My oldest son just had his transmission rebuilt ( 02 Dodge diesel) putting in a Sun Coast converter assembly and their new valve body. They also installed an edge juice performance product. The problem is in the morning when the engine is cold or any time the engine is cold, when you first start the engine and put the truck in reverse, the truck stalls. Even after letting it sit idling for one to two minutes. it will stall. You end up starting the truck two or three times before it will quit stalling and can move in reverse. Any ideas as to what the problem is??
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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Sun Coast torque converter problem
- Thread starter BKeibler
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Good Luck !!!!! I also have this problem and have 3 threads going about this , I have a Suncoast tiple disk and There Valve Body also I think there valve body is too much and it leaks fuild into the TC over long sets and when you put it in gear the TC is full and stalls the engine
Ive been allover about this and right this second Im attempting the Fix on the TDR home page ,,, I have the Twisted wire removged from 50% of the split loom its took me about 2 hrs so far and is not looking promising I came here to see if others are removiung the wires all the way to the ECM or what ?
Do a search for Engine Dies By my user name and you will see that I have done many many things to try to fix this problem and it hasnt dont nothing.
Im completly fed up with every thing and I will be Detuning my truck soon back to stock.
Suncoast wants 300 to restall the converter from 1900 to 2100-2200 and they said it may not fix the problem !
Even guyts with Just Shift kited VB have this issue but its not as bad ...
Aslo I think it may be the 5. 0 KDL Do you have the 5. 0 Kick Down Lever also ?????
Theres been many cumminicated fixes for this . .
One was cold Weather reflash of the ECM its been said to work ,,, well it didnt
another is VB pressures to high I had them turned down ,,, Didnt fix it,. ,,
Another was Vp44 is dieing well mine died and new one is in and still didnt fix it .
Ive talked with Jeff Garmon , Dave Gorend and a lot of big time Diesel Performance guys and with there advice Im no closer to fixing the problem than before
It sucks !
Good Luck
And feal free to give me a call aout this issue to anyone on TDR
1-740-819-6661
As this issue has me almost to the point ,,,, no screw that it has me To the point of detune
DM
Ive been allover about this and right this second Im attempting the Fix on the TDR home page ,,, I have the Twisted wire removged from 50% of the split loom its took me about 2 hrs so far and is not looking promising I came here to see if others are removiung the wires all the way to the ECM or what ?
Do a search for Engine Dies By my user name and you will see that I have done many many things to try to fix this problem and it hasnt dont nothing.
Im completly fed up with every thing and I will be Detuning my truck soon back to stock.
Suncoast wants 300 to restall the converter from 1900 to 2100-2200 and they said it may not fix the problem !
Even guyts with Just Shift kited VB have this issue but its not as bad ...
Aslo I think it may be the 5. 0 KDL Do you have the 5. 0 Kick Down Lever also ?????
Theres been many cumminicated fixes for this . .
One was cold Weather reflash of the ECM its been said to work ,,, well it didnt
another is VB pressures to high I had them turned down ,,, Didnt fix it,. ,,
Another was Vp44 is dieing well mine died and new one is in and still didnt fix it .
Ive talked with Jeff Garmon , Dave Gorend and a lot of big time Diesel Performance guys and with there advice Im no closer to fixing the problem than before
It sucks !
Good Luck
And feal free to give me a call aout this issue to anyone on TDR
1-740-819-6661
As this issue has me almost to the point ,,,, no screw that it has me To the point of detune
DM
YOUR MEDICATIN WILL BE THERE MONDY MORNING, PLEASE REFFRAIN FROM USING SUCH HARSH LANGUAGE AS "DETUNE" THATS NOT NICE ! :-laf :-laf
If the VB is leaking back, is Suncoast going to send you a new one under warranty?
Holysmokes said:
Good luck with that!Warranty... . does Suncoast even offer one anymore?
As far as the problem goes... .
Fluid leaking INTO the converter is the opposite of what has been a past issue. Alot of guys have to drop the truck into Neutral for a few seconds to 'recharge' the TC and coolers. The TC should be full at all times.
I wish I could sit with a scan tool on these truck and watch values when the problem occurs. I'd be willing to bet it's an engine issue, not a transmission issue.
The tighter converter just makes the problem more apparent. The stock converter won't put a load on the engine at idle. (if at all)
Josh
LOL @ Smokes
And thanks Josh for the Input how ever Suncoasts only plan $300 was to Restall my converter up 300 RPM upon a phone call back they said listen... . Thats not going to fix it ... Im like WTF also I have been recieving phone calls about this issue and so far all the people reporting this issue has Suncoasts Own Valve Body not just a Shift Kit ,
1 Guy did send his back and got it retalled it didnt do a thing to fix it .
I have a Super Special Marco ECM inroute that may cure this problem if so then you are correct its the engine not the transmission as Dave Gorend said ,,, Becaue it dont do it every time .
Mine got worst with the 60 HP sticks andis now unbarable with the 160 Hp Sticks
If the ECM dont fix it 100% I have my stocker In Route to Put in ,,, as with smaller sticks the issue is masked and Ill just do a smarty and Im done for good ,,, been up the slope and back down a few to many times
DM
And thanks Josh for the Input how ever Suncoasts only plan $300 was to Restall my converter up 300 RPM upon a phone call back they said listen... . Thats not going to fix it ... Im like WTF also I have been recieving phone calls about this issue and so far all the people reporting this issue has Suncoasts Own Valve Body not just a Shift Kit ,
1 Guy did send his back and got it retalled it didnt do a thing to fix it .
I have a Super Special Marco ECM inroute that may cure this problem if so then you are correct its the engine not the transmission as Dave Gorend said ,,, Becaue it dont do it every time .
Mine got worst with the 60 HP sticks andis now unbarable with the 160 Hp Sticks
If the ECM dont fix it 100% I have my stocker In Route to Put in ,,, as with smaller sticks the issue is masked and Ill just do a smarty and Im done for good ,,, been up the slope and back down a few to many times
DM
It just seems like something in the ECM isn't sensitive enough. As soon as it senses a drop in RPM that thing should be fueling itself.
So with bigger injectors it's worse. It isnt' fueling near fast enough to keep the engine running.
You've got a new VP, so that isn't the issue. So thinking outloud... as I don't know the 24v engines very well... . There is Crank or Cam sensors, Coolant temp, Intake air temp, MAP, and ? Pretty simple. It sure seems like there would be more involved. So the ECM looks at engine speed pretty much constantly.
It watches the Coolant temp to know when to alter the timing for "optimum" performance.
Intake air temp for the grid heaters, as well as Timing under hot/cold intake air temps.
Map sensor tells the ECM what kind of load the engine is under. High boost/low boost.
Here's a question... . Do you guys have a "boost fooler" that you are using with your injectors? Obviously the ECM is going to throw a light and defuel if you run a heavy foot... Could it be something to do with that? The engine is seeing more of a load than really exists, or on the flip side, no load when one does exist.
Anyone else have any ideas? Are there more sensors involved here? I honestly don't follow the 24v's much... But after wrenching for 10 years you know how they work.
I had a Suncoast Valve body and Converter. When my Goerends drops into gear, it's WAY more aggressive than the Suncoast was. TurboTweaker has the same converter I do, and really hasn't had this issue. (I think I mentioned this before, sorry if I'm repeating myself)
Josh
So with bigger injectors it's worse. It isnt' fueling near fast enough to keep the engine running.
You've got a new VP, so that isn't the issue. So thinking outloud... as I don't know the 24v engines very well... . There is Crank or Cam sensors, Coolant temp, Intake air temp, MAP, and ? Pretty simple. It sure seems like there would be more involved. So the ECM looks at engine speed pretty much constantly.
It watches the Coolant temp to know when to alter the timing for "optimum" performance.
Intake air temp for the grid heaters, as well as Timing under hot/cold intake air temps.
Map sensor tells the ECM what kind of load the engine is under. High boost/low boost.
Here's a question... . Do you guys have a "boost fooler" that you are using with your injectors? Obviously the ECM is going to throw a light and defuel if you run a heavy foot... Could it be something to do with that? The engine is seeing more of a load than really exists, or on the flip side, no load when one does exist.
Anyone else have any ideas? Are there more sensors involved here? I honestly don't follow the 24v's much... But after wrenching for 10 years you know how they work.
I had a Suncoast Valve body and Converter. When my Goerends drops into gear, it's WAY more aggressive than the Suncoast was. TurboTweaker has the same converter I do, and really hasn't had this issue. (I think I mentioned this before, sorry if I'm repeating myself)
Josh
It just seems like something in the ECM isn't sensitive enough. As soon as it senses a drop in RPM that thing should be fueling itself.
I Agree
So with bigger injectors it's worse. It isnt' fueling near fast enough to keep the engine running.
Right ... . Its not accomendating to the RPM drop when going into gear
You've got a new VP, so that isn't the issue.
Nope , Nither is Fuel Pressure I ran it at 10 and now 20 and no change , Even changed the Lp just incase the pusher was pushing threw it and nothing
So thinking outloud... as I don't know the 24v engines very well... . There is Crank or Cam sensors, Coolant temp, Intake air temp, MAP, and ?
I Cleand the IAT it was a Solution for some people didnt change mine
Pretty simple. It sure seems like there would be more involved. So the ECM looks at engine speed pretty much constantly.
It watches the Coolant temp to know when to alter the timing for "optimum" performance.
The issue arrizes before the colent temp has a change IMO and even when its up it still does it
Intake air temp for the grid heaters, as well as Timing under hot/cold intake air temps.
Had a bout with the Intakes whith remote start install thew techie installed the diade back wards ,,, since fixed it tho but thought There was a possibillity of Intake Heater Damage ... . They seem to cycle well ect Tho
Map sensor tells the ECM what kind of load the engine is under. High boost/low boost.
Here's a question... . Do you guys have a "boost fooler" that you are using with your injectors?
I ran it with and without a boost fooler Via Edge Comp and Haiselys ADD No change with all 3 ... (1 at a time ) Stock , ADD, Comp
Obviously the ECM is going to throw a light and defuel if you run a heavy foot... Could it be something to do with that? The engine is seeing more of a load than really exists, or on the flip side, no load when one does exist.
Due to tests and ect... I dont think this issue is tied with the MAP
Anyone else have any ideas? Are there more sensors involved here? I honestly don't follow the 24v's much... But after wrenching for 10 years you know how they work.
I had a Suncoast Valve body and Converter. When my Goerends drops into gear, it's WAY more aggressive than the Suncoast was. TurboTweaker has the same converter I do, and really hasn't had this issue. (I think I mentioned this before, sorry if I'm repeating myself)
Turbotweaker Andy had this exact issue , His stalled 100% of the time had the TC restalled and it fixed it From talks with Jim Spicyjam , It worked with the gorends and dave doing the changes but with Suncoast all the guys who sent theres back to get the stall increased to lessen the load at launch minimal success rates
Thanks For the help It means alot
DM
I Agree
So with bigger injectors it's worse. It isnt' fueling near fast enough to keep the engine running.
Right ... . Its not accomendating to the RPM drop when going into gear
You've got a new VP, so that isn't the issue.
Nope , Nither is Fuel Pressure I ran it at 10 and now 20 and no change , Even changed the Lp just incase the pusher was pushing threw it and nothing
So thinking outloud... as I don't know the 24v engines very well... . There is Crank or Cam sensors, Coolant temp, Intake air temp, MAP, and ?
I Cleand the IAT it was a Solution for some people didnt change mine
Pretty simple. It sure seems like there would be more involved. So the ECM looks at engine speed pretty much constantly.
It watches the Coolant temp to know when to alter the timing for "optimum" performance.
The issue arrizes before the colent temp has a change IMO and even when its up it still does it
Intake air temp for the grid heaters, as well as Timing under hot/cold intake air temps.
Had a bout with the Intakes whith remote start install thew techie installed the diade back wards ,,, since fixed it tho but thought There was a possibillity of Intake Heater Damage ... . They seem to cycle well ect Tho
Map sensor tells the ECM what kind of load the engine is under. High boost/low boost.
Here's a question... . Do you guys have a "boost fooler" that you are using with your injectors?
I ran it with and without a boost fooler Via Edge Comp and Haiselys ADD No change with all 3 ... (1 at a time ) Stock , ADD, Comp
Obviously the ECM is going to throw a light and defuel if you run a heavy foot... Could it be something to do with that? The engine is seeing more of a load than really exists, or on the flip side, no load when one does exist.
Due to tests and ect... I dont think this issue is tied with the MAP
Anyone else have any ideas? Are there more sensors involved here? I honestly don't follow the 24v's much... But after wrenching for 10 years you know how they work.
I had a Suncoast Valve body and Converter. When my Goerends drops into gear, it's WAY more aggressive than the Suncoast was. TurboTweaker has the same converter I do, and really hasn't had this issue. (I think I mentioned this before, sorry if I'm repeating myself)
Turbotweaker Andy had this exact issue , His stalled 100% of the time had the TC restalled and it fixed it From talks with Jim Spicyjam , It worked with the gorends and dave doing the changes but with Suncoast all the guys who sent theres back to get the stall increased to lessen the load at launch minimal success rates
Thanks For the help It means alot
DM
On the time line between truck being fine and dieing going into gear 2 things happened . .
TC,VB KDL upgrade and my ECM fried , Both fixed at the same time ,,,, and ever since this problems been there tho not as bad with stock sticks
DM
TC,VB KDL upgrade and my ECM fried , Both fixed at the same time ,,,, and ever since this problems been there tho not as bad with stock sticks
DM
Interesting. I didn't know about TurboTweaker having issues. I'll have to give him a hard time about it.
Kind of an odd proposition. Since Suncoast has had Mixed repair rates on their restall procedure... What if you sent your converter up to Dave to modify. If he's done it a few times, I'm sure he knows what to look at and modify inside there. They have all the tooling onsite to cut open/reweld the converter.
I don't know what he'd charge, but I have a feeling it's less than the $300 Suncoast wants.
No Problem with the help! That's why we are all here! I wrench for a living, so at times I see things in another light. I enjoy helping people and not having to touch a wrench! :-laf
Josh
Kind of an odd proposition. Since Suncoast has had Mixed repair rates on their restall procedure... What if you sent your converter up to Dave to modify. If he's done it a few times, I'm sure he knows what to look at and modify inside there. They have all the tooling onsite to cut open/reweld the converter.
I don't know what he'd charge, but I have a feeling it's less than the $300 Suncoast wants.
No Problem with the help! That's why we are all here! I wrench for a living, so at times I see things in another light. I enjoy helping people and not having to touch a wrench! :-laf
Josh
Stalling?
Sorry to hear of your frustration. The closest thing I have experienced with my setup(see signature) is a near stall when vehicle is started after shutoff and not allowed to idle 3-5 seconds. It'll almost stall but never has. Good luck! I have stock sticks w/18,000 miles if anyone's interested.
DieselMinded said:
Sorry to hear of your frustration. The closest thing I have experienced with my setup(see signature) is a near stall when vehicle is started after shutoff and not allowed to idle 3-5 seconds. It'll almost stall but never has. Good luck! I have stock sticks w/18,000 miles if anyone's interested.
I had the stalling when it goes into gear problem for quite a while. I did lots of things to try to fix it and what finally worked was the cold weather flash. Then I upgraded to DD3's and the problem came back somethimes. I had the transmission redone and when with a 89% instead of a 91% and the problem is gone again. I am a bit worried about my new Mach4's that are coming, hoping the stall does not come back.
I also have a buddy that had the stall with just RV285's and a TC/VB. He changed the ECM, Injection pump, TC/VB and even when all the way back to stock and never got rid of the problem. He eventually found that it was the crappy winter fuel we got in Alaska and he now keeps a couple hundred gallons of good ole #2 laying around to mix with his winter fuel. That seems to have solved his problem.
Good luck and do a search for stalling, you will see my posts from the past along with lots of other goood info.
I also have a buddy that had the stall with just RV285's and a TC/VB. He changed the ECM, Injection pump, TC/VB and even when all the way back to stock and never got rid of the problem. He eventually found that it was the crappy winter fuel we got in Alaska and he now keeps a couple hundred gallons of good ole #2 laying around to mix with his winter fuel. That seems to have solved his problem.
Good luck and do a search for stalling, you will see my posts from the past along with lots of other goood info.
dieseldude
TDR MEMBER
I have suncoast 91% converter, vb, and upgraded clutches and i don't have that problem as a matter of fact I didn't have that problem before I did the clutches and the only thing I have to complain about is my line pressure needs to be re-adjusted but that has nothing to do with the manufacturer!!
I would look into what may be wrong with your motor.
I would look into what may be wrong with your motor.
tjlaffite said:
Do you have the resistor installed into the wiring harness? I know some places were putting them into the valve body, but I don't know if SC does. When I got their stuff they sent me a resistor.
I'd back the TV cable down one or 2 clicks and go from there.
Josh
dieseldude
TDR MEMBER
i don't have any resistor on mine everything went back into the transmission the way that DC had designed it to just with suncoast parts.
I had to use the resister my truck wouldnt down shift to 1st
DieselMinded said:
Food for thought,
With the ECM frying, maybe something else was damaged or the reflash or replacement ECM doesn't have the correct parameters installed?
Going back to the cold start flash that was mentioned earlier...
Looking at this TSB for cold starting, http://www.dodgeram.info/tsb/2001/18-019-01.htm, it's saying that 3 cylinders will be shut off (loss of torque), (by the "fly by wire" VP44 I'll assume) to expedite engine warm up and this process will be deactivated when,
1. The Automatic Transmission is placed in gear (forward or reverse) or,
2. The Service Brake pedal is depressed or,
3. Throttle position is greater than 0% or,
4. Vehicle Speed is greater than 0 mph or,
5. Coolant Temperature is greater than 79°C (175°F).
And this is just a stab but, do you think that your engine would continue to idle if running on 3 cylinders and placed in gear?
Also, could the TCC system (ECM signal/TCC switch/spool valve) be causing the problem? If your convertor is locking up at start up, would it kill the engine when placed into drive?
Last edited by a moderator:
Josh,
The resistor (a 1. 5 ohm dropping the voltage to a seen 4. 5 volts) is in the orange wire in the middle ecm harness on the fire wall behind the air filter.
A friend of mine has the resistor in the red & black govoner wire ine the valve body, both seem to be working to prevent the 2nd gear starts.
I plan on moving the tv cable back towards the fire wall at 2 klick intervals until I get the desired shift effect.
TJ
The resistor (a 1. 5 ohm dropping the voltage to a seen 4. 5 volts) is in the orange wire in the middle ecm harness on the fire wall behind the air filter.
A friend of mine has the resistor in the red & black govoner wire ine the valve body, both seem to be working to prevent the 2nd gear starts.
I plan on moving the tv cable back towards the fire wall at 2 klick intervals until I get the desired shift effect.
TJ
Demons Ram < no stone left unturned ,,, I took my replacement ECM to the dealer and Paid for the reflash that they said they couldnt do becuase it was already at the latest software ncluding the cold weather start , And I have another ECM in Route from Wagner to see if theres a calabration Issue with my CPL ,
All the engine guys say its the transmission and all the transmission guys say its the engine ,
Whn putting in Drive after warm up and ect ,,, its goes into gear violently with a *Bam* Wounldnt that be 100% in the Valve Body ?
All the engine guys say its the transmission and all the transmission guys say its the engine ,
Whn putting in Drive after warm up and ect ,,, its goes into gear violently with a *Bam* Wounldnt that be 100% in the Valve Body ?
DieselMinded said:
If you are at a normal idle, and it's doing that, then I'd definetly say it's transmission related.
??Goes in gear like you had the accelerator depressed and did a netural drop??
The TCC (Torque Convertor Clutch) lockup is controlled at the valve body. Any chance your convertor is staying locked up or the spoolvalve in the valve body is sticking letting fluid lock the torque convertor up prematurely?
More info here:
www.tcraonline.com/TCRA-seminar_2005/2005_seminar_Sonnax.pdf (Link has died! Sorry)
Dodge Diesel - Diesel Truck Resource Forums - What is code P2769?
https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/printthread.php?t=115695&pp=40
TSB 21-10-00
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