"stealer" censorship on this site.

[Wayno]

Well I don't think that I have ever use the word Stealer on the forms before . When my speedometer went out I went to that place that sells those new Dodge cars and trucks and I went to their parts department and check on a new speedometer and the parts man told me they would sell me a rebuilt for around $350. 00 dollars . Well at that time I did not know how to post on the TDR forms so I got my old friend Okie-go to post on the forms for me to see if any one knew where I could get my speedometer fix . Well one of the members here on the TDR told him of a place in Houston that could fix it so I took it to the place and they told me they could rebuild it for around 150 to 175 dollars so I let them rebuild it . I just wonder if its the same place where the dealer was gonna take it and have it rebuilt . I wonder if one of the Dealer's reads this post if they will complain to the TDR cause I didn't get the speedometer from them . I know one thing some of the parts at the dealers are way to high . So maybe people should start calling them robbers cause that is just about what they are doing when you buy parts from them . If there is Dealer's that are not happy with people using the word "Stealer" on the forms because they say it gives them a bad name because they are not then it seems to me they have nothing to be worried about . So I guess if you think a Dealer has rob you I guess y'all will just have to put the Dealers name on the forms instead of calling them Stealer's . Y'all better hope that those Ford Dealer's don't here about y'all bad mouthing those old " Fix Or Repair Daily " with those old junkie " power jokes " in them cause they will be complaining next :--) :--) :--) :--)

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Ok, here's my two bitz... .



carson6,



Noted an example of his treatment regarding the vacuum pump. .

Let me show the other side... And I can prove this if you're inclined to doubt my word. .



My brother had a power steering pump failure on his 92 CTD, which he treats like a precious mine... .

He took it to his Dealer, and they decided it would need replacing. . but first they wanted to check tolerances on the vacuum pump.

After it was all done he had a new PS pump which he paid less than "off the street price" for.

Here is the upshot... . after putting on 8 more FREE !! they pulled the vacuum pump FREE, and replaced that at absolute cost, then put on the 9th PS pump FREE. Each time they brought his truck back to him, detailed "to the nine's".



That is a 5 Star Dealer.



I've had bad experiences with one or two others myself.

In my opinion I couldn't find any fault with any one of the members here if their "term" was based on their personal experience with a particular dealer, but I do have a little bit of embarrasment when it's tossed out as though they are ALL like that.



How many of us have really "taken off our hats" for guys like Piers, or Peter at SB, or other vendors who go the distance plus an extra 5 yards... lots right ?? Well I don't think it's fair to clump those people into a group because of some less than diligent outlets.

Maybe it's a just about a bit of balance here...



There was one other thought posted above too... if enough guys posted a reference to a first class dealer/service center pretty soon we'd have a darn good list for those fellows who want to go with the DC process and get fair treatment. Pretty soon, the dealers who DON'T get mentioned might start to rethink their operation.







bob.

 

[77 cafe racer]

One lump or Two

Lets say you live in Pennsylvania and you enjoy football. Shall we

call them the Pittsburg Petty Thieves?



Politically correct-ness is not our friend.



Washington Redskinned Potatos!



Bring back the Baltimore Bullets!



I was a loyal customer to my selling dealer until I found out they would automatically add a percentage of the total to the bill. I

forget what woke me up one visit but I asked for an explaination

and the price came down substantially. Boy was I ******. Stealer

has a nice ring to it, but now I call them a bunch of RICHARDS.



rON

 

[carson6]

credit where is due..

john scott from hunington beach dodge took care of me also conrad larenzo from bullhead city is a special person also these guy's went the extra mile to make the "dealer"experence a pleasent one... not everybody is like my canadian buddy's. I'v been lied to and cheated by the other's(stealers)

 

[RustyJC]

Here's a related thread where I expressed my concern with dealer rankings.



Good & Bad Dealers



Rusty

 

[vssman]

Hmmmm...



I used to work for the company that made the VSS units for DC (before they moved to Mexico). We sold DC the sensors at about $5. 00 each. Have you priced one lately?? About $50. 00. I now make the steering shafts and see the same thing. Of course the companies that make the parts can't sell directly to the public because DC would sue and pull the business. Take it for what it's worth but marking up prices that much fits the definition of stealing. Maybe we need to clarify who is doing it as the dealers buy the parts from DC. All of that markup is helping the bottom line of a foreign company. Just think about it...



I'll get off my soapbox.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

Look on the bright side boys. The dealers have taken notice and know having a bad rep will lose business for them. Maybe some of the wayward ones will change their ways. NOT Take heart knowing that they see the business.



We have a good dodge dealer here locally. They have been more than fair. Wouldnt say theyd go the extra mile. But they made sure it gets fixed if it qualifies.



Lets see my car is worth 13k. If i was a dealer and had the same markup on my car that they have on their DEALER ONLY parts. I could get $40,000 for it. I think im in the wrong business. Maybe its a bad example.



Locally we have a subaru dealer. Its the ONLY one. I think its the highest volume subaru dealership in the nation(subarus are very popular in alaska). Someone else was gonna open a subaru dealership and the ONE got it quashed. WHY? So they could continue to charge 20% over dealer price on all their DEALER ONLY parts. That is criminal and it is stealing. 100 dollars for 4 spark plug wires kinda deal. Whereas you can get the whole bunch for the price of one of em outta any parts store( but they were unavailable at the time).

 

[Dkevdog]

Originally posted by vssman

Hmmmm...



I used to work for the company that made the VSS units for DC (before they moved to Mexico). We sold DC the sensors at about $5. 00 each. Have you priced one lately?? About $50. 00. I now make the steering shafts and see the same thing. Of course the companies that make the parts can't sell directly to the public because DC would sue and pull the business. Take it for what it's worth but marking up prices that much fits the definition of stealing. Maybe we need to clarify who is doing it as the dealers buy the parts from DC. All of that markup is helping the bottom line of a foreign company. Just think about it...



I'll get off my soapbox.

I am in the manufacturing business as well. A particular product we make costs about $3 a unit to actually manufacture. It is sold for about $40. Why? Because that $40 offsets other costs within the company, as well as services and additional benefits provided to the customer, including warranty and customer service. Does that make ME a stealer as well?? I hardly think so.



There is markup in EVERYTHING. It is the American way. It is how business operates. And you will never change it. If you don't like the price, shop around until you do. If you don't like Dodge because of it, Don't buy one!! If you think Ford or Chevy or anyone else for that matter is any different... .



Kev

 

[Todd T]

for all the Dealers/employees out there reading this. do us a favor and we'll throw YOU a bone!



1. lower your shelf stock prices to what is comparable to a local Cummins shop. (you are more abundant and have neat things for us to look at while we are there anyway)



2. build a REAL CREW CAB TRUCK (so i can sell this Ford you forced me to buy)



the new trucks are awsome, but they're too short in the cab!



is that too much to ask?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"2. build a REAL CREW CAB TRUCK (so i can sell this Ford you forced me to buy)"





BOY - they must operate LOTS different in yer part of the world... Around HERE, we decide WHEN we wanna buy something - carefully select available options and price - comparing one source against another, then WE decide which and where we will buy... No one "forces" us to buy anything against our will - or wallet...



So, what do they use in YOUR part of the universe as force - guns? Knives? maybe foul language and frowns?

 

[TDRadmin]

Censorship

I am reading each e-mail, PM and post regarding this topic with sincere interest. For the record, I have received approximately:



- 10 e-mails opposing my request.

- 4 e-mails supporting my request.

- 1 PM opposing my request.

- 0 PM supporting my request.



You can read the relevant threads, so I won't recap those opposing/supporting here.



Background and Additional Information:



After receiving requests to have the reference "Stealer" better managed (if not eliminated) on the website, I wasn't convinced we had a problem. So, before acting, I did some homework.



I ran some reports over the past six months. The word "Stealer" had been used 644 times during that period. That works out to 107 incidents each month.



Then, I looked at some (but not all) of those posts.



I saw that the word, "Stealer" was mutating from the situation where it was being used to describe a specific situation (which we had allowed without question) to one where it was becoming many users' standard, accepted reference for all dealers.



The word that I use for this is stereotype (defined as: an oversimplified conception, opinion, or image. ). And as I get older, I grow increasingly uncomfortable with stereotypes. I find it difficult to use the words "all" or "never" with any seriousness when referring to others.



I don't want this website to become a place where (if even in fun), "All dealers are stealers. " Nor do I want it to be a place where "No dealers are stealers. " What I want to do is encourage users to share details/facts about good, as well as bad, experiences. I cannot recall a single incident where we "disciplined" any user for posting the facts associated with an experience with a dealer. And I am not trying to discourage it with this simple request. This request is simply about courtesy.



For those of you who have taken the time to send me professional, courteous e-mails/PMs, I thank you. I am reviewing each one with an open mind.



Robin

TDR Admin

 

[John Berger]

I have used the term stealer in the past and it was deserved. My local Dodge dealer exemplifies the best spirit of the word stealer. My dealer in Brunswick which has always treated me exceptionally well has always been referred to as a dealer.



Mike and others, I think the idea of coming to this website is to get help with your truck, to learn and have fun. This isn't the first time that a warning has been posted about the use of a word or evoking a theme. I think you are being a little insensitive as I didn't see you personally attacked on your business acumen. If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, try to find out why the person who was derogatory to his/her dealer, actually feels that way. You may be able to re-shape their opinion. Walking away with hurt feelings is not the way to correct what you see as an image problem to your profession.

 

[msimmons]

John:



Believe me, my feeling aren't hurt. Being in this business, my skin is much thicker than that



The point I was trying to make and the post from the TDR Administrator summed it up most eloquently is the isue of stereotypes.



Also, when you visit a dealership aren't you looking forward to being treated with courtesy and respect? I know I do when I visit a place of business with the intention of sepending my hard earned $$. I try to treat everyone with courtesy and respect even if I don't agree with them or if they don't agree with me. I expect to be treated in a like manner. Wouldn't you?



Sadly, I cannot give everybody evrything they want every time. When that time comes, I become a stealer... why is that? I have done nothing wrong.



A classic example was in my shop today. A gentleman brought an '02 Grand Cherokee in with 26K on the odo and the A/C was not working. The job was assigned to a tech who went through the diagnostic process only to find that the A/C condensor was perforated (by road debris, presumably) and the refrigerant leaked out. The service advisor called him with the news and gae him an estimate of the repair cost. The gentleman went ballistic! He said that the diagnosis was BS and he wanted the A/C condesnor replaced under warranty. The advisor told him that the problem was not related to a defect in material or workmanship and thus was not covered by the warranty. He said to forget the repair and that he would pick the vehicle up. When he came to pick it up, the advisor presented him a bill for $45. 00 for the tech's diagnostic time. The shop absorbed the cost of the lost refrgerant, BTW. He went ballistic again and said that he wouldn't pay the bill. He was then referred to me. I explained calmly what we found, showed him the damage on his car and told him that the tech had invested his time in the problem and should be paid. He said that I should send the bill to Chrysler. I explained that they would pay for it since it wasn't a fault of the car. He said that it wasn't his fault either. The bottom line is that he paid the bill and left in a huff.



Now, was I a stealer? I think any reasonable person would agree that I was not and that I did the right thing, don't you? However, I'll betcha a beer that when he talks to his buddies or if he would ever happen to be able to post on a forum such as this he would undoubtedly call me a stealer and worse, those reading HIS version of events would AGREE with him.



All I am saying is that we ALL need to treat each other with courtesy and respect at ALL times, even when we don't agree. Believe it or not, the Golden Rule applies... . even in the car business.



Mike

 

[JSmith]

If you go to a Dealer ship and treated good it is not normally posted. The bad experiences are posted. I have no problem with this.

I went to a local dealer to have a power steering leak checked.

The out come was I needed a new p/s pump. Installed, $1300. 00.

I called to other states,the pump is $500 in Wyo.

No I did not let the stealer work on my truck.

Went back about the DEATH WOBBLE, was told; you need new brakes. $1300. It seems when I went to this dealer it was $1300

for everything.

OH,the p/s still leaks,the brakes were fixed/ rotors,pads,rear drums turned,by a brake shop, $450.

Some dealerships earn the title stealer.

 

[John Berger]

Your points are well taken, Mike. I tend to agree with you and Robin on the word becoming stereo-typical. I would just hope that you and others like you don't cut bait and leave. I have an outstanding service department and they know my truck. The most frequent comment I heard from them when it was in last month for the AC and input shaft problems were, "You can tell this truck is well taken care of " or something to that effect. They know about the BOMB's on the truck and still work on it because common sense tells them that the problems weren't due to the BOMB's. I had them install the mainshaft at my cost and also my SB clutch last year. They did a good job. It's so nice to be able to walk in that dealership and have them say hello and want to know what's up instead of assuming I have my head up my orifice. I've had bad experiences with my home-town dealer. They are crooks: and it starts at the owner. The guy you just told us about is probably a guy that thinks everything should be free, just because it's under warranty. I would not have been happy under his circumstances, but I also would have known going in that I was probably going to be footing the bill for this repair due to the circumstances that caused the damage. His reaction is a display of ignorance and a complete lack of common sense. I wouldn't want to deal with people like that, but you don't have a choice. There are a whole lot of yellers and screamers out there that believe if they make enough noise they'll get what they want. I'm glad you didn't buckle under.

 

[Prairie Dog]

msimmons, I respect the way you run your business but here's a thought from the owners point of view. I have also noticed how easily this damage can occur on my truck since Dodge provided absolutely no protection for this delicate part. So who is more to blame in this instance; A) the poor engineering of the manufacturer or, B) the customer who operated his vehicle in a normal manor?

By the way Gary, Can I sit down now?

 

[MMiller]

I too have been on the receiving end of an upset customer. I work for a CAT dealership in the Midwest (Altorfer, Cat dealer for eastern Iowa and Central Illinois) and its not fun getting pulled into the office because a customer wrote an angry letter to the president of my dealership about 6 months after I repaired his tractor. There are lots of screamers, but I have found there are more good customers too.



On the other side I have had bad experiances with dealers. I seem to ALWAYS have bad feelings after I buy anything from a dealer, whether its $160 brake pads or a $25000 car. I still feel bad about the car, but the brake pads lasted alot longer than the $12 napa pads.



I too have used the name "Stealer" and it was used appropriately, BUT I do understand what is being said about the loose use of it.



I work diligently in giving my customers good service, I just wish the dealers I have bought stuff from were the same way!! I take pride in my work and it is always great when a customer calls in and tell my boss that I did a good job, and they would like me to come back the next time they need a repair. I think we as consumers should do the same. It ALWAYS boosts my confidence when a customer compliments my work to me or my boss, I believe it would to anyone else in my shoes!!



Hope this wasn't too far off topic

 

[msimmons]

Originally posted by Prairie Dog

msimmons, I respect the way you run your business but here's a thought from the owners point of view. I have also noticed how easily this damage can occur on my truck since Dodge provided absolutely no protection for this delicate part. So who is more to blame in this instance; A) the poor engineering of the manufacturer or, B) the customer who operated his vehicle in a normal manor?

By the way Gary, Can I sit down now?

Prairie Dog:



I can count on one hand and take away three fingers the number of A/C condensor perforations I have seen since that body was introduced, so it's not a common place occurence.



What happened to the acceptance of the "**** happens" philosophy? There are many times when "****" just happens. Not your fault, not MY fault, not D/C's fault... **** just happens. Who then is responsible for the car? Why the owner of course since it is HIS car. That's why we buy insurance for those times when **** just happens.



It's just a shame when adults act like children and whould rather put innocent folks through the "grind" when they should be taking responsibility for their own problems. Personal responsibility however seems to be a bygone virtue.



Mike

 

[SMorneau]

You decide?

Let's see. You go to the dealer where they advertise that you should only use MOPAR parts. They are working on your vehicle and they don't have the part they need, let's say an alternator, in stock so they call NAPA or some other local auto parts dealer. They buy it from them and get a discount beyond what you would get if you went into the same store. Now they mark it up to the Dodge price and throw away any lifetime warrantees that may have been offered with the alternator.



So they charge you the price for the MOPAR part, they pay less than you would have at the same auto parts store, they throw away the warranty, and then they get upset about being called a stealer?



Hmmm...

 

[Deezul1]

Robin

Point well taken. The bums are stealers and the ones that treat us good are "Dealers" and we tell others about them. Of course we tell others about the bums too. Stereotypes arnt good.