starting issue

[DMorris]

Same day different update.

Sad times, still has the same problem. Have to crank extra long to get it to start. Then it has a intermittent stumble while idling cold, once it kicks down it idles fine. I swear I could hear my lift pump kicking out while it when it stumbled ? Ever hear of that ? Then I opened the door to listen but it idled down and never stumbled again. I am down to two weeks here to get this fixed, we need to be out on the road on Feb 1st pulling out way two heavy fifth wheel around the country. Any advice on next thing to check ?

 

[TCDiesel]

The long Cranking is 99% relate to poor Injectors... If continually needing to long crank for start. . Its Injector time... If You unplug the FCA and you still need to long crank its Injectors.

 

[DMorris]

So if I unplug fca : it should start right up ? Would that also lead to a possible bad fca ? or if it starts right up does that mean I have a injector problem for sure. If I need injectors do I need nozzles and all or just injectors?

Am I going down the right road here ? It one thing to be out a couple hundred on guess work it will start to get pretty expensive if I need to go with injectors. Feeling pretty low at this point about the whole thing.

 

[DMorris]

Disconnected the FCA and it started up fine ( crazy rattle after starting as would be expected with FCA unplugged) . So FCA unplugged equals shorter crank to start. So ???

I appreciate the advice of replacing one bad injector, but in all honesty, If I need to do one I will do them all and not chance issues on the road. Plus gives me an excuse to go with a little better injector : not that I wanted to dump more money into it.

 

[TCDiesel]

Now plug the FCA back In and try tomorrow,DO NOT plug in the Block heater.

 

[DMorris]

with the truck unplugged last night ( about 10 degrees here) , slow cranking but did seem to start o. k. for as slow as it cranked. A lot of stumble at idle until the motor hit about 60 degrees and idled down.

I have to say- these new optima red tops suck ! my old original batteries were better and they were 7 years old.

 

[TCDiesel]

Optima red tops are worthless in 20* or less -0 temps they will be recycle junk in short order. AT 10* it should start and run fine, it may start and jump to 1k rmps, replace those optimas with Class 65 and + 770 CCA.

 

[Cummins Ag]

Why does the OP appear to have an issue with Fass when the problem seems (?) to be injector related and not pump related? Just asking...



-mike

 

[DMorris]

Well it does look like new injectors are in order. Todd from T&C has called and walked me through more trouble shooting. I am going to swap over to a smarty and he recommends stock injectors over +50 injectors and with his knowledge and my lack there of I think I should listen.

Also he did hit it on the head, the red tops dont work in a cold climate. My truck cant run 3 heat cycles and still crank the motor.

 

[DMorris]

I am back- same problem

Well sad to say, back over a year ago I did install all new injectors and the starting issue was fixed. I put maybe 8,000 miles on it and my starting problems are back. Always takes an extra try or two to get it to start. It will try to fire then stop. then crank again and it usually will start. It does not even start good warm, it will go on the first try warm, but it sounds like it is not going to start. I think if I am told to put new injectors in it again I am done with this truck. I cant afford to stuff this kind of money into this truck. I can not believe that a truck with 112,000 miles on it needs its 3rd set of injectors.

Now I full time RV and dont even have a decent place to work on this truck so the cost of repairs is going up faster then todays fuel prices.

 

[BDaugherty]

Have you invested in a rail pressure gauge? Also, did you install new or reman injectors last year? The first thing to do is to see if you are building rail psi during cranking. When I was having start problems, it took about 1200psi for the ecm to tell the injectors to fire. If you have indeed wiped out good injectors in a year's time, then we need to figure out why. It's not common for that to happen unless you have bad parts or contaminated fuel.

 

[cerberusiam]

Lilke was asked previous, injectors new or reman? I ssume if you got them from TC Diesel they were new but.....



What filters are you running on the FASS? Unless you switched off the normal delivered ones you could still be running too much solids thru the system and that can hurt injectors quickly.



Since the injectors have bneen changed, did you do cross over tubes the last time? When the injectors were installed were the cross over tubes loctited? A re-torque of the cross over tubes would be a good start.



When was the last time the FCA was replaced? What do you run for additives? How often? The ULSD is dry and these systems benefit greatly from a cosistent does of fuel additves and\or extra lubrication.

 

[DMorris]

Have you invested in a rail pressure gauge? Also, did you install new or reman injectors last year? The first thing to do is to see if you are building rail psi during cranking. When I was having start problems, it took about 1200psi for the ecm to tell the injectors to fire. If you have indeed wiped out good injectors in a year's time, then we need to figure out why. It's not common for that to happen unless you have bad parts or contaminated fuel.

New injectors not Reman. I run a good fuel filter/separator system, always fill up at top tier stations. How do I check the rail pressure without throwing away a pile more money ?

 

[DMorris]

Lilke was asked previous, injectors new or reman? I ssume if you got them from TC Diesel they were new but.....

What filters are you running on the FASS? Unless you switched off the normal delivered ones you could still be running too much solids thru the system and that can hurt injectors quickly.

Since the injectors have bneen changed, did you do cross over tubes the last time? When the injectors were installed were the cross over tubes loctited? A re-torque of the cross over tubes would be a good start.

When was the last time the FCA was replaced? What do you run for additives? How often? The ULSD is dry and these systems benefit greatly from a cosistent does of fuel additves and\or extra lubrication.

I did get them from Todd. I installed the adapter on my Fass so I upgraded my filter. I did not do tubes last time, and not they were not loctited (is that a word?- loctited?) and I did not loctite them when I torqued them. My FCA was replaced last year at the same time. And yes I do run cetane additive .
Thank you

 

[cerberusiam]

quickest way is going to be dealer or diesel shop that has a scanner with the capability to read the Dodge diesel modules. They should be able to tell you what the demanded vs actual is while it is cranking to see if it is taking too long to build pressure.



That said, you don't have truck info in your signature so its hard to tell what you are working with. The early manuals have a glitch in the cam\crank sensor system that will cause long crank and hard starts. That may or may not be your issue but it is possible.

 

[DMorris]

Sorry - it is a 2003

 

[cerberusiam]

Sorry - it is a 2003

Auto? Manual? Any power mods? Etc?

 

[DMorris]

manual with a smarty, I am working on my truck profile

 

[cerberusiam]

A couple things come to mind:



The cam\crank sensor mismatch that will cause hard starts.



Corrosiom on the ECU A & B connectors.



A rubbed wire in the harness, normally on the AC compressor control circuit.





Additionally, the cross over tubes being a little loose or needing replaced. Lots of little things that cna be the issue.

 

[TCDiesel]

Well sad to say, back over a year ago I did install all new injectors and the starting issue was fixed. I put maybe 8,000 miles on it and my starting problems are back. Always takes an extra try or two to get it to start. It will try to fire then stop. then crank again and it usually will start. It does not even start good warm, it will go on the first try warm, but it sounds like it is not going to start. I think if I am told to put new injectors in it again I am done with this truck. I cant afford to stuff this kind of money into this truck. I can not believe that a truck with 112,000 miles on it needs its 3rd set of injectors.

Now I full time RV and dont even have a decent place to work on this truck so the cost of repairs is going up faster then todays fuel prices.

Unless trash found its way to the Injectors it would be extremely rare to need to replace them. . Please call We will fix you right up. . I am here until 10pm.