen. But, there are many questions to be answered by several different groups about these ratings. As said, and I agree, that BRAKES are about the most important thing that affects the safety of you and your load, followed very closely by tires and appropriate vehicle hardware. Now, yes these pionts can be argued but my theory is that it don't matter what flipping gears you have, they ain't gonna keep you from running over that jack ***** that wants to do 90 when everyone else is doing 70. So why the differnce? Next question, and it bears a little bit on the DMV. How can my friend, who runs a company drilling holes for fences and trees and stuff, buy a brand new 3500 QC 4x4, DRW, Cummins, 6 sped 3. 73 gears and add a gooseneck hitch go down to DMV and register the truck for a GCWR of 35K?!? No BS, he did it and does it. He pulls a flatbed goosneck trailer with a Terex Backhoe and all the fixins for it. Does he drive like crazy? Hell no, he is quite defensive. But still the question is, how valid is this manufacturer rating. BTW, this all goes on in CA. So, is he legal? His registration says 35K, and he tows around 32. 5K loaded down. he's 2500 lbs under his "max" Also, he knows how to drive. Bumber pulls are a handfull, I had one, and I was always on the trailers binders trying to square her up. But some of these guys don't know about that, or anything about towing other than how to park it next to the house. I think lack of experience and failure to recognize hazards (speed, wind, other drivers, shifting loads), as well as mods to truck that may have adverse affects on towing safety. One last thing that was only touched on - Maintenance is key! Wore out brakes don't do squat! Worn shocks, loose coupler lock, underinflated tires, ect. all afect your towing safety margin. I tow alot and I always check things out before and throughout my trip, however short it may be. I set and check my brakes every time I uncouple. Just some habits I have picked up. IMO, RV dealers should be required to give some sort of safety class to first timers, and I think it should be required on your lisence. Just my little rant . . .

 

[TRCM]

Ignore him and don't worry about it



What state is it?

the lovely communist wealth of VA

 

[GAmes]

the lovely communist wealth of VA

After 2 tours at Ft. Eustis, a Newport News born wife and three Hampton born children I can feel your pain. However, if you are not for hire don't worry about a CDL. If you are for hire and the truck and trailer GCWRs add up to less than 26,001 pounds, again, don't worry about a CDL.

 

[mysteryman]

Responsibility and Education

I read the story about the guy who had the wreck... . It was sad... . I feel sorry for the person that got killed ... . More so for the spouse and child that lived that is now alone due to some one else's stupidity!!!!!



I see this form of stupidity on this site every time I read the posts... ...

The lift kits, the 500 hp engines, the 4 foot tall tires, the 40 foot trailers that are being hauled ect by some of the folks on here... . And lets not forget the guys that heat weld and bend steering linkage and suspension parts.....



I find it interesting that so many out there think that they know more about

vehicle design and manufacture than the engineers did that designed them... .



Lift kits should be outlawed 100%... ... They are not safe and throw ALL of the chassis geometry out of spec... .

I recall a case I testified in some 15 years ago. I was one of the expert witnesses for Chrysler in a law suit that was filed against us.

The case involved a consumer that had an 83 W250... . He put a 10" lift kit

in it and had 38" tires on it... . While traveling down the highway the rear drive shaft flew off . It ended up going threw the glass of another car impaling the driver. A 34 year old mother of 3..... in a Ford Escort..... The Escort hit the Jersey barrier flew over then landing in the on coming lanes... . A tractor trailer then lost control setting off a 23 car pile up..... The 34 year old mother of 3 was killed instantly along with 2 of her children... .

The attorneys for the driver of the W250 claimed that Chrysler was to blame due to our poorly designed drive shaft , u joint straps and yoke... .

On the stand I pointed out that we had produced the 7260 u joints for about 28 years... . That they were not designed at operate at a 42 degree angle nor was the W250 chassis safe to operate with its ride height raised 10" nor was it safe to raise the body up off the frame 6" . . I spent 3 hours explaining to the jury why all of these claims were factual... It basically was a 3 hour class in mechanical engineering... I concluded that it was the improper modifications that the consumer had made that caused the u joint and yoke to fail. Not the design of the parts.



The modifications that he made to the truck were both improper and unsafe. They did not meet any of the DOT guidelines and that it was those modifications and the speed at which he was traveling at that caused the driveshaft to fly off... ...

The jury ruled that it was not the fault of Chrysler or its products ... .

The husband of woman that was killed later went on to get a judgment for millions against the owner of the W250 not to mention the others that filed

suits againts the consumer.



The owner of W250 had neither the education nor the experience to be making the modifications that he did in the way that he did...

But he felt that making his truck "look cool" was more important than everyone else's safety. He thought that he knew more about automotive engineering than the men that designed and built the trucks... . Never mind the fact that he had not even bothered to finish high school. After all school is just for stupid people ... ... ... ...



Please excuse my attitude... ... The above case left a lasting impression on me... . I can still see the pictures of the woman with the drive shaft stuck in her and her 2 kids crushed to death in my mind even after all these years... .



Every time I see a pickup truck hauling an excessively large or heavy trailer,

Every time I see a jacked up truck with tall tires speeding down the road those pictures flash in my mind... ... Along with a few from other cases I was involved with over the years... .



We are all free to do as we see fit in our own lives. But the decisions we make we will also be held accountable for... . Ignorance is no excuse!!!!

It is each and every individuals responsibility to properly educate themselves before they make their decisions or actions... It is not and should not be the responsibility of the government or the manufacturers or anyone else to educate us or protect us from ourselves... ... .



I am not a fan of the "big brother" form of government at all !!!! But with the amount of stupid people out there doing the things that they do. I certainly can understand why the "big brother" theory cam about... .



In Germany today you are not allowed to do ANY modifications to a vehicle outside of factory spec's... . If you are caught with a modified vehicle on the roads the fines are stiff!!!!! If they cause an accident you WILL be going to jail. .

It will one day be like that here if people keep on doing some of the stupid things that they do with motor vehicles... .



As a rule of thumb it is best to leave things alone that you do not understand. Your vehicle will last longer, be more reliable and everyone around it stand a better chance of living a longer life.....



The GVW sticker on the door jamb was not a joke!!! We were not kidding!!!

Chrysler built pickup trucks... . They are referred to as "light trucks" for a reason... They are NOT road tractors, they are NOT front end loaders nor are they aircraft.....



I will get off my soap box now... . To those of you out there that are responsible... This was not directed at any of you... . Those of you with the lift kits ,gumbo tires, welded pitman arms, mega HP engines, 40 ft trailers ect. This was directed at YOU! If I offended you I am glad!! You are screwing things up for everyone else... Get with the program !



The true difference I have found between ignorance and stupidity is simple... ... ...

Ignorance can be cured with education!! Stupidity has proven to most always be terminal... It must be genetic...

I must agree that many pull over the limit, and many of them drive like madmen. But, there are many questions to be answered by several different groups about these ratings. As said, and I agree, that BRAKES are about the most important thing that affects the safety of you and your load, followed very closely by tires and appropriate vehicle hardware. Now, yes these pionts can be argued but my theory is that it don't matter what flipping gears you have, they ain't gonna keep you from running over that jack ***** that wants to do 90 when everyone else is doing 70. So why the differnce? Next question, and it bears a little bit on the DMV. How can my friend, who runs a company drilling holes for fences and trees and stuff, buy a brand new 3500 QC 4x4, DRW, Cummins, 6 sped 3. 73 gears and add a gooseneck hitch go down to DMV and register the truck for a GCWR of 35K?!? No BS, he did it and does it. He pulls a flatbed goosneck trailer with a Terex Backhoe and all the fixins for it. Does he drive like crazy? Hell no, he is quite defensive. But still the question is, how valid is this manufacturer rating. BTW, this all goes on in CA. So, is he legal? His registration says 35K, and he tows around 32. 5K loaded down. he's 2500 lbs under his "max" Also, he knows how to drive. Bumber pulls are a handfull, I had one, and I was always on the trailers binders trying to square her up. But some of these guys don't know about that, or anything about towing other than how to park it next to the house. I think lack of experience and failure to recognize hazards (speed, wind, other drivers, shifting loads), as well as mods to truck that may have adverse affects on towing safety. One last thing that was only touched on - Maintenance is key! Wore out brakes don't do squat! Worn shocks, loose coupler lock, underinflated tires, ect. all afect your towing safety margin. I tow alot and I always check things out before and throughout my trip, however short it may be. I set and check my brakes every time I uncouple. Just some habits I have picked up. IMO, RV dealers should be required to give some sort of safety class to first timers, and I think it should be required on your lisence. Just my little rant . . .

 

[pcarlson]

Wow this is getting long



Let's see:

1. Drive like an idiot, loaded/unloaded, get sued or dead.

2. Register your vehicle for your weight your going to use it for

(WI, I can register my truck for GVW of 12,000 or greater)

3. Learn to drive with the load, alot of city dwellers are buying these diesels

and buy the biggest damn trailer they can and don't know squat about the

truck or trailer.

4. Some pull and don't use trailer brakes

5. Worn parts and poor maintenence cause problems.

6. 10k is still the magic number that manufacturers don't cross often, i. e.

3500 SRW GVW 9900, due to regulatory issues going over 10k.

7. CDL doesn't mean you can drive. Look at all the 18 wheelers in the ditch

and in accidents. Look at how many just pull right out in front of you

now when your loaded/unloaded.

8. GVW on the door isn't worth the paper its written on.

9. Am I over with my 5er? Yes

10. Common sense should prevail. Always use caution loaded/unloaded.

11. You would think the RV/trailer industry would set regulations on what

can pull their trailers and not sell to owners that don't have a big enough

vehicle.

12. You don't need to be overloaded to get sued or ticketed in an accident.

13. Look how many 1/2 tons are pulling big TT and 5er's.



What did I miss?

 

[Eric_77]

Well, I asked him specifically, and explained that I was not for hire, and that this was strictly for pleasure. He said I still needed a cdl if my trailer or truck either one had a gvw over 10,001.



So i guess all the soccer moms out there driving the hubbies 3500 dually need a cdl to ??



I hate this communist wealth !!!

Well the CDL is basically a federal driver's license and falls under FMCSA rules.



They issue three licenses Class A truck and trailer over 26,000 and trailer over 10,000, Class B Truck over 26,000 with no trailer or trailer under 10,000, then Class C vehicle gross under 26,000 carrying Haz Mat or over 15 passengers.



Now some of the states have messed with this and issue a Class D or other license (not consistent from state to state some issue C that is same as other state D) that is limited to 10,000 gross. Then another licnese (the flip of C/D) that is from 10,001-26,000. This is NOT a CDL license but you may check as you may need this license in VA not a true CDL license.

 

[Mike Ellis]

I think you can boil down the facts into a few simple statements:



1. The manufacturers set GVWR and GCWR at the numbers they do, for a reason. Going beyond those numbers may leave you :{



2. Your vehicle will NOT handle the same loaded, as it does unloaded. If you don't adjust your driving accordingly, you may end up :{



3. Your vehicle will NOT handle the same pulling a trailer, as it does without one. If you don't adjust your driving accordingly, you may end up :{



4. If you're driving heavy, SLOW DOWN some and be extra careful for cripe's sake. You know it's the reasonable thing to do. If you don't adjust your driving accordingly, you may end up :{



5. As with all things, know the limitations of your equipment and yourself. If your ego or greed writes checks that you and your gear can't cover, you may end up :{



6. And most importantly of all: KYTOYA (Keep yer thumb outta yer aperture), and you will probably be instead of :{

 

[Mike Ellis]

Almost forgot #7:



7. HANG UP THE &*^%$!!! CELL PHONE AND DRIVE!





Coming back from Houston last week, we were on I-35 north of Waco in the typical heavy traffic when I notice in the rear-view mirror a bus coming up weaving in and out of lanes. As it closes, I see it's not a bus but instead a bus conversion motorhome (a NICE Prevost with more chrome and paint than a low-rider festival), being driven by a middle-aged woman with one hand on the wheel and the other pressing a cell-phone to her ear. She was driving about 80 and whipping that coach around like a go-kart, scared the living $%^!! outta me when she blazed past. Guess her husband was either taking a nap, or talking to her on the cellphone from the bathroom #@$%!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I read the story about the guy who had the wreck... . It was sad... . I feel sorry for the person that got killed ... . More so for the spouse and child that lived that is now alone due to some one else's stupidity!!!!!



I see this form of stupidity on this site every time I read the posts... ...

The lift kits, the 500 hp engines, the 4 foot tall tires, the 40 foot trailers that are being hauled ect by some of the folks on here... . And lets not forget the guys that heat weld and bend steering linkage and suspension parts.....



I find it interesting that so many out there think that they know more about

vehicle design and manufacture than the engineers did that designed them... .



Lift kits should be outlawed 100%... ... They are not safe and throw ALL of the chassis geometry out of spec... .

I recall a case I testified in some 15 years ago. I was one of the expert witnesses for Chrysler in a law suit that was filed against us.

The case involved a consumer that had an 83 W250... . He put a 10" lift kit

in it and had 38" tires on it... . While traveling down the highway the rear drive shaft flew off . It ended up going threw the glass of another car impaling the driver. A 34 year old mother of 3..... in a Ford Escort..... The Escort hit the Jersey barrier flew over then landing in the on coming lanes... . A tractor trailer then lost control setting off a 23 car pile up..... The 34 year old mother of 3 was killed instantly along with 2 of her children... .

The attorneys for the driver of the W250 claimed that Chrysler was to blame due to our poorly designed drive shaft , u joint straps and yoke... .

On the stand I pointed out that we had produced the 7260 u joints for about 28 years... . That they were not designed at operate at a 42 degree angle nor was the W250 chassis safe to operate with its ride height raised 10" nor was it safe to raise the body up off the frame 6" . . I spent 3 hours explaining to the jury why all of these claims were factual... It basically was a 3 hour class in mechanical engineering... I concluded that it was the improper modifications that the consumer had made that caused the u joint and yoke to fail. Not the design of the parts.



The modifications that he made to the truck were both improper and unsafe. They did not meet any of the DOT guidelines and that it was those modifications and the speed at which he was traveling at that caused the driveshaft to fly off... ...

The jury ruled that it was not the fault of Chrysler or its products ... .

The husband of woman that was killed later went on to get a judgment for millions against the owner of the W250 not to mention the others that filed

suits againts the consumer.



The owner of W250 had neither the education nor the experience to be making the modifications that he did in the way that he did...

But he felt that making his truck "look cool" was more important than everyone else's safety. He thought that he knew more about automotive engineering than the men that designed and built the trucks... . Never mind the fact that he had not even bothered to finish high school. After all school is just for stupid people ... ... ... ...



Please excuse my attitude... ... The above case left a lasting impression on me... . I can still see the pictures of the woman with the drive shaft stuck in her and her 2 kids crushed to death in my mind even after all these years... .



Every time I see a pickup truck hauling an excessively large or heavy trailer,

Every time I see a jacked up truck with tall tires speeding down the road those pictures flash in my mind... ... Along with a few from other cases I was involved with over the years... .



We are all free to do as we see fit in our own lives. But the decisions we make we will also be held accountable for... . Ignorance is no excuse!!!!

It is each and every individuals responsibility to properly educate themselves before they make their decisions or actions... It is not and should not be the responsibility of the government or the manufacturers or anyone else to educate us or protect us from ourselves... ... .



I am not a fan of the "big brother" form of government at all !!!! But with the amount of stupid people out there doing the things that they do. I certainly can understand why the "big brother" theory cam about... .



In Germany today you are not allowed to do ANY modifications to a vehicle outside of factory spec's... . If you are caught with a modified vehicle on the roads the fines are stiff!!!!! If they cause an accident you WILL be going to jail. .

It will one day be like that here if people keep on doing some of the stupid things that they do with motor vehicles... .



As a rule of thumb it is best to leave things alone that you do not understand. Your vehicle will last longer, be more reliable and everyone around it stand a better chance of living a longer life.....



The GVW sticker on the door jamb was not a joke!!! We were not kidding!!!

Chrysler built pickup trucks... . They are referred to as "light trucks" for a reason... They are NOT road tractors, they are NOT front end loaders nor are they aircraft.....



I will get off my soap box now... . To those of you out there that are responsible... This was not directed at any of you... . Those of you with the lift kits ,gumbo tires, welded pitman arms, mega HP engines, 40 ft trailers ect. This was directed at YOU! If I offended you I am glad!! You are screwing things up for everyone else... Get with the program !



The true difference I have found between ignorance and stupidity is simple... ... ...

Ignorance can be cured with education!! Stupidity has proven to most always be terminal... It must be genetic...

WOW!



AMEN brother, preach on, you DO speak the truth!

 

[Dan_69GTX]

Well, here's my question. The FCMSA says:



Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle --



(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater



The inspector I talked to said this even applies to not for hire POV's, not just the big rigs.







... ... ... ..... but I need a CDL to do it ??



I am under the 26,000 lb limit, but do I really need a CDL because both vehicles individually are above 10,000 lbs ???



how many of you have one ??

Yes, I live in VA and I HAVE a CDL. However, I don't need one for RV purposes. Farmers, emergency personell, and RVers don't need a CDL.



Here is a link to VA's DMV site:

Commercial driver's license requirements don't apply to:



Operators of emergency vehicles, such as firefighters

Active duty military personnel operating military vehicles

Operators of farm vehicles when:

Used by farmers

Used to move farm goods, supplies or machinery to or from their farm

Not used as a common or contract motor carrier, and

Used within 150 miles of the farm

Operators of vehicles, such as recreational vehicles and rental moving vans, used only for personal use



http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/drivers/whoarecdl.asp



Dan

 

[TRCM]

I know the commercial aspect of it, but what concerns me is the folowing excerpt from page 27 of the Virginia size, weight's, and equipment manual for trucks, & trailers. it was obtained form the same website as your link.









Weight Inspection Requirement

Operators of trucks which are defined in part as having a registered

gross weight in excess of 7,500 lbs. are required by law to drive their

vehicles onto scales for weight inspection as directed by either a police

officer or by a regulatory highway sign. A police officer may require the

operator of a truck to drive a distance up to 10 road miles to a motor carrier

service center (weigh station) for weight inspection. Refusal to drive onto

the scales for inspection is a misdemeanor.











This says nothing about commercial or not.





Mark

 

[GFrance]

You are not an operator of a truck. You are a traveler in your own non commercial vehicle loaded or pulling personal property or rv not for hire, not subject to the FMCR (Federal Motor Carriers Regulations).

 

[TRCM]

Federal no, but state, that's what I am trying to find out.



I just talked to a friend in canada, and up there, any duall wheel truck requires it now.

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

Now that I have read everything you folks wrote I will put in my 2 cents. Read the specs. on the tires. They will say how many Lbs. air pressure and how much weight that tire will carry at that pressure. Go beyond that and beyond the recomended gross weight and a case could be made against you. I never have occasion to tow more than 6,000 with my 98 2500 12V and I run "E" rated tires on the truck and trailer radials on the trailer. You may want to call it over kill, I call it as much safety margin as I can get. I drove a semi 16 years. Either poor quality tires or less than recomended air pressure will get you into trouble every time. Your tires are where the rubber meets the road. The driver of any vehicle must assume responsibility for the safety of the other people on the road.

 

[Dan_69GTX]

... . Weight Inspection Requirement

Operators of trucks which are defined in part as having a registered

gross weight in excess of 7,500 lbs. are required by law to drive their

vehicles onto scales for weight inspection .....



This says nothing about commercial or not.



Mark

You are correct - that does apply to EVERY truck in Virginia. The weight depends on what your truck is licensed to carry. ANY truck licensed for more than 7500 lbs is subject to this. Check your registration - what is the number under GW (gross weight). That is what your registration fee is based on - and what your truck is legally allowed to weight and operate on the street (truck + passenger + cargo + trailer weight). Normally if you don't specify anything the DMV personel will enter 6500 - far less than a Turbo Diesel weighs empty - and you are running illegal then. 7500 is the max you can go and still have "passenger" plates - over that you HAVE to get truck plates - now the DMV/DOT know they COULD make you go on a scale. Almost all of the time they will ignore you - unless you have a buisness name on the trailer/truck or you have done something to get their attention. Also if you have registered over 7500lbs your vehicle is NOT allowed to get the vehicle personal property tax discount. I've done a lot of research into this - and have several friends who are cops with various agencies.



Now all that being said - I do not stop at scales in VA. In general - in most states - most agencies regard - RV's as (as a friend one put it) "sacred cows" and won't bother anyone unless - again - they have done something to get their attention. And if some cop/DOT officer has a chip on their shoulder - and you have "truck" plates - just comply with them and get weighed - anything else will get you one or more nice pieces of paper requiring your signature. IF you are within DOT/DMV guidelines - all it will do is just make your trip a bit longer - nothing else.



Hope this answers your questions - if not, please ask!

Dan

 

[TRCM]

Dan,



So, if I register the truck (yeah, I am getting truck plates, and yep. . the taxes are crazy) at it's gvwr of 11,000, then with the trailer (gvwr 14,000), I am under the DOT required weight.



but if I register the truck at more, say 14,000, to gain some leeway on the tongue weight added, I will be above the 26,000 mark.



I'm thinking I will register the truck at 12 k, and with the trailer at 26 k, I am right at the limit. I will also have the max leeway for tongue weight/load on the truck without venturing into DOT territory, unless i can get the trailer gvwr reduced some how, and since it is on the plate in plain view, that might be hard to do.



The max I expect to tow with any regularity, is 10 k, and that includes the trailer weight.



I think with a 26,000 gcwr, and only a 10 k load, I should be fine.



Agree ??

 

[GAmes]

I think your fears are bumping up against paranoia. You are not commercial, therefore you do not need a CDL. You are driving a pick-up, also known as a light duty truck. Thousands of people in VA have them and do not stop at the scales, nor are they likely to be required to. The lines would stretch for miles if they did. I am registered in a different state, but my registration says "passenger vehicle" which is essentially what you have. If you want to pay outrageous fees for plates, then be my guest... ... ... but quit losing sleep over this.

 

[TRCM]

Well, sorry GAmes, but I have no choice.



If the vehicle weighs more than 4000 lbs, and has a gvwr over 7500 lbs (ctd's do--all of them), then you can ONLY get truck plates for it if you ever plan on using it to tow anything. Which means the personal property taxes are about 3 x that of a car.



If I register it as a passenger vehicle like you suggest, then I would be illegal on bumper height. Passenger vehicles are not trucks according to the state of VA. In fact, any vehicle sold with a rear seat AND NO way to stack a load higher than the cab of the vehicle, is considered and registered as a station wagon if you don't insist otherwise. This includes, suburbans, hummers, tahoes, broncos, excursions, etc. That is why my Ramcharger is registered as a Ramcharger, not as a station wagon.



VA is starting to stop more & more people for this. It means a ton more money for them.



I'm not loosing sleep over it, I am trying to figure out what the law actually says, so that if I break it, I know exactly what I am doing wrong, and I can justify the results vs the penalties.



Like when you're speeding down the highway, you know you are speeding, and you know basically what it's gonna cost you if get caught, and you weigh that against the benefit of getting there faster.



I seem to detect a bit of sarcasm in your reply (paranoia, if you want to, be my guest). Please, if you don't live in VA anymore, or have never had to follow the laws they have now, then don't make sarcastic comments over my concerns with them. You don't have to deal with this crap... . I do.



If you want, I can do it your way, and when I get a ticket, you can pay it and while you're here, you can visit your in-laws... . ok ?



I'm just trying to find out if anyone else has had to deal with them, and how they addressed it.

 

[GAmes]

Sorry, I never meant to suggest you break the law. My remark about my registration was intended to illustrate that your pick-up is not (at least in most states) considered a truck, that's all. You may have to get "truck" tags but you still not by definition a truck.

I'm just saying you are trying to make something simple into something it isn't. I'm sure that VA is trying to enforce their registration laws. I sincerely doubt that you have to stop at the scales with or without a cargo trailer, but there is nothing to prohibit you from doing so. I do drive mine commercially and I don't have a CDL, but I do maintain a log book and everything else an O/O does. When I am pulling my own RV the DOT numbers come off and I bypass every weigh station, including the ones in VA, and have never worried about it. I don't think you need to either, but as I said in the past, pull into one and find out. Register your pick-up by the GVWR posted on the door or the GCWR that's in the tiny print in your owners manual, which ever is required, and go about your business.