Synthetic Auto Transmission Fluid

[yogibear]

Sounds like a lot of "rear ends" are chattering on this thread!!

 

[klenger]

Sure is great when sales people join the forums... . you can always count on an unbiased endorsment.

So only members who do not use Amsoil can comment on it's benefits? That should take care of any unbiased comments. :-laf

 

[GaryCarter]

Amsoil discussions. Sheesh. #ad

Heck, that's the best thing that's come out of this thread.



I swiped him. With your permission I hope?



Gary



#ad

 

[Okey0]

I am not an amsoil dealer, but i do have experience with it. I had a '90 plymouth laser that I purchased with 99,000 miles on the odom. first thing i did was changed all the fluids. the trans called for dexron II, so that is what i used. at 130,000 miles, overdrive stopped working. I changed the fluid to amsoil. at 150,000 miles or so, i gave the car to my step son. it now has about 190,000 miles on it, and it still has that amsoil in the transmission, with no problems so far. The plain old dexron went 30,000 miles, the amsoil is at 60,000. I realize an auto transmission behind a 100HP 4 cylinder is a little different than the 48RE behind 305HP, but the results I had are enough to convince me that amsoil is the way to go-for ME. you, on the other hand, are free to choose what you want.

 

[hasselbach]

I am not an amsoil dealer, but i do have experience with it. I had a '90 plymouth laser that I purchased with 99,000 miles on the odom. first thing i did was changed all the fluids. the trans called for dexron II, so that is what i used. at 130,000 miles, overdrive stopped working. I changed the fluid to amsoil. at 150,000 miles or so, i gave the car to my step son. it now has about 190,000 miles on it, and it still has that amsoil in the transmission, with no problems so far. The plain old dexron went 30,000 miles, the amsoil is at 60,000. I realize an auto transmission behind a 100HP 4 cylinder is a little different than the 48RE behind 305HP, but the results I had are enough to convince me that amsoil is the way to go-for ME. you, on the other hand, are free to choose what you want.

Was the Plymouth Lazer a CAR or a Kitchen Blender? :-laf



Man, if my dad gave me one, I think I would have purposely got into drugs, alcohol and crime to get even. .

 

[Okey0]

Was the Plymouth Lazer a CAR or a Kitchen Blender? :-laf



Man, if my dad gave me one, I think I would have purposely got into drugs, alcohol and crime to get even. .

, it was paid off the day i bought it, and it has provided 7 trouble free years since. i cant say that about any other vehicle i've owned. If the Ram can go 190,000 miles trouble free, I'll be surprised (and happy) Oo.

 

[TAMitchell]

Holy cow guys, sure didn't mean to start a discussion on Amsoil, sure was interesting reading though. The best part is my dealer service guy didn't even know the +4 was synthetic when I asked him the same question. He was afraid synthetic would mess up the shift points and that I better not try it. Kind of shakes my confidence a little bit!

 

[RKerner]

Hello, my name is Rick and I have been using Amsoil in my transmission since May 2005... Seriously, I don't notice better or worse performance and I don't have a temp gauge to know if it runs cooler. Since it has been warm all winter here, I cannot say cold driveaway is better. In my Yota, it was very noticeably better with Amsoil transmission fluid and gear lubes.



Now if you want to talk snakeoil, then start a thread on Blue Marble two stroke oil... Oo.

 

[FLynes]

I'm pretty new to this website and very new to CTD's... . you can see in my signature what my first Ram was. The only time I have ever even heard about Amsoil was when I was stationed in Hawaii and my Corvette repair guy in Honolulu sold it. He swore it was the best stuff on the planet. He also swore that the brakes on my 1979 Vette were fixed..... four master cylinders later they still weren't.



I have no opinion whatsoever on this product. What I would like to see is an independent bench test conducted on two identical 48RE transmissions under load, one with the Mopar synthetic and one with the Amsoil synthetic and see which one gives out first.



I don't care what a company has to say about the performance of their product or how superior it is to all other products. I don't care about testimonials either. What I want to see are cold, hard unbiased facts. As the folks from Missouri say, "Show Me".



Frederic

 

[john3976]

I like the Redline C+ transmission fluid, Redline makes a very good product.



Royal Purple goes in the Rear end and Engine and I put Purple Ice in the radiator.

 

[amsoilman]

Yes, the factory fluid is synthetic. An often overlooked fact by the snake oil pushers.



Link



Gary

I appreciate the fact that someone actually has posted a link to some very good info on synthetic ATF. However, do you you realize there are many different Base stocks to make the synthetics from.



1-Polyalphaolefins (PAO's)



2-Synthetic Esters

a. Dibasic Acid Esters (Diesters)

b. Polyol Esters

c. Phosphated Esters



3-Polyalkylene Glycols (PAG's)



4-Silicones.



And lastly, Hydrocracked oil, which is a Highly refined petroleum product.

This last one (Hydrocracked oil) was allowed to be used as a "Base Stock" to make a "SYNTHETIC" lubricant due to a court battle between Mobil and Castrol. This occurred in 1999, when Mobil took Castrol to court claiming on TV the Castrol "Syntec" was not a synthetic, as they were using a hydrocracked petroleum to make their synthetic oils from, and still charging the higher prices for their synthetic, versus the PAO based Synthetics on the market at the time.



The ruling released in April of 1999, stated the National Advertising Division (NAD) addressed complaints filed by Mobil Oil Corp. regarding the truthfulness of Castrol North America Inc. 's claim that its Syntec provides "superior engine protection" to ALL other motor oils, both synthetic and conventional, and Syntec's esters provide "unique molecular bonding". Mobil charged that the advertisements inaccurately represented that the current formulation of Syntec is Synthetic. The challenge was filled based on statements castrol made in a series of Television Commercials, Web site publications, package labels and brocures.

The bottom line was Mobil lost the case, as the court ruled their advertising was OK, as the SAE had determined earlier that any oil made through the process of sever cracking, and reforming processes may be marketed as "Synthetic"



Each of the above base stocks have differing characteristics, some very excellent. Some not so good.



There are also 5 levels of oil additive packages that the oil Companies can use or purchase to put in their products to complete the overall product. The highest level of these is 5 times more expensive than the lowest!



There are seven common oil additive families.



1-Anti-wear agents: These help to minimize metal-to-metal contact by chemically forming a film on metal surfaces to help reduce engine cylinder and piston ring wear.

2-Corrosion inhibitors: They help to prevent chemical attack from contaminants formed in the lubricant during the combustion process.

3-Detergent and Dispersants: These chemically neutralize acid contaminants in the oil before they become insoluble and form sludge. Particles are kept finely divided so they remain dispersed and suspended in the oil.

4-Foam inhibitors: These cause small bubbles to combine into larger bubbles that burst more easily therefore reducing foaming, which reduces lubrication.

5-Oxidation inhibitors: These help to lengthen oil life by reducing oil oxidation, which increases oil viscosity.

6-Rust inhibitors: These chemicals protect iron and steel engine parts from rusting due to water contamination. Heating and cooling of engine parts and lubricants leads to condensation and water formation.

7-Viscosity index improvers: These help oils to flow better, particularly when cold. And when the engine and lubricants are hot, they “thicken” oil so it adheres to internal surfaces better.



Now how about price!



If you have a large Company that has "Stock Holders", they want higher profits from their investments. So the oil Company's with Stock holders will formulate their oils to the lowest cost, that will still meet the requirements set forth by the API and the SAE, which I might add are MINIMUM requirements. Example: a $. 89 cent quart of oil can meet the minimum requirements!



To Amsoil's defence, they are a private family owned Company, and do not have stock holders, so they can put the dollars into their products, and still have a competitive price, but have a much better and superior product!



As far as I know, they are the only Oil Company that will warranty their oils for up to 35,000 miles or 1 year which ever occurs first, and have done for over 30 years! Do you know of any others?



Best regards,





Wayne

 

[pwr2tow]

Oh, I beleave in synthetics but what I really want to know is this.

I have the 2005 in my signature and it has a 7/70,000 and 7/100,000 warranty. If I was using a none API certified fluid in the transmission, transfer case, front and rear axles and at 50,000 miles one of the formentioned parts has a failure and DC decides to void my warranty because I did not use an API certified oil. Will the amsoil stand by me and help fight DC or will they stand behind me with their thumb up their (you fill in the rest)? How about if DC claims it's an oil related failure, will amsoil fight this issue? Will amsoil and DC debate this issue for years while I sit with the bill incurring interest? I really don't know how to say it but I really don't want amsoil coming on and saying well of course we'll help, I want a guarantee they will help.



I didn't mean to single out amsoil but they are the only ones on TDR that keep coming into these threads promoting their products. I also am not trying to badger amsoil, I would like to use their product but after losing my warranty on my last truck I'am really gun shy. Just to be fair to amsoil, No I did not lose my warranty over an oil related problem or anything at all to do with an amsoil product.



If there is any other synthetic fluids representative out there please feel free to respond, just put your name where I typed amsoil.



Thank you for your time.

 

[john3976]

Royal Purple is API certified so no problem with their Diesel Engine oils.



Royal Purple meets the GL5 specs for their rear end gear lube so again no problem.



Redline states their ATF C+ is ATF +4 compatable and list the number for ATF +4 so that should be ok.



Chrysler has released the ATF =4 specs for license so there should be several different ATF +4 campatable fluids available now.

 

[john3976]

Amsoil man sez:



""Now how about price!



If you have a large Company that has "Stock Holders", they want higher profits from their investments. So the oil Company's with Stock holders will formulate their oils to the lowest cost, that will still meet the requirements set forth by the API and the SAE, which I might add are MINIMUM requirements. Example: a $. 89 cent quart of oil can meet the minimum requirements!



To Amsoil's defence, they are a private family owned Company, and do not have stock holders, so they can put the dollars into their products, and still have a competitive price, but have a much better and superior product!



As far as I know, they are the only Oil Company that will warranty their oils for up to 35,000 miles or 1 year which ever occurs first, and have done for over 30 years! Do you know of any others?""









You could explain why Amsoil is not API certified, it is one reason, to much ZDDP causes the Amsoil products to fail API tests.



When did Amsoil change from 25,000 miles to 35,000 miles? Just what is the warranty for 35,000 miles? will they warranty my 300,000 mile engine if it blows up due to Amsoil failing? or does Amsoil only apply during the original manufactures warranty period?

 

[Diesel Power]

Amsoil man sez:



""Now how about price!



If you have a large Company that has "Stock Holders", they want higher profits from their investments. So the oil Company's with Stock holders will formulate their oils to the lowest cost, that will still meet the requirements set forth by the API and the SAE, which I might add are MINIMUM requirements. Example: a $. 89 cent quart of oil can meet the minimum requirements!



To Amsoil's defence, they are a private family owned Company, and do not have stock holders, so they can put the dollars into their products, and still have a competitive price, but have a much better and superior product!



As far as I know, they are the only Oil Company that will warranty their oils for up to 35,000 miles or 1 year which ever occurs first, and have done for over 30 years! Do you know of any others?""









You could explain why Amsoil is not API certified, it is one reason, to much ZDDP causes the Amsoil products to fail API tests.



When did Amsoil change from 25,000 miles to 35,000 miles? Just what is the warranty for 35,000 miles? will they warranty my 300,000 mile engine if it blows up due to Amsoil failing? or does Amsoil only apply during the original manufactures warranty period?

man thats a good question, none of amsoil products have ever failed the api test's, acually the way amsoil test's there products have been adopted as a american standard for api tests!! the noack votality test is one, in fact if you look into the past api rated oils almost all of amsoils fluids were at one time rated api approved, over time, and having well more products than any one else in the oil industry---the cost was more than it needed to be, now thw oils that are key are api approved but all of them are rated, meaning that all have met or exceded all api tests, you guys should really do more research on amsoil----about 30 years worth!!! :-laf the truth is that amsoil just is not for every one. !!

 

[WNowlan]

I doubt there will be many licensed products out soon. The cost is prohibitive along with the required testing. Chrysler did release ATF +4 based on a law suit filed by ILMA (Independent Lube Manufacturers Association). Chrysler is also introducing a new product! (ATF +5?) GM is has G6 coming out.



Transmission fluids are a different beast. They are by far the most complex fluids we make. Whenever you make a product that is for multipurpose you do have a compromise. After all they would not go to all of the trouble of developing these fluids if you could just use one! It is true of engine oils as well!



Most of the major oil companies do have multi-vehicle fluids out there that meet the needs of the various manufactures. Are they the best fluid for the job? NO. Will they perform under normal circumstances? Yes.



The company I work for has a couple of options. One a true PAO Synthetic option, another Group III option. I run Chrysler ATF +4. I also get it for free from one of my customers, but that is a different story.



Amsoil is a good product (PAO) and will provide good service. I have not seen any recent test data on the product, but I have in the past.



Brands are what drive cost of most products. We all have the same raw unit cost for a similiar product. You can look at see what the market cost for these fluids are on several websites. It is they way we take the products to the market that makes the biggest difference. The biggest cost are transportation and packaging for all of us. Some advertise more, so that adds to cost and so on.



In the end, it is you the consumer who tells us how much we can charge!

 

[john3976]

man thats a good question, none of amsoil products have ever failed the api test's, acually the way amsoil test's there products have been adopted as a american standard for api tests!! the noack votality test is one, in fact if you look into the past api rated oils almost all of amsoils fluids were at one time rated api approved, over time, and having well more products than any one else in the oil industry---the cost was more than it needed to be, now thw oils that are key are api approved but all of them are rated, meaning that all have met or exceded all api tests, you guys should really do more research on amsoil----about 30 years worth!!! :-laf the truth is that amsoil just is not for every one. !!

Ah yes, the old time honored Amsoil myth of Amsoil is not API ceritfied because of the cost factor, to bad for you that Amsoil let sit lip out a while back that the real reason their top oils are not API certified is because they fail, yes that is right they fail API testing due to containing to much ZDDP.

 

[john3976]

Cut and paste from an Amsoil web site admitting why Amsoil does not meet API standards:



AMSOIL INC. has determined that the reduced wear and extended drain intervals achievable with phosphorous levels higher than the API limit of . 10% are real benefits for the consumer, and pose no risk to catalytic converters. AMSOIL motor oils, except for the API licensed XL-7500 5W-30, 5W-20 and 10W-30 viscosity grades, all have greater than . 10% phosphorous levels, and therefore, cannot be API licensed.



Why Some AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils Are API Licensed And Some Are Not



1. Full API licensing puts AMSOIL INC. in an inflexible position. Not only would we find it necessary to buy formula components from specific vendors and be at the mercy of their pricing, we would not be able to make any major improvements to the lubricant formulas for 2 to 3 years, without new testing and the associated costs. To solve this problem, the API must establish basestock interchange guidelines for synthetic basestocks just as they have for other basestocks, as well as develop interchange guidelines for other components too.



2. Full API licensing would impose strict phosphorous limitations on our motor oils. This limitation is the main reason most AMSOIL motor oils are not API licensed. AMSOIL INC. currently disagrees with this limitation and feels strongly that the reduced wear and longer oil and additive life achieved through higher levels of properly balanced phosphorous content is more important than the arbitrary API phosphorous limit that does not give any consideration to the NOACK volatility level of an oil. When chemistry is developed that will provide superior engine wear protection with reduced phosphorous levels, or Noack volatility considerations are put in place, then the phosphorous level will become a non-issue.

 

[Diesel Power]

Ah yes, the old time honored Amsoil myth of Amsoil is not API ceritfied because of the cost factor, to bad for you that Amsoil let sit lip out a while back that the real reason their top oils are not API certified is because they fail, yes that is right they fail API testing due to containing to much ZDDP.

your oppinon is not much without proveing it, do you know how many other api approved oils have the same amount or more ZDDP? answer--alot!! look in to it. red line, royal purple, moblile one castrol syntec all have that stuff in it!!

 

[WNowlan]

ZDDP is not a bad thing. It just causes our catalytic converters to fail over time. It has been the best antiwear additive for years.