Super hot pre 93

[Archive]

Big Don:
I made the decision to replace the pump with a warranteed rebuilt unit. I called Ted, and we agreed to have his injection man prep a unit to our turned up specs. I left my old unit to return as the core. I think it turned out quite well. (that's an understatement) I'm now looking at a Centerforce Dual Friction clutch ass'y. when it comes time to replace the original (152k miles) This Cummins does torque to me now.
Long may you run.

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92cum'ns 5spd 4wd all possible mods. to void warranty.

 

[Archive]

Sounds great. What kind of power do you think you're putting out now? Have you had any trouble out of the getrag? I have 132,000 on mine trouble free. Let me know egt's and boost when you run hard or tow.
thanks


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1989 D 250 Ice blue met. 5 spd 3. 54 Banks stage III powerpack straight exhaust, still looking for more power
1999 3500 4x4 Chassis cab Emerald green ISB 5 spd 4. 10 K&N Filter straight exhaust 9 ft flatbed definitely in need of MORE POWER!!

 

[Archive]

Old School,

Talked to Ted J. today. He did not seem to havce much in store for me. We talked about what he did for you. The only recommendations he made for me was to have a local shop set pump timing and maybe install a 12cm2 housing. He also made a statement that confused me a little. He said that the average pump life for rotary pumps was 130-150,000 miles. I do not recall seeing any posts about rotary pump failures. Ted J. If I have misconstrued any of this please correct me. After talking with Ted, it seems that I have no where to go, I own the hottest fire breathing pre 93 NOT!! Does anybody have any hp/torque figures that on could get out of a pre 93?? Ted said they'll go 300h. p. HOW???

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1989 D 250 Ice blue met. 5 spd 3. 54 Banks stage III powerpack straight exhaust, still looking for more power
1999 3500 4x4 Chassis cab Emerald green ISB 5 spd 4. 10 K&N Filter straight exhaust 9 ft flatbed definitely in need of MORE POWER!!

 

[Archive]

Big Don: you're on the path now..... And you have quite a few places to go. I can agree with Ted on what he said concerning the pump life. My truck is a well maintained unit. Especially the internals, filters, lube, additives like anti-gel, fuel lube improvers, etc. Yet-in spite of the care, and the filters, and drains, the delivery rate plunger pin (the horizontal trigger) was stuck, or frozen in a less than optimal position. This did not occur suddenly, but over time. Ted and I just found it by finding we could not adjust for optimal delivery rate, not full load, and not smoke adjust. One other area that could deteriorate over time is the rotary plunger assembly. Another is the timing pin. Wear would certainly occur at 150k. How much, would it blow up? Probably not. My old pump had a problem that was apparent in one area, the other areas possibly were worn or less than optimal, but it's out and gone now, and the new pump again is like night and day in comparison.
Ted was right in regards to the timing. The correct method is to set the pump to engine timing with the exact TDC set with dial indicators, and the pump setup with it's own dial, and timed. The replacement pump was set up at the injection shop to 30/20% over, flow tested, tweaked, and locked. Then installed, and timed (optimal) to the engine. You may find that a pump to engine time by a knowledgeable shop is the thing to do.
The 12cm housing would really spool-up the turbo to loose your pull-up smoke. I like my 16cm, w/o the wastegate.
I had the opportunity tonite on the way home to power-on in 3rd, 4th, and 5th... Boost bounced off 30 on the 30lb. gage. EGT was at a glance-900. Smooth. No smoke at the top. Any smoke occurs during the mid rate pull-up, and this is adjustable by the star wheel, and my right foot. I was always skeptical of the 1 lb. boost = 10 h. p. , but it feels that way now.
Good luck.

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92cum'ns 5spd 4wd all possible mods. to void warranty.

 

[Archive]

Thanks,

I was not meaning to say anyhting negative about Ted J. or his info/products. Thank you for elaborating. I have a couple of questions How do you get 30lbs. boost?? Especially when empty. Maybe a question for Ted J. I understand about the care part (filters etc. ) I do pamper both my trucks and give them all the treats good trucks deserve, but I do run them. Just got home (most northeastern point of TN) from a trip down 40 then north on 65 to KY to get a tractor. @640 mile round trip, need to check odometer to be sure. We ran hard 75-80 mph down and back. Don't worry traffic was clear. Even loaded on a hill mine only makes @20-21 lbs. I know that's when wastegate opens, but empty mine is up to speed before it makes 17-18. I know if mine would ring the needle at 30 lbs. it would be quicker. How do I get there from here?? How much is it to get pump timed to engine? rebuilt/turned up Pump??

 

[Archive]

Big Don: Didn't read any negatives in your comments. Sounds like you have some intelligent concerns, and questions. As far as the boost, It's the first time in it's life the truck has come up this high, and QUICK. Probably the way Cummins would want it, but then the drivetrain would have to be double the beef for every yahoo that would shock load the system in normal bad driving techniques.
I can't go on enough about the vastly improved torque band, as it will pull up smoothly in all gears, without forcing lot of rpm. Just the way the 12 valve torquers are supposed to.
Right now my assumption is that Ted and I have been on the mark as far as injector size, and pump bench adjustment variables, in conjunction with the now free flow exhaust system and 16cm2 housing.
The fact that I don't have a wastegate obviously lets the boost climb, and the fuel deliverables let the boost climb, the 16cm has less restriction than the 12cm, along with the free exhaust (with a straight thru muffler, nice Cummins sound, not ratty) deliver a total package that I am quite pleased with (an understatement).
To properly set the pump to engine timing was $180. The remanufactured, bench adjusted/set/flow tested/warranteed pump was $1000. The '92 VE44 pump is a few hundred more than the '89 model. We already went over why the pump was replaced, I'm glad I did.
One thing. . when it comes time to sell the truck for the next Cummins. . someone will have an optimized unit.

Something to think about... this truck runs 36" tall x 9. 25 wide tires, and 3. 54 gears.
Regards.

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92cum'ns 5spd 4wd all possible mods. to void warranty.

 

[Archive]

Old School,

Sounds great. Why is the later rotary more expensive than the 89 model? Is it better? Sounds like you're doing good pullin those tall tires with 3. 54 gears. Did/do you pull out in 1st or 2nd? I think I'll try adjusting my pump per the directions, see if I can change power/smoke sometime next week.

I took mine on a 650 mile journey to get a tractor yesterday and it never once got hot. It get's up to @ 1100. I was wrong when I posted that it would get hot. I was told by Banks 1150, so I used to get nervous about 1100, but Ted J. says I can run it all day long at 1200, so I don't worry any more. I weighed in @15-16,000 lbs. total and ran 75+ all up 40, 1 hill is @ 5miles long and the rigs hauling cars get down to @ 40mph, I hit the hill doin @65 due to slower traffic, never had it on the floor and at the top of 5 mile hill I was doin @78 mph. I LOVE my truck. SO today I treated it to new tires Michelen LTX 235/85's and a bath. Sometimes I want more, like when I'm running empty and the camaro or mustang is beside me, but these trucks really shine under a load on a long hill. I sensed that for the first time in months my truck was actually happy.

thanks
Don

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1989 D 250 Ice blue met. 5 spd 3. 54 Banks stage III powerpack straight exhaust, still looking for more power
1999 3500 4x4 Chassis cab Emerald green ISB 5 spd 4. 10 K&N Filter straight exhaust 9 ft flatbed definitely in need of MORE POWER!!

 

[Archive]

Good to hear your trucks happy. Next week the full moon is going to be JUMBO. My truck really seems to dig it.
If I'm on a steep grade at a stop, I'll start off in 1st. , otherwise it's 2nd all the time.
Regards

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92cum'ns 5spd 4wd all possible mods. to void warranty.

 

[Archive]

MAN DO YOU GUYS SMOKE!!!
The topic of the performance Cummins with my friends is dropping the muffler and getting a K&N. Now this is serious power. Unfortunately where I am at there doesn't seem to be the same places to go to get this kind of info or upgrades/parts. The boarder has a hay-day with any shipments of parts from "The South". I have meddled with with pump but not the injectors.
Can I interject about the pump wear thing?????
When I get after it, the black smoke seems to blast out in short bursts during spool-up in say... 4th or 5th gear. The pattern isn't always repeatable either. Is this a sign of the fuel delivery internals binding in the pump??? I need some experienced help here as the diesel shops are all too eager to sell me a new pump.

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Jason Hoffman
(Lil' Mack)-89 D250 2WD 5Spd 3. 55 Reg Cab. K&N, 3. 5" Exst straight,E&M Custom seats. Bosch H4 80/100 Plasma-white HdLites. Bosch 100W Driving. Bosch 55W Fogs
210,000 miles

 

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Lil'Dog: Describe the smoke condition again, if you could. Your pump has 210k on it? I assume your injectors are original also. Possibly time to replace... what density and how much smoke? At spool up? At the top of every gear? What cm2 is your turbo housing?
Regards

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92cum'ns 5spd 4wd all possible mods. to void warranty.

 

[Archive]

Old School,

I saw a post where you were talking about 275 h. p. injectors??? Is there such an animal for the old trucks? I may be wrong, but I did not think the new 275 ISB injectors would fit the old trucks. I'm confused.
I have also spoke with the folks at TST, though not directly with mark chappel. They were kind of like Ted J. These folks pretty much believe that my truck has "arrived" at the peak of it's h. p. torque level. Is there no way to get more??

So far the only suggestions I have are "get injectors", but no one can tell me if they are better than what came in it. I also hear "time the pump" or "replace it". I would like to find someone who could explain to me what would give this thing more power. On a side note Does your truck use oil? Mine has used it (Rotella 15w40) from day one. Always has it leaking out the blowby tube, coats trans and undercarriage. Uses 1-1 1/2 quarts in 6,000 miles

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1989 D 250 Ice blue met. 5 spd 3. 54 Banks stage III powerpack straight exhaust, still looking for more power
1999 3500 4x4 Chassis cab Emerald green ISB 5 spd 4. 10 K&N Filter straight exhaust 9 ft flatbed definitely in need of MORE POWER!!

 

[Archive]

Hey Big Don: You're not confused. I was remiss in just spitting out "275" injectors. Yep - the ISB has the "official" 275 RV injectors. The items I refer to are new/rebuilt modified tip and plunger models that have been flowed, and matched as a set.
I think in an earlier post I refered to them as big a** injectors. That's what they will be. Ted J. stocks them, and can tell you what they felt like on my truck.
The pump as replaced (as we discussed on an earlier post) with a remanufactured unit that was adjusted internally up 30/20%,(full fuel, rate, and timing) on the bench, and flowed. So, for the cost of a "stock", rebuilt pump, I installed one that is "optimized".
I think you're on the right path again with your search for power.
Now - my turn for the Question... . describe the installed Banks stage III on your truck. How about the smoke? Did you tweak it away?
About the oil... I figure I drive 20k/yr. , and change oil and filters about every 4k. I'll add about 3/4 of a qt. between changes. I use Valvoline/Cummins Prem. Blue 15W40. Go figure... ...
Keep them posts cummin'
Happy Holidays.

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92cum'ns 5spd 4wd all possible mods. to void warranty.



[This message has been edited by old school (edited 12-22-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

The Banks kit is great. First I removed the turbo from the truck. Then I swapped my 18cm2?? housing to a 14cm2 waste gated housing. Easy enough. then I had to cut(ouch!!) two holes in the radiator bulk head to get the intercooler boost tubes thru. The kit came with templates. I think I used a 2 1/2 or 3" hole saw. I removed the grille first. The kit comes with a straight bar grille, because the stock grille is so thick (has to much "depth" that the intercooler want fit with it in place. I did not like their grille so they credited it's price ($200. 00?) and I decided I wanted my truck to keep it's stock appearance, so... I took my grille and spent several hours with a grinder , file, saws etc. cutting the back out of it. Then I repainted it. It looks really good. it opened up the grille openings more and I took a piec of expanded metal, painted it black and when I reattached the grille the screws went thru it perfectly. Looks reaally cool. I bought their exhaust but not the muffler, It has a straight pipe.

Now for the adjustments: I turned the fuel screw in 1 1/2 turns. This raised the idle so I had to back the idle down to stock (750??). I have not touched any other adjustments on the pump. It smokes a little undr no boost if you kick it to the floor, but once the boost comes on it is clean unless you leave it on the floor. It does not smoke bad, but I think I am going to tinker with the pump adjustments and see if I can gain more power. I assume by the way it runs that the diaphragm is turned almost to the optimal level?? As I have said before, A frien of mine has a 99 Powerchoke, 3. 73 gears 6 speed and I can outrun him. So he no longer makes fun of my "ol' Dodge".

Sorry so long
Don

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1989 D 250 Ice blue met. 5 spd 3. 54 Banks stage III powerpack straight exhaust, still looking for more power
1999 3500 4x4 Chassis cab Emerald green ISB 5 spd 4. 10 K&N Filter straight exhaust 9 ft flatbed definitely in need of MORE POWER!!

 

[Archive]

I have been following you guys in your quest for more power in the early rotary pump Cummins engines. May I suggest a publication from Cummins that explains all your questions and then some. The book: Injection Pumps And Injectors Midrange Engines Part #3666037-04. It was printed 7-97. Josh Berman (before he left Cummins) told me they were in the process of revising at that time, about August '99. It is worth every penny. It will explain how and why the things you are doing is working or not working. The injectors for instance can be set to pop off at a higher pressure. One of the differances between the 180hp and 300hp engines. The tips them selves are exactly the same. Other differances are the timing on the engine and the fuel delivery rate of the pump it self. I have a January'89 truck that has been dynoed @ 195hp. That is roughly 235hp at the fly wheel. The fuel has been turned up drasticly sence that test and other things have been done. I am estimating 250hp @ this time and I have not touched the injectors yet. I believe the longivety of the pump it self will become questionable if the pressure is turned up much more. Increasing injector pressure increases internal pump pressures also. My experience with the 12cm2 turbo housing is that it will spool quickly, but runs out of air at the top end. Just some thoughts, hope they help.

Stab, 01-89 Club Cab, Short Box, Severely Enhanced fuel system, 16cm2 housing, Horton Fan, Firestone Airbags, 5spd, 3. 54 gears, Lifted 2. 5", Alco SLT's with BFG 255/85/16 Muds- 33" dia. , Chrysler V-twin air compressor, Dyna-Mat sound deading, and on and on... ... ... ... .

 

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Old School,
Sorry about the delay but here is my best description.
Now, I'm empty at this time of the year, in 1st thru to 3rd don't notice it. But in 4th at 1700 up to 2300 there is the normal hue of light black then say near 2200 there will be a burst, about enough to fill a 5 gal bucket. And back to light black until you get to 2450-2550, then all hell breaks loose with clouds of black until you level out. Its the same in 5th, small bursts, not necessarily at the same RPM but maybe 2 bursts then black till governor at 2550. At the full speed it clears up as your sailing at 90 MPH.
Also, sometimes there isn't always the same amount of black near top speed... It's hard to explain but I drive the same route every day and the last light out of the city is my test run to home.
Another problem is that I haven't got any gauges (working on it) so I don't know if the boost is hopping at the fuel bursts.
I trouble-shoot Natural Gas engines and diesel is not my specialty by any means. The smoke should be telling the story about the fueling. I fear that the injectors and pump are due for repair.

Thanks for your time and help.

Oh ya... I forgot... the exhaust housing is stock, power screw in 3/4 of a turn, aneroid in 2/3 of a turn. K&N, stock pipe till where muffler was then 3. 5" over the axle and out.


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Jason Hoffman
(Lil' Mack)-89 D250 2WD 5Spd 3. 55 Reg Cab. K&N, 3. 5" Exst straight,E&M Custom seats. Bosch H4 80/100 Plasma-white HdLites. Bosch 100W Driving. Bosch 55W Fogs
210,000 miles



[This message has been edited by Lil' Dog (edited 12-23-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

Lil' Dog: Got a few minutes for some thought and to move this topic up to the top. . good topic.
Get a pyro and boost gage. You've "turned" up the pump, and you need to know what's happening with the incoming and exhaust of the motor.
The miles on the pump and injectors may lead to the other part of the story. I'm an advocate of cost effective RESULTS, and I think a good precise timing of the pump would be in order. Might cost $180. U. S. , and a competent shop would do it on-truck, a suggested setting would be to advance it to 1. 35 mm (dial indicator at spill port).
This won't correct a worn/erratic pump, but it would optimize your condition, and eliminate component timing issues.

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92cum'ns 5spd 4wd all possible mods. to void warranty.
SILENCER RING REMOVED FROM BLOW BY TUBE

 

[Archive]

Lil' Dog,

From what I here your truck should already be at 1. 4mm. You need to have it set to 1. 5-1. 6mm. This advances the timing and makes it run smoother, more power and better fuel mileage. The 91-93 intercooled trucks(like old schools) were set from the factory were 1. 35mm. Old school yours has probably stepped up to 1. 5mm.

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1989 D 250 Ice blue met. 5 spd 3. 54 Banks stage III powerpack straight exhaust, still looking for more power
1999 3500 4x4 Chassis cab Emerald green ISB 5 spd 4. 10 K&N Filter straight exhaust 9 ft flatbed definitely in need of MORE POWER!!

 

[Archive]

The Cummins spec. for the lift (checked with a dial indicator at the spill port plunger) of each engine is found on the CPL spec. plate on the side of the timing gear cover.
Big Don: '92 5spd. CPL 1351: ORIGINAL SPECIFICATION SETTING is 1. 25mm of lift. The NEW PUMP is set at 1. 35mm dial indicator reading. I KNOW it is an optimal setting, and an optimized pump.

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92cum'ns 5spd 4wd all possible mods. to void warranty.
SILENCER RING REMOVED FROM BLOW BY TUBE


[This message has been edited by old school (edited 12-28-1999). ]

 

[Archive]

settle down Old school,

Did not mean to excite you or specify what your truck was or was not. I was just trying to relay info to another reader on what Piers at BD told me regarding these pump timing issues. If I missed it I'm sorry. To those interested please call Piers at BD. He has been helping me with info on this.

Have a good day all


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1989 D 250 Ice blue met. 5 spd 3. 54 Banks stage III powerpack straight exhaust, still looking for more power
1999 3500 4x4 Chassis cab Emerald green ISB 5 spd 4. 10 K&N Filter straight exhaust 9 ft flatbed definitely in need of MORE POWER!!

 

[Archive]

No offence or excitment taken. Just relating the original setting, and the gone to setting.
Regards

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92 CUM'NS/DODGE 5spd. , 4wd, 3. 54 gear, 16cm2 hot end housing, mod. injectors, mod. pump, K&N, 3 1/2 exhaust, pyro/boost gages, 4"H. D. suspension, 305 85R16's on 3000# alum. wheels