starting issue

[DMorris]

My 03 developed a small issue on cold starts. If I just crank it till it fires sometimes it dies instantly. What I tend to do now is just crank a little longer then I normally would. Problem is it makes a bit of a squeal or squeak when it goes to start ? No idea what gives, I do have a edge juice but it did this before I had the edge on it. I wondered if it could have something to do with the batteries being old ? That may sound far fetched to some but I have had fuel injected motorcycles crank great but not start due to battery out put for cold cranking not being up to snuff. I do still have the original batteries with just under 100,000 on them and obviously they are 7+ years old. Any ideas ?

 

[firefighter_2000]

I did...

I had the same problem. I knew the batteries were weakening, but i pushed them as long as possible... Put two brand new red top optimas on it and it starts MUCH better now. I think since the batteries weren't putting out full voltage the lift pump wasn't turning as fast and builting as much pressure as it should. Replace the batteries and see what happens.

Craig

 

[DMorris]

Sounds like a plan, cant complain about what I got out of the old batteries !

Just wondering-why red tops and not back to OEM ? I know optima has some killer units on the market, but they are no cheap date from what I remember.

Thank you for advice ! Love to hear if others had same problem with results.

 

[firefighter_2000]

No spill

One reason for the red tops is they are completely sealed. No boiling over, no water to check, no corrosion on the terminals, etc. pretty much maintenence free. Do some reading on the "AGM" Batteries.



VRLA battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The yellow tops are for deep cycle which means they can be drawn down farther with no damage to the battery. Mostly for vehicles with lots of accessories.



The Red tops are for more cranking amps such as required by our trucks.



If you decide to go with an optima, give optima a call and they will send you a free set of the battery adapters to go on the bottom of the batteries so they can be clamped into the battery box with the factory hardware.



Good luck with whatever you choose!

Craig

 

[JaredH]

Does he have any guages on the truck (Fuel Press or Rail Pressure)? What voltage do the batteries show?

 

[DMorris]

Just the "attitude" part of the edge juice for gauge's , so I do not know rail pressure/fuel pressure. I do have a Fass system and know the fass pump is running and the filter/separator is good. As far a battery test goes, I can check battery voltage but really wont mean anything. I believe a bad battery can still show acceptable voltage but not have the output for cranking and injecting.

 

[JaredH]

Just checkin if you had anymore info... let us know if the batteries test bad (for cold cranking). Maybe some new batteries just in time for winter!

 

[p-Bar]

The ECM needs the voltage to do it's things try a good battery charger on it next time and see what happens

 

[DMorris]

sorry it took so long to get back into this, been busy. So I decided due to the fact the batteries were 7 going on 8 years old to throw in a pair of optima red tops.

good investment but not the cure. Seems to do the same thing ? So good charged batteries and still same issue. Do I need to invest in a fuel pressure gauge to check rail pressure ? I did pull the trailer yesterday and have to say the truck runs like a champ, 17,000# + trailer edge on #2 towing and pulls very well, does not seem like I have any other problems other then the starting problem. $350 in batteries I hope to resolve this without too much investment.

Please advise me on where to go from here. Thank you in advance !

 

[JaredH]

Could check the rail pressure relief valve... Would make sense for the long cracking times on cold starts.

 

[TCDiesel]

Check the PRV as suggested,But I am leaning toward Injectors. Also remove the Edge and see if it makes a difference Starting.

 

[SWithrow]

I had the same problem December of last year. You'll find a ton of good advice and knowledge within TDR. I did learn that 03's had hard start problems and NOT all have same symptoms. Mine ended up being bad injectors and a worn CP3. I credit T&C Diesel (Todd) for all his efforts in helping me to getting my problem resolved. :-laf

 

[JaredH]

TCDiesel,



You helped me troubleshoot a truck once before. I thought the first step was to verify that the PRV was working correctly (since it is a fairly easy check). Ultimately if there is a "no start" condition the fuel being pumped has to be leaking somewhere... PRV, Injectors, cov... right?



Are you leaning toward injectors since it dies after starting... meaning the PRV is most likely good since it will start (not leaking at the PRV during cranking)?



Thanks!

 

[JaredH]

Troubleshooting long cranking times reminds me of another question. Sometimes cracking an injection line will allow the truck to start as normal for a while. Why is that? Does it allow the fuel to drain out of the line, thus the CP3 thinks the injectors are "receiving" fuel as they should? Or... ?

 

[SWithrow]

I was faced with the same problem, I could loosen then tighten the fuel line (on the rail or the CP3) and the truck would start and run with no problems. I installed a new set of batteries, PRV, CP3 and I bought the cap for the rail but was of no use since cracking open ANY line would allow the truck to start afterwards. Ultimatley it was bad injectors and once I replaced the injectors it is running strong.

 

[DMorris]

Could check the rail pressure relief valve... Would make sense for the long cracking times on cold starts.

How do I do this ?

 

[DMorris]

I suggested checking for stored codes because of the "dying after start" issue.





The '03 year had faulty lift pumps, change your fuel filter and check that it's functioning. I don't think that the lift pump tosses a code, but if it doesn't pump good flow at key on, it's not working properly.

Fass pump, maybe 5,000 miles on it.

 

[JaredH]

Personally I would use option 1, but others on the TDR have used Option 2 in the past.



Option 1) Check the pressure relief valve by loosening the banjo bolt at the rail enough to insert a business card (or at least something to leave a small gap between the banjo and seal washer). Start the truck, no fuel should flow out of the valve unless the pressure exceeds 26,000 lbs, if the PRV sprays any fuel on start-up the valve is defective and should be replaced.



Option 2) Replace the pressure relief valve with a bolt. Bolt is a metric 14x1. 5 (not sure of length, should be same as banjo bolt), then put a copper washer on it to seal.



Also see the info in the link below:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...fuel-pressure-limiting-valve.html#post2108530

 

[DMorris]

fass ????

more questions, before I look into pressure relief I have a couple quick questions.

If I remember correctly, should'nt my Fass run for approx 30seconds as soon as I turn the ignition on ? I had my best half turn ignition while I sat next to pump, didnt run at all ? Next I will start it, but am gonna plug it in for a couple hours first - its in the single digits here and I hate to start it with out running the block heater for a bit.

When truck is running-the lift pump should be running continuously I would assume, is that correct ?

 

[JaredH]

Depends on how the FASS was wired. Do you who where you picked up the + power to turn the relay ON?



When I bought my AD I had to make my own connection for the relay ON power. My AirDog's power to turn the relay ON is from the factory lift pump's + source. So When I turn the key to the RUN position, the pump will run for 5 seconds or so and then turn off (exactly how the factory pump worked). If I bump the starter and the truck doesn't start then the AirDog will run for one minute and turn off (like factory).



My truck seems to start faster if the AD has not built full fuel pressure...



I believe the FASS has an internal bypass so your CP3 should be able to pull enough fuel through the bypass to start even if the FASS is not running.



Yes the FASS should be running continuously while the truck is running.