I think they weighed it and it was 6275lbs. so it was really light.
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CUMINNTSTRKN said:
Jim - Darrens truck did make a little over 600. They tried a different tune and obviously not right. After the dyno, they set it back.
Darrens truck is a full body 2500 4x4 reg. Cab. It has race seats and harness, cage, fuel cell and no tail gate. Other than that, factory. Matt's truck still has the factory interior and no cage (being installed).
Weights are about like dyno numbers.
Seems they range all over the place. My 2500 4x4 Quad SWB 12v with the factory steel wheels and 305's weighed 6900 lbs with me in it last weigh in. My 98 3500 24v 4x4 weighed 7740 last weigh in. I weighed a factory 94 2500 4x2 with twins and alum wheels at 5850 with me in it.
well if it does weigh 6300lbs that is pretty good. i think that's about what dennis perry's truck weighs also.
david i'm not sure what you mean about weight's? it's pretty easy to find a certified scale to throw a truck on. my truck weighs 7200lbs with me in it. i remember diesel dynamics and bd both got there truck's to weigh in the low 6xxxlbs. i wish i could get my truck light to compete with these guys but the dana 80 is heavy, as are the air lockers front and rear. plus a front reciever and a gooseneck hitch which must stay on my truck.
so what does darrin usually dyno at david? i thought i heard opie had the record on your dyno so it still must be in the low 700's. does he run nitrous?
jim
david i'm not sure what you mean about weight's? it's pretty easy to find a certified scale to throw a truck on. my truck weighs 7200lbs with me in it. i remember diesel dynamics and bd both got there truck's to weigh in the low 6xxxlbs. i wish i could get my truck light to compete with these guys but the dana 80 is heavy, as are the air lockers front and rear. plus a front reciever and a gooseneck hitch which must stay on my truck.
so what does darrin usually dyno at david? i thought i heard opie had the record on your dyno so it still must be in the low 700's. does he run nitrous?
jim
Stefan Kondolay said:
Since when is 6275lbs light??? You know our dyno numbers are not really that high, but Garmon's Racing sure does kick everybody's ass at the races. It makes you wonder about all those dyno numbers out west.
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CumminFast said:
I have not raced a Garmon's truck, but the 11. 07 @ 124. 2 mph at a track that is at 6000' is a far cry from getting my ass kicked
Now maybe you are reffering to all the trucks back East that run at the same track as the Garmon's trucks? and since you bring up West coast dyno numbers, in your opinion what kind of power would it take to move 7000lbs down the track at that speed, at that elevation, and with the massive wind resistance of a lifted 4X4 truck? 
:-laf Maybe I should go to a race on the East coast so I can get my ass kicked. Just stirring the pot. 
CumminFast said:
well i don't think you have to wonder sense opie dyno'd on the same dyno as the garmons truck's and made more hp with a 24valve, i'm think he has davids record on the dyno but i'm not sure.
jim
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The first time we went to the track after extensive work on Jeff's truck, just for test and tune, Darren and Jeff went through the scale and Jeff was at 3860. Darren was 5860. Darren's truck is pretty much gutted but is still street legal. I really don't know what Darren did to gain that weight. To be drag racing, he's going the wrong way.
As to the dyno, when we were in Muncie, Matt's truck dyno'd at 696. Darren was a little back, still Darren won the thing. As most of you know, Darren won again at the Schied event.
Maddog... ... ... . It would be nice to see you at any event. I hear how fast your Cummins fired Ford is but have never seen it run. If you want to keep your 4X4 "up in the air", fine. If you can win "up there" stay with it. What ever works for you. This thing is about racing and winning. I've heard about the engine you sold but it never shows either. Still a good race is a good thing. East, South and West just has to get together is one venue.
Later.
. . Preston. .
As to the dyno, when we were in Muncie, Matt's truck dyno'd at 696. Darren was a little back, still Darren won the thing. As most of you know, Darren won again at the Schied event.
Maddog... ... ... . It would be nice to see you at any event. I hear how fast your Cummins fired Ford is but have never seen it run. If you want to keep your 4X4 "up in the air", fine. If you can win "up there" stay with it. What ever works for you. This thing is about racing and winning. I've heard about the engine you sold but it never shows either. Still a good race is a good thing. East, South and West just has to get together is one venue.
Later.
. . Preston. .
preston
what did darren win at the muncie and schied event? wow darren's truck is light at 5860!!
jim
what did darren win at the muncie and schied event? wow darren's truck is light at 5860!!
jim
My comment about weight and HP was that they seem to be all over the place. I'm not directing this torward anyone specifically, but I hear all the time how a truck just like mine weighs almost 8000 lbs, and there is no GN hitch, heavy bumpers, etc. I just think more often than not poeple guess what they weigh. I also ran identical times with 450hp as another truck with 588hp. Same truck configuration, same ET and same speed. How does that happen unless that 588hp had a huge correction factor or if for some reason, the air where he dyno'd out west was much better than we have down here. I can also give you a few more examples just like that. I don't know why this happens but I do know it does happen.
Darren's truck is not gutted. It has the seats removed for racing buckets and no carpet but still has dash, door panels, etc.
Opie did have my dyno record. Brandon Meyers now has it at 742 with his Duramax. Both of those trucks were on NOS. There has never been a Garmon truck with NOS, water, water/meth, anything. All diesel. The fact that I have a 710 uncorrected number on #2 and most recently Matt at 695 @ 1. 02 correction from Garmon powered street trucks impresses me more than the NOS numbers.
The fact is simple. So far, a Garmon powered truck wins everytime it competes! Are they the fastest? So far at the same track on the same day yes. Aside from Opie's NOS pass, a Garmon powered truck was top hp in Muncie and it was diesel only. A Garmon powered truck was high HP at scheids and there were 180 or so dyno runs. A Garmon powered truck won Pro Street at the TS DHRA event in Kentucky, won Pro Street at Muncie, won Pro Street at Schied, and if someone doesn't step up might win Pro Street in Atlanta. The TS Dodge has made a 10. 96 pass in Michigan, but so far falls short on the same day at the same track against Darren.
Richards truck is awesome. I can't wait to finally meet Maddog and see this beast run. But Richard is spraying NOS but is also heavy. No question who is making more power. What will happen if Darren sprays? What do you think will happen when Darren replaces his stock intercooler with a more efficient and higher CFM unit? And I don't buy into the elevation stuff. Why? Because everytime a diesel comes from up there to a lower elevation track, the gains are almost nothing. I remember before Muncie everyone said the Cummins rail was going to pick up anywhere between . 5 and 1 full second. I said it would possibly pick up 2 or 3 tenth. It picked up . 060. (9. 11 - 9. 05) Turbo's and NOS make up for most of the atmosphere conditions from what I've seen. That is why I don't buy into the correction factors out there. The biggest improvement I see in making power on these trucks comes when you have cool air with low humidity. Something we rarely see down here.
For years Jeff Garmon has led the pack on the drag strip. Jeff was running 12's in his drag truck (then with metal body) nearly 5 years ago. He was running 11's 4 years ago, and has been in the 10's for the last two years and this year is not over. This year he had two customers want to go fast and they both are amoung the fastest street trucks in the county. Are they light? They are legal for their classes and most importantly can make full pass after full pass without breaking. That is what wins races. Darren and Matt are not the only 4x4 reg cabs racing out there and Matt's truck is factory stock so why aren't there a bunch of trucks like his running 11. 0's - 11. 1's? I believe because it is not cheap or easy. Gets easier with spray. But they will come and I will cheer for them as I do now for all of the trucks that are leading the pack. And those trucks include many from out west.
Sorry for the long post, but let me end this with two thoughts.
Why make huge power with a heavy truck? Aren't you going to fight failure after failure trying to race a 7000+ lb truck?
If you take Jeff's pass at scheid and add to it the top half numbers from his 10. 06 run, he would have run a 9. 89 at probably at or above 140 mph. How does that compare with NOS spraying rails and NOS spraying Pro tube chassis trucks?
Darren's truck is not gutted. It has the seats removed for racing buckets and no carpet but still has dash, door panels, etc.
Opie did have my dyno record. Brandon Meyers now has it at 742 with his Duramax. Both of those trucks were on NOS. There has never been a Garmon truck with NOS, water, water/meth, anything. All diesel. The fact that I have a 710 uncorrected number on #2 and most recently Matt at 695 @ 1. 02 correction from Garmon powered street trucks impresses me more than the NOS numbers.
The fact is simple. So far, a Garmon powered truck wins everytime it competes! Are they the fastest? So far at the same track on the same day yes. Aside from Opie's NOS pass, a Garmon powered truck was top hp in Muncie and it was diesel only. A Garmon powered truck was high HP at scheids and there were 180 or so dyno runs. A Garmon powered truck won Pro Street at the TS DHRA event in Kentucky, won Pro Street at Muncie, won Pro Street at Schied, and if someone doesn't step up might win Pro Street in Atlanta. The TS Dodge has made a 10. 96 pass in Michigan, but so far falls short on the same day at the same track against Darren.
Richards truck is awesome. I can't wait to finally meet Maddog and see this beast run. But Richard is spraying NOS but is also heavy. No question who is making more power. What will happen if Darren sprays? What do you think will happen when Darren replaces his stock intercooler with a more efficient and higher CFM unit? And I don't buy into the elevation stuff. Why? Because everytime a diesel comes from up there to a lower elevation track, the gains are almost nothing. I remember before Muncie everyone said the Cummins rail was going to pick up anywhere between . 5 and 1 full second. I said it would possibly pick up 2 or 3 tenth. It picked up . 060. (9. 11 - 9. 05) Turbo's and NOS make up for most of the atmosphere conditions from what I've seen. That is why I don't buy into the correction factors out there. The biggest improvement I see in making power on these trucks comes when you have cool air with low humidity. Something we rarely see down here.
For years Jeff Garmon has led the pack on the drag strip. Jeff was running 12's in his drag truck (then with metal body) nearly 5 years ago. He was running 11's 4 years ago, and has been in the 10's for the last two years and this year is not over. This year he had two customers want to go fast and they both are amoung the fastest street trucks in the county. Are they light? They are legal for their classes and most importantly can make full pass after full pass without breaking. That is what wins races. Darren and Matt are not the only 4x4 reg cabs racing out there and Matt's truck is factory stock so why aren't there a bunch of trucks like his running 11. 0's - 11. 1's? I believe because it is not cheap or easy. Gets easier with spray. But they will come and I will cheer for them as I do now for all of the trucks that are leading the pack. And those trucks include many from out west.
Sorry for the long post, but let me end this with two thoughts.
Why make huge power with a heavy truck? Aren't you going to fight failure after failure trying to race a 7000+ lb truck?
If you take Jeff's pass at scheid and add to it the top half numbers from his 10. 06 run, he would have run a 9. 89 at probably at or above 140 mph. How does that compare with NOS spraying rails and NOS spraying Pro tube chassis trucks?
David,
I think you are partially right about the cost of building a true drag truck. From what I've seen most people want to have thier daily driver compete. I for one like that idea as well. I take both of my race trucks hunting, on road trip, or whatever because I dont want to spend 30+K for a truck to have it sit for everything but the track. That's why mine are quad cabs or 4 doors also. I could probably take my 24v motor and put it in a 2 or 4wd std cab, lightened as much as the rules will allow, and run low low 11's or even 10's but why? It's more fun, for me, to trailer another truck to the track, race, and then drive or ride home (depending on the condition of the other truck). Sure I have thought about a strickly race truck but for right now it's more fun to push the hp/et envelope with the 04. 5. It's somewhat uncharted territory that's begging to be explored. I also think in the years to come you will see the CR trucks breathing down the necks of the might 12v on #2. It might be as soon as next year.
I do agree that while corrected numbers look impressive they are a poorer choice to judge progress or compare two trucks across the country. I do believe some correction is warranted in the higher elevations of the west but for the most part I try not to look at it when checking progress. Dynojets are the most consistent dyno out there they just cant duplicate what the strip can, especially with twins. My 02 does 59psi on the dyno and 75 on the track and my 04. 5 does 48 on the dyno but 62 on the track. It would be nice to see Dynojet make a dyno with 7000lb drums to better duplicate what these trucks can do on the track.
It's good too see someone else that believes in #2 only also but you cant really knock the NOS guys either. We all know the fuel supply limitations of the 24v compared to the 12v so you have to make it up somewhere to try and stay up there or ahead. Despite the 12v's fuel supply dominance they are a dying breed in the general market. Up to this point no other fuel system has been able to compete with the p-pump therefore people have to try all they can to compete. I personally feel the p-pump is a step backwards as it will find it's limitations soon also. That will make the 12v guys look elsewhere or become more inventive also.
I guess the bottom line is everyone has thier own goals.
Nathan
I think you are partially right about the cost of building a true drag truck. From what I've seen most people want to have thier daily driver compete. I for one like that idea as well. I take both of my race trucks hunting, on road trip, or whatever because I dont want to spend 30+K for a truck to have it sit for everything but the track. That's why mine are quad cabs or 4 doors also. I could probably take my 24v motor and put it in a 2 or 4wd std cab, lightened as much as the rules will allow, and run low low 11's or even 10's but why? It's more fun, for me, to trailer another truck to the track, race, and then drive or ride home (depending on the condition of the other truck). Sure I have thought about a strickly race truck but for right now it's more fun to push the hp/et envelope with the 04. 5. It's somewhat uncharted territory that's begging to be explored. I also think in the years to come you will see the CR trucks breathing down the necks of the might 12v on #2. It might be as soon as next year.
I do agree that while corrected numbers look impressive they are a poorer choice to judge progress or compare two trucks across the country. I do believe some correction is warranted in the higher elevations of the west but for the most part I try not to look at it when checking progress. Dynojets are the most consistent dyno out there they just cant duplicate what the strip can, especially with twins. My 02 does 59psi on the dyno and 75 on the track and my 04. 5 does 48 on the dyno but 62 on the track. It would be nice to see Dynojet make a dyno with 7000lb drums to better duplicate what these trucks can do on the track.
It's good too see someone else that believes in #2 only also but you cant really knock the NOS guys either. We all know the fuel supply limitations of the 24v compared to the 12v so you have to make it up somewhere to try and stay up there or ahead. Despite the 12v's fuel supply dominance they are a dying breed in the general market. Up to this point no other fuel system has been able to compete with the p-pump therefore people have to try all they can to compete. I personally feel the p-pump is a step backwards as it will find it's limitations soon also. That will make the 12v guys look elsewhere or become more inventive also.
I guess the bottom line is everyone has thier own goals.
Nathan
DavidTD said:
david
didn't the rail go 8. 6x in muncie? i plan on building a truck this winter to compete with the lighter trucks, but like nathan it's way more impressive to me to see somebody drive the truck accross the country and compete. it makes it much tougher on the transmission vendor's becuase it is a whole lot more stress on the drivetrain parts in a 7000lb truck vs a 4000lb one. i'm hoping for a 11second pass at the northwest nationals, plus i will be sled pulling. next year i plan on changing gears and only racing a light weight drag truck. it's fun to know that my daily driver will run mid 12's with no changes.
i will not argue jeff has his trucks running well.
I would never knock the NOS guys. As a matter of fact, I'd personally rather use NOS than fog the track.
Darren and Matt's trucks are street legal and could be daily drivers. Darren has his 12. 40 second twin turbo 98 4x4 Club for that. Matt drives his 04. 5 with trailer for work. But bottom line is, once you bust into the 11's, you will have a cage. Once you bust the 10's, you'll need a harness and some other stuff to be legal. Between those items needed to go that fast alone will take away some of the streetability so to speak. But these trucks are driven very often on the street. They are just trailered out of town when raced for obvious reasons.
The rail went 9. 05 on the same tune it ran 9. 11 in Colorado. That was the point I was making. It did go 8. 75, but honestly not until they excersised a little Garmon tuning advice. Everyone wanted to see that thing make an 8 and I was proud to see it. Those guys are great and worked real hard for it.
There are some great running trucks out there, and Nathan I know you are one of them. I would never knock what you or Jim, or Richard, or anyone else does. Everyone has their reasons as to what they race and why. But at the same time, the trucks I mention accomplish a lot and it seems I always hear stuff like, "well they are light" or "if they weighed what I do" and stuff like that. With the latest street trucks Jeff has built or help build, they are regular trucks. Not stripped down race trucks that are gutted inside and out.
Darren and Matt's trucks are street legal and could be daily drivers. Darren has his 12. 40 second twin turbo 98 4x4 Club for that. Matt drives his 04. 5 with trailer for work. But bottom line is, once you bust into the 11's, you will have a cage. Once you bust the 10's, you'll need a harness and some other stuff to be legal. Between those items needed to go that fast alone will take away some of the streetability so to speak. But these trucks are driven very often on the street. They are just trailered out of town when raced for obvious reasons.
The rail went 9. 05 on the same tune it ran 9. 11 in Colorado. That was the point I was making. It did go 8. 75, but honestly not until they excersised a little Garmon tuning advice. Everyone wanted to see that thing make an 8 and I was proud to see it. Those guys are great and worked real hard for it.
There are some great running trucks out there, and Nathan I know you are one of them. I would never knock what you or Jim, or Richard, or anyone else does. Everyone has their reasons as to what they race and why. But at the same time, the trucks I mention accomplish a lot and it seems I always hear stuff like, "well they are light" or "if they weighed what I do" and stuff like that. With the latest street trucks Jeff has built or help build, they are regular trucks. Not stripped down race trucks that are gutted inside and out.
David... . Good post. There are just a few points we disagree on. I guess word definition. Also, I know sooner or later, folks will get tired of Jeff Garmon's signature on the winning trucks, but Jeff is a top notch diesel mechanic. He knows diesels and how to make them go fast. Somebody will likely best one of the trucks soon. Will it be MD2? Could be. I do know one thing. I don't believe there is anybody in racing at the present time that can on #2. MD2's reasoning about weight is a lot like Tomac. Folks, this is racing. Racing is winning. That means staying legal and going the fastest. Can you do it at 7000 lbs. Best of luck to yu. 
Fletcher, you don't count. To far away.
Jim... You asked what did Darren win at Muncie and Dan's event. Did you mean $ or trophy?
. . Preston. .
Fletcher, you don't count. To far away. Jim... You asked what did Darren win at Muncie and Dan's event. Did you mean $ or trophy?
. . Preston. .
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DavidTD, Sorry to disappoint you, but all my runs at the track have been without NOS. I had for the first time NOS hooked up and ran it on my two dyno runs in Denver, I sprayed one . 044 jet which is maybe worth 30-40hp. My 11. 28 @ 118mph in Houston last December was on #2 only, my 11. 07 @ 124. 2mph in Denver was on #2 only with a blown top turbo, and a bent #6 exh. push rod which cost me getting into the 10's, and my 11. 50 @ 118mph was on #2 only running in the VALET mode with a blown head gasket (only made 85lbs of boost. In Denver I made 119lbs). BTW I still race with my big 7000lbs truck cause I can still run as fast or faster than anyone else.
My 11. 28 @ 118mph in Houston last December was on #2 only, my 11. 07 @ 124. 2mph in Denver was on #2 only with a blown top turbo, and a bent #6 exh. push rod which cost me getting into the 10's, and my 11. 50 @ 118mph was on #2 only running in the VALET mode with a blown head gasket (only made 85lbs of boost. In Denver I made 119lbs). BTW I still race with my big 7000lbs truck cause I can still run as fast or faster than anyone else. 
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