Suppliers for ATF+4

[DJaquez]

Now that Chrysler was supposed to allow other suppliers to make ATF+4 where can it be purchased? I need to chnage my Transission and TXCase and prefer not to pay 8. 00 a quart.

 

[keimmmo]

I too would hate to pay $8. 00 per quart for oil! (I could see it during the warranty period. ) I have not found ATF+4 here in Mexico ANY PLACE at ANY price!!! I have been using good 'ol Dexron III in the trans and synthetic 5W-30 motor oil in the transfer case for nearly 100k miles. Everything seems to be working fine.



Now, if they get the price of the ATF+4 comparable to other ATF, I would be glad to use it! Let me know too if it ever happens!!!



Steve Keim

 

[Texasrattler]

I pay $16 for a gallon bottle at the dealer and $4. 37 (I think) for the quart. That's cheaper that Mobil1 synthetic (just comparing product price not the porduct). I doubt if the aftermarket can sell it cheaper, but it would be nice.



Pete

 

[amsoilman]

Now that Chrysler was supposed to allow other suppliers to make ATF+4 where can it be purchased? I need to chnage my Transission and TXCase and prefer not to pay 8. 00 a quart.

Amsoil has had ATF+4 for quite some time now.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Bob4x4]

Amsoil has had ATF+4 for quite some time now.



Wayne

amsoilman

Is it ATF 4 or is it what Amsoil says will replace ATF 4?



Bob

 

[Grayhackle]

Wayne, Just checked Amsoil's website and can't identify any transmission fluid as ATF+4. Do they call it something else?

 

[Badunit]

They call it Universal ATF



http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx



None of their stuff is rated. You either believe them or you don't.

 

[amsoilman]

They call it Universal ATF



http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx



None of their stuff is rated. You either believe them or you don't.

Badunit,

What is your definition of "RATED"?



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Bob4x4]

I have been in the automotive industry for almost 30 years,Amsoilman please explain to me how none of the listed fluids(in the amsoil site) are interchangeable according to the OEM's and many of those OEM's have bulletins about incorrect fluids causing irratic shifts and or shudders,that yours will work universally.



Bob

 

[TCDiesel]

I have been in the automotive industry for almost 30 years,Amsoilman please explain to me how none of the listed fluids(in the amsoil site) are interchangeable according to the OEM's and many of those OEM's have bulletins about incorrect fluids causing irratic shifts and or shudders,that yours will work universally.



Bob

Bob4x4,I have been down this road with Amsoilman,Ams has great Fluid but its NOT ATF+4,You will just be wasting band-with.

 

[2Gen3Gen]

I have been in the automotive industry for almost 30 years,Amsoilman please explain to me how none of the listed fluids(in the amsoil site) are interchangeable according to the OEM's and many of those OEM's have bulletins about incorrect fluids causing irratic shifts and or shudders,that yours will work universally.



Bob

From what Ive seen with Amsoil is it is expensive so they want you to think it will work in your truck. . Wrong! The dealer stated that if I try it and the trans fails, I pay the bill. No Amsoil for me. . Im not using anything that reminds me of Amway in My truck. If it is $8 a quart at the dealer, so be it. I want to keep my warranty and Amsoil will not pay for any trans replacement if it fails. Ask any salesman. If he says another story, ask another one. I did and never got the same story. Stick with the mopar fluid and save your warranty. Its also the "Amsoil guy" that leaves the stuff in his truck for 15k miles. . Not my idea of taking good care of your investment

 

[MikeBeggy]

Well said 2Gen3Gen. My experience and sentiments exactly.

 

[amsoilman]

From what Ive seen with Amsoil is it is expensive so they want you to think it will work in your truck. . Wrong! The dealer stated that if I try it and the trans fails, I pay the bill. No Amsoil for me. . Im not using anything that reminds me of Amway in My truck. If it is $8 a quart at the dealer, so be it. I want to keep my warranty and Amsoil will not pay for any trans replacement if it fails. Ask any salesman. If he says another story, ask another one. I did and never got the same story. Stick with the mopar fluid and save your warranty. Its also the "Amsoil guy" that leaves the stuff in his truck for 15k miles. . Not my idea of taking good care of your investment

Here ya go... ... ... ... ... ... ..... a WRITTEN WARRANTY with regards to using Amsoil lubricants. http://www.amsoil.com/warranty.aspx



I do beleive a Company that has been in business OVER 30 years, is not going to recommend their product IF it is going to do damgage to something! BTW, they were the FIRST Company to offer Synthetics for automotive use, and the FIRST to offer a Synthetic ATF!



I have been involved with Amsoil since 1980, and have NEVER seen or HEARD of one of their lubricants directly causing damage. I have heard of CLAIMS of causing problems, but when it came down to it, the lubricant WAS NOT the cause.



As far as the ATF (which is the subject ot this thread) is concerned, I have used in MANY of my own vehicles, some that have gone over 150,000 miles without ANY problems what-so-ever!



Respectfully,



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[B.G. Smith]

There is some Chrysler +-4 on E-Bay. I think I have paid around $2. 50 a quart at dealer, about 40% off the regular price of around $3. 50. bg

 

[JCleary]

I paid $4. 10 per quart for ATF+4, $9. 67 per quart for the synthetic 75w90, and $15 per quart for the synthetic MTL! The local dealer is a rip-off, but at least I don't have to pay those thieves for the labor.



That being said, I'm not cheap enough to try something other than the recommended fluids. A couple quarts of overpriced oil is certainly cheaper than a rebuild of a transfer case, transmission, or differential.



How much cheaper is the licensed product going to be? Maybe $1 per quart cheaper. Not worth it in my book, especially at 15k mile intervals.

 

[DJaquez]

I found it at Dave Smith Motors in Kellog ID for 4. 10 per quart. Shipping is free and no tax so I am happy to wait the three-four days to get it. Super folks to deal with and they provide free shipping to TDR members.



Thanks for your inputs/replies.

 

[Badunit]

Badunit,

What is your definition of "RATED"?



Wayne

amsoilman

Perhaps with ATF and gear oils there is no independent testing required so my general statement may not apply to ATF. Amsoil does not bother to get API ratings on its engine oils, which is where my statement came from. Doesn't matter, I use it anyway and it seems to work well.

 

[GaryCarter]

You will note that a product like Mobil 1 for instance will say "Meets Specifications" xxx and so forth. Meaning it has been tested and is guaranteed to meet the standard cited.

Amsoil says "Recommended for" xxx.



I have used Amsoil in the past to replace ATF+3 and I was entirely satisfied, so I'm not an amsoil basher. BUT- any single fluid that claims to be a suitable replacement for every variation of ATF out there... . believe it if you want. I don't.



Gary

 

[amsoilman]

I have been in the automotive industry for almost 30 years,Amsoilman please explain to me how none of the listed fluids(in the amsoil site) are interchangeable according to the OEM's and many of those OEM's have bulletins about incorrect fluids causing irratic shifts and or shudders,that yours will work universally.



Bob

Unlike motor oils, which are tied to API and SAE specs, ATF has to meet the OEM specs to which the ATF is going to be used in.



In the case of Ford Mercon for example, "Flash Point", "Brookfield Viscositties", "NOAK Volitility", (ABOT) "Aluminum Beaker Oxidation Test", "Friction Durability Evaluation tests" are all used to determine if the ATF fluid will meet/exceed the Ford Mercon requirement.



GM as well as Chrysler uses some of these same tests, but have differing limits.



Just to show you some of the mercon requirements for the ABOT, which has SIX important factors, the first is the running time. The Mercon spec requires the fluid be exposed to high temperatures in an aluminum beaker for 300 hours. After heat exposure, several measurments are made on the test fluid to test the fluid's resistance to oxidation.



PENTANE INSOLUBALES



Pentane is a solvent in which ATF is soluble but oxidation products and metals are insoluble. Insoluble materials form solids that precipitate out of the pentane/ATF solution. The solid materials are wieghed. Since most of the wieght comes from oxidation products, the weight of the pentane insolubles indicates the degree to which the ATF oxidized in the aluminum beaker test. The Mercon spec required a maximum for pentane insolubles of 0. 5% by weight. The Amsoil was 0. 23% by weight, indicating very little oxidation after 700 hours!.



(TAN) Total Acid Number indicates a fluid's acidic potential. A fluid's TAN increases as a result of oxidation. Mercon spec allows a 4 point increase in acidic potential. Amsoil exhibits a 0. 62 point increase after 700 hours.



VISCOSITY INCREASE

Fluid viscosity increases with oxidation. Oxidation creates solid materials that thicken the fluid. Mercon spec requires no more than 40% viscosity increase. Amsoil shows no Viscosity increase after 700 hours.



COPPER STRIP CORROSION



A copper strip is bathed in the test ATF and the degree to which is corodes is determined by its color and general appearance after exposure. The evaluation schedule ends at 3d, total corrosion. The Mercon spec is 3b maximum, general blackening. Amsoil exhibits a 1b rating, slight discoloration, or negligable copper corrosion after 700 hours.



There are other tests as well, but those mentioned above are pretty much what the OEM's use, only the methods and limits are different. GM calls their high heat tests (THOT) Turbo Hydromatic Oxidation Tests. Chrysler pretty much follows GM, with the exception of their friction durability tests used to evaluate the shift characteristics of ATF.



Hope this helps some.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[2Gen3Gen]

My intent is NOT to BASH Amsoil but, if it isnt supported by the guys that hold my warranty, it will NEVER see my truck. Trans oil or crankcase! Also. No one in their right state of mind would ever leave ANY oil in their motor for 15000 miles that I know. Paying the $40 for a lube oil and filter change along with checking all my other fluids and NOT GETTING MY HANDS DIRTY, is worth the peace of mind, knowing that my oil is as described in the service manuel and knowing that the dealer has record that the work was done should there ever be a problem down the road.