2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Steering issues

[wilsonsh]

Hey guys and gals! New to the forum but have a frustrating question:

I have a 2002 CTD 2500 4x4 ext cab stock lift w/ 285/75R16 BFG AT. I've had quite a hard time with the steering since I got it with 109k used and it now has about 126k.

So far, I have new offset (0. 5*) ball joints, DT Pro-Fab track bar, new steering stabilizer, all new tie-rods, tires have less than 5k, just installed new steering box... think that's it.

My problem is that I still have a bit of a wander in the steering... like there is a groove in the road. The shop where I've been getting my info from lifts these trucks all the time and they can't figure it out either. Everything is tight under the front, as far as they can tell. The wheel doesn't want to return to center when it's within about 10* of center which makes me think it's the steering box but I just put a new one in (this past Sunday 12/16). It's really apparent when accelerating.



Any ideas?

 

[Mike Ellis]

I remember a lot of the guys with 4wd's were having great luck with the "Lukes Link", I think that is the correct name. Maybe one of the "Wandering Veterans" will chime in.



I had pretty vague steering on my truck too until I bought a set of Cooper tires, they track far better than the Goodyears I always used before. Didn't do anything different except the tires, they are the same size and all and just ordinary alignment. Mine is 2wd though so a different problem than yours.



Good luck!

 

[EKlem]

Is there a lot of play in the steering wheel or does the truck pull one way? If you haven't already, I recommend spending 10 minutes or so lying under your truck and having someone else turn the wheel back and forth and just look for anything that has any slop to it. The likely cuplrits are the steering shaft, steering box, drag link ends, tie rod ends, and the track bar ends. I realize that you have addressed many of these but it is still worth checking them. What kind of a lift is it? It is possible that has something to do with it. I doubt that it is your tires but if you have access to others, it may be worth trying to swap for a test run. The other thing to check that I can think of is the alignment. There are some people who feel that the stock alignment specs are not ideal and they change the toe in.

 

[wilsonsh]

There seems to be a little play in the wheel. When I did the steering box this past weekend, the steering shaft seemed tight. I have no lift on the truck. The alignment is right on... but it drives like the toe is out a bit... aggressive like there is a groove in the road. Can I change the toe myself? Will it wear the tires too much? Could the steering box be defective? I had the shop line it up to these specs :



FYI - alt. autos. dodge. trucks | Google Groups

 

[wilsonsh]

Does the steering box need to be adjusted?

 

[EKlem]

To get a rough idea of what the toe setting is, you can sets the wheels straight and measure the distance across the backs of the tires and the fronts.

A new steering box really shouldn't need to be adjusted. You can check it by having someone turn the wheel back and forth and seeing whether there is any lag between the input shaft changing direction and the pitman arm changing direction.

 

[wilsonsh]

I'll have a look here in a bit... I also adjusted the caster one degree on each side and that seemed to help so I may go a bit more... Thanks for all the help so far!!

 

[SSell]

tires can be huge factor, rotate your rears to front- they're likely "flatter" & you'll probably notice it drives straighter with less steering input. Play with air pressure---are they "d" or "E" load range? Sounds like you been thru hardware, alignment is also huge----had a '96 clubcab 4X4 CTD that had slight pull to the right, as long as you compensated for the slight pull that truck would track like a locomotive. I got greedy & had an alignment shop work on the pull ( replaced the cam/sleeve thing), truck drove like s##t until we sold it. I mean 2 hands on wheel almost cant keep in my lane oh crap red light with cars on both sides. Currently have an '05 4door with 325/60's on 18" rims..... getting almost as bad. Find some good takeoffs from a new truck for a trial run---you might be amazed.



Good luck!

 

[J.BURCHFIELD]

You would not be the first to remove the wrong ratio steering box and put a wrong ratio steering box back in. What belongs in our Ram's is a steering box that will only turn 3 turns stop to stop. A lot of 4 & 1/4 turn boxes were mistakenly put in on the assembly line. Dodge chose to use the GM (Saginaw) steering box, an excellent box, lasts forever when not used off road. There are no markings on the outside of the box indicating which ratio it is. Makes them appear like they are all the same but nothing is further from the truth. Next time you get your hands on a box turn the input shaft and count the turns stop to stop and you will then know which box you have. Put a floor jack under your front end to take weight off of the front wheels and with the engine idling turn your steering wheel stop to stop and count the turns. Mine was 4 & 1/4 and it wandered all over the road. I replaced it with a 3 turn and wandering was cured. This may be hard to believe but when you have driven both you will know. I wonder how many Rams have been sold or traded in to get away from the wandering problem. Dealers don't know about this and alignment shops don't know, they just align to specks and their done. If it wanders they start talking about wheel bearings, ball joints and tie rod ends and other things they have found at other times but they just don't know about the different steering box ratios. GM made a mistake (maybe on purpose) and Dodge did not know the difference. Could have been done on purpose to make the competition look bad. As a general rule big business will stop at nothing if it could benefit them. If you want to ask questions e-mail me and I will do my best. -- email address removed --

 

[wilsonsh]

Thanks for the input. I checked and yes I do have a 3 turn steering box in it now. It feels like a caster or toe issue... the steering wheel doesn't want to stay in the center or the front wheels don't want to track straight. The alignment feels like it is right... just feels... I don't want to say loose because the steering reacts when I turn the wheel but I correct the steering and it goes straight for a bit then starts to wander off. The alignment shop is sure that the toe and alignment is right... just when it is in motion there is something else that feels loose in the front end. When it starts to wander and I correct it, the truck reacts quickly and I end up sawing the steering wheel back and fourth just a bit to get it straight again. Then it's straight for a bit and I start over. I read some past threads where people have gone to a frame shop to get it lined up so I may try that this week.

 

[wilsonsh]

In response to SSell: The tires only have less than 1k on them so far. They are E rated at 60psi in the front and 55 in the back.

 

[monkeyman]

I will tell you we both have the same truck, I have different tires and wheels and a dually but my steering is completely not Stock with 140,000 miles you can take your hands of the wheel at 80mph ! The stock set up is really not good for daily drivers over a long period of time

Rick

 

[wilsonsh]

So what do you suggest? I'm considering all options at this point! I've been throwing money at this problem for the better part of 6 months now so I mayaswell get it fixed! I've got a DSS on the way and like I said, I'll be calling a frame shop tomorrow to get an opinion from them... any thoughts? Anything work for you?

 

[Hammer]

You say the truck is like "following the grooves in a road" when describing the wander problem. I say the truck has been lined up with too much toe in on the front end which causes the front end to plow and will follow whatever groove it sees. It will also make the steering slow to return,wear tires out faster and make the truck uncomfortable to drive. So after reading your initial post I would say have the toe checked manually and see where its at,I am certain you will find it with alot of toe in and thats not good.



Now on to the next question...

What do you suggest?????

I have installed the DSS Brace and its does help a ton. I also did Solid Steels 3rd Gen Trac Bar kit(I know you have the DT Pro Fab) and the Solid Steel Lower Control Arms. While I can not tell you what worked the best I can tell you all of them have eliminated the wander completely out of my 2nd Gen. At 178k on the odometer it drives as straight at 55 as it does going alot faster. It follows no grooves and I have no tire wear issues. I do rotate and balance mine each service time(RF to LR/LF to RR/Rears straight up front). I also am a believer in Nitrogen in place of compressed air. While I do realize there is little difference inbetween them it has allowed for less pressure variances in weather and given a better balance. The ball joints on my truck are still stock and still in great shape with no play at all..... Andy

 

[wilsonsh]

Lower control arms were going to be my next item. I will check the toe here in a minute. So you think toe IN will cause it to follow like grooves in the road? I would think opposite... I'm also adjusting the caster a bit to see if that will help.

 

[Mudinchev]

You might also want to check out :Welcome to Wild Horse Suspension!

I have had this product on the market for over a year now and have had nothing but great response.

There is a lot of reading about it available @ Northwest Bombers Search 3rd Gen Steering

 

[Mudinchev]

After thinking about my last post this might fall under "direct solicitation" If it needs to be removed please let me know.

 

[wilsonsh]

Alright guys... after further review I THINK my problem is in the caster... as in caster shimmy/road wander since they seem to be related. Using the cams on the lower control arms, which way do I adjust the front axel to INCREASE caster? It seems to me it would be bring the axel to the REAR but I've been told the opposite on another site. Just wanted a second opinion... Thanks!

 

[Hammer]

Here is a photo taken just now from the front of my truck. The settings have not changed since I bought it and it was just checked for alignment right before winter... ..... Andy

 

[wilsonsh]

Sweet! Thanks Andy! Are both the cams in the same spot?