Surprising result worth noting (Turbo Air Guide)

[DPKetchum]

The WOOD clothes pins on each injector line really helps. Helps cool the fuel for better total combustion.

 

[d.miner]

Someone is working hard and working with many of us to improve our engines and the best you two monkeys can do is make fun about magnets and clothes pins... .



Shame on you !

 

[DPKetchum]

I'll refrane from any more comments about the tag.

 

[OHale]

Someone is working hard and working with many of us to improve our engines and the best you two monkeys can do is make fun about magnets and clothes pins... .

QUOTE]



That about sums it up, thank you for restating it for me. I respect any effort to try something new, even if it fails to meet expectations.



Don't forget these three things:



1. You too are descended from a monkey.

2. A lot of money is being charged for this product. If you check the initial post, astonishing claims have been made for this device. If there is shame here I recommend you go searching for it elsewhere.

3. A sense of humor makes all things easier.



Glad I could be of help



PS, recall this post (excerpted)

"The difference on my stock truck was a REAL KICK IN THE PANTS! Man this was more than noticeable it was fun. The spool up was dramatically improved and the truck ran with the responce and kick of a high performance gasoline big block but pulled with bigggg torque in 5th and 6th. I went hot rodding, this was "fun", and I am wondering? If I really need a fueling box. Especially after I get the exhaust reworked and an Afe on this thing. REALLY! I can't beleive that the engineers of the major manufacturers haven't tryed this or did Dave just beat them to the punch. "

 

[JHardwick]

My main question about the TAG has always been the amount of surface area decrease. I finally broke down and spent the 1/2 hour to figure it out.



A honeycomb filling a 3. 73" dia. hole using . 004" thick material and a . 125" cell opening creates a 6. 1% reduction in available surface area (or volume) and by reading the above, adds 30% more drag in the airstream.



I'll admit that I haven't followed this as close as I should have to be making this post. But, I've not seen any gains in HP or fuel economy substantiated ... ... ... but none really lost either.



That tells me that this device eats up 6. 1% of intake area, adds 30% resistance and in the long run negates itself. It has to be doing something to not net an overall loss.



I'll admit, I was very skeptical in the beginning, but if it were me I think I'd be looking at larger cell openings and/or thinner wall material. I don't think this is anything that's gonna turn the world on it's ear, but it is doing something.



I'll revert back to my original comment when this TAG thing 1st started ... ... .



Turbos have been around for a lot of years. A lot of high priced engineers sit around and study how to make them more efficient every year. I'm sure that this idea has been entertained and probably tested, but yet no major turbo combany offers it.



Here is my solid model ... ... ... ... .

 

[Mundgyver]

So if everyone is worried about the TAG eating up space and creating drag, then why not just increase the diameter by 1 1/2 inches for the intake and TAG. No restriction, no drag and see where that goes

 

[DPKetchum]

Wow. I'm impressed! Not with the tag but with JHardwick!

 

[CUMMINZ]

Tag

I only read a few of the posts above and only respond because I am running a tornado. My thoughts on twirling air vs. straightened out air flow is this and I don't know much. I water drain pipe no matter what size will flow more water if slightly less than full and acting like a vortex than will a completely full pipe. This is proven. If the flow of air enters my intake pipe from air filter as a straight flow, would seem that the swirl that a tornado gives might increase the actual volumn of air that reaches the turbo fan. What do I know... I am keeping my tornado till I upgrade to a much larger system. At this point my truck has never acted like it was starved for fuel or air. Speaking from an engineering standpoint a 4" pipe can't flow but so much air. Items stuck in this airflow may help a little but the only good way is to either straighen out the flow (straighten out the pipe) and increase the size of the pipe.

 

[DPKetchum]

Mine eaither.

 

[JHardwick]

In reading this thread, the tornado has come up a couple of times.



Be careful in that any turbulance enhancement is generally targeted to gas engines.



I spent years racing gas engines and when I last quit following the fad was golf ball dimples on plenum bottoms, port walls and piston tops. This was to create turbulance and keep fuel suspended for a better burn ... ... ... ... I don't think it applies in a diesel.

 

[CUMMINZ]

Tornado

I will tomorrow if weather lets me, get my truck to a good straight spot with TST on #3, go from dead standstill floorboarded and run for a while and time it. I will then remove the tornado and do the same thing. Results from some jail in NC.



My truck at www.GoRowan.com/2004ram

 

[rbattelle]

I water drain pipe no matter what size will flow more water if slightly less than full and acting like a vortex than will a completely full pipe. This is proven.

I'm not sure this is true. Do you have a specific source in mind for the proof that a swirling flow results in a higher flow rate than a fully-developed turbulent flow? Where does the energy to generate the large vortex come from?



On edit:

There's no question that a radial compressor wants minimum turbulence at the impeller to achieve maximum flow through the machine. Using a device like a Tornado runs exactly counter to this.



-Ryan

[NO OFFENSE to anyone here! Just expressing my (hopefully educated) opinions... ]

 

[CUMMINZ]

We were taught this in college studying waste water treatment. A full pipe of water will not run with the same volumn as a pipe that has a very small amount of air at the top of the pipe. The partially full pipe will run more gallons per minute. Now what this might have in reference to turbulent air flow I don't know. The vortex is partially created by the rotation of the earth. Any pipe that is carrying water even with the entire pipe under water will create a vortex and suck air. Why does the center of a tornado (the storm) rotate.

 

[rbattelle]

We were taught this in college studying waste water treatment. A full pipe of water will not run with the same volumn as a pipe that has a very small amount of air at the top of the pipe. The partially full pipe will run more gallons per minute. Now what this might have in reference to turbulent air flow I don't know. The vortex is partially created by the rotation of the earth. Any pipe that is carrying water even with the entire pipe under water will create a vortex and suck air. Why does the center of a tornado (the storm) rotate.

A tornado rotates because it's a giant vortex. It does make sense to me that a pipe flowing water with a small amount of air will flow better than a pipe full only of air - the friction coefficient of air across the walls of a pipe is MUCH less than that for water.



I'm just unsure whether the presence of a very large scale vortex in the flow will increase the flow rate versus fully developed turbulent flow. I honestly don't know for sure, but my intuition tells me it won't. If you imagine yourself as a fluid element traveling along the pipe, you'll cover significantly less total distance if you travel straight (or nearly straight) through the pipe rather than running thousands of spirals around the inner circumference of the pipe. I'm not saying this is fact, I'm just trying to reason things out. Not to mention the presence of a very low-energy region of flow at the vortex center (like the eye of a hurricane).



As the strength of the vortex increases you'd eventually reach a point where flow along the axis of the pipe would be zero and all the flow would be "stuck" to the walls (held in place by the resultant friction force created by the centripetal acceleration of the fluid).



Only way to test this would be an experiment, which I'd be willing to do if I had the equipment. Hmmmm...



-Ryan

 

[barbwire]

Knowing that you like to tinker with things, I am anxiously waiting for your results. It sure would be interesting to spend a day or two at Car_nut's garage, wouldn't it? If only we could shorten the miles..... Go for it Ryan

 

[rbattelle]

Knowing that you like to tinker with things

Translation: "Knowing that you like to take systems in perfect working order and re-engineer them until they don't work right... " :-laf :-laf



I thought about the big swirling vortex thing a little more, and I think the fact that in a large vortex you've got a large central region of VERY low energy might be the key to the problem. Take, for example, the demonstration they like to run on the "Tornado" infomercial with the 2 coke bottles taped together and the giant vortex they generate between them. There's a huge central region there with no water flowing in it - only air! I find it hard to believe that would flow more water than a steady homogeneous turbulent flow would.



A good bashing of the Tornado and the TAG!



Another good anti-Tornado thread.



-Ryan

 

[CUMMINZ]

Tornado

Another dumb example: If you have an a/c system in your home, while it is running, if you can hear the air entering the grate of the return, there are restrictions to the air flow. If you make the return much oversize you can actually make the return totally quite. This will place more air volumn to the air handler. Making the system more efficient. What ever means we get the larger air flow to the blades of the turbo the greater the efficiency of the turbo. I think if the air at the blades has been turning backward flips in the pipe from the filter,,, the air flow on the exhaust end of the turbo has been totally shaped by the turbo itself. So I think what ever we do no matter how we do it, the turbo is better of with a larger volumn of air.

 

[GLASMITHS]

So are there any real results? Is this still available?

 

[JHardwick]

:-laf



same results as a tornado or turtle or whatever it is that they sell on late nite TV ... ... ... ... . oh, get some fuel magnets too :-{}

 

[rbattelle]

same results as a tornado or turtle or whatever it is that they sell on late nite TV ... ... ... ... . oh, get some fuel magnets too :-{}

Ooooo, man that hurts! :-laf



[BTW, I didn't bother with fuel magnets... I just always drive due North. :-laf ]



-Ryan