Synthetic Auto Transmission Fluid

[Diesel Power]

and the reason for the limits are because its a synthetic oil trying to make old and out dated petrolium standards,(chemical and mineral) thats why almost all sythetic products are a blend!!!! belive me that is a deep and long subject!! :-laf

 

[Diesel Power]

ZDDP is not a bad thing. It just causes our catalytic converters to fail over time. It has been the best antiwear additive for years.

i've never seen any proof on that, but who wants a converter any way? :-laf :-laf

 

[WNowlan]

Everyone uses group I oils as a carrier for additives in synthetics.



As the oil burns in the combustion chamber, the zinc is sent out the pipe and it plates out in the converter making the catalyst less effective at reducing emissions. The EPA mandates that the car companies warrant these things in 05-06 to 150,000 miles. Engine manufacuteres say lower the limit. so we did. that is part of GF-4 SM. It is coming in CJ4 the new desiel spec in October as well. Lower ZDDP will be mandated.

 

[Diesel Power]

better emissions= a truck that doesent get the anti wear additives it needs, = a truck that does not last long=more truck and gas sales!!! man these guys are smart!!! :-laf

 

[john3976]

your oppinon is not much without proveing it, do you know how many other api approved oils have the same amount or more ZDDP? answer--alot!! look in to it. red line, royal purple, moblile one castrol syntec all have that stuff in it!!

All the oils use ZDDP, Amsoil just uses to much which results in damaging other items in vehicles.



ZDDP is great stuff when used in the right amounts, more is not always better, that is why Amsoil is on the losing side of ZDDP use.

 

[john3976]

and the reason for the limits are because its a synthetic oil trying to make old and out dated petrolium standards,(chemical and mineral) thats why almost all sythetic products are a blend!!!! belive me that is a deep and long subject!! :-laf

Royal Purple is a full synthetic oil and it meets API certification.



You are an Amsoil dealer I bet, you are pulling out all the old time honored Amsoil spoofs.

 

[CFowler]

i wish i could get atf+4 @ 4. 00 qt. last time @ dealer ,2 years ago it was 8. 00a qt.

 

[amsoilman]

Oh, I beleave in synthetics but what I really want to know is this.

I have the 2005 in my signature and it has a 7/70,000 and 7/100,000 warranty. If I was using a none API certified fluid in the transmission, transfer case, front and rear axles and at 50,000 miles one of the formentioned parts has a failure and DC decides to void my warranty because I did not use an API certified oil. Will the amsoil stand by me and help fight DC or will they stand behind me with their thumb up their (you fill in the rest)?



Thank you for your time.

First let me explain if I may about the API "Certification/Licensing". The API only licenses Motor oils, and they, the API, do not require or insist that Motor oils be licensed. There are certain standards that the API has set forth for the oil Companies in association with the Engine manufacturers, such as the oil Service/Performance classification. The API began licensing engine oils in 1930 to help the consumer understand what to use in their engines.



The most current ones for Gasolene/Diesel.



For Gasolene and Diesel Engine oils, there are primarily two standards.

SUCH AS:

1-API SM/CI-4 PLUS. (API Performance Classification)

2-ILSAC GF-4. (International Lubrication Standardization and Approval Committee. )

If the first listing is the S, then the oil is primarily for gasolene engines. Example:SM/CI-4Plus, the oil would be primarily for Gasolene engines and the M would signify the current status.



The ILSAC GF-4 meets the API SM classification, which is the current one for Gasolene Engines.



The SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) define the lubricants needs, such as Viscosity. The Lubricant manufacturers define the Lubricant capabilities, and the (ASTM) American Standards Testing Materials define the test methods and performance targets for the lubricants.



Then there are the (JASO) Japenese Automobile Standards Organization, and the (ACEA) Association of European Automotive Manufacturers, which have standerds of their own.



Gear lubes, transmission fluids, greases, do not have ANY licensing agreements between the API and the oil manufacturers, and are governed by other organizations, such as the (NLGI) National Lubricating Grease institute for grease Consistency. ATF requirements are set by the Manufacturers of the equipment, such as GM requirement is DEXRON III, Chrysler is ATF Plus 4. Ford is Mercon V.



ALL Lubricants are tested using the ASTM standards.



The BOTTOM line! Lubricants are very complicated when it comes to ALL the requirements and testing, and it is VERY expensive to test oils!



I know this is a long reply, but I hope you are better informed.





Best regards,





Wayne

 

[Diesel Power]

Royal Purple is a full synthetic oil and it meets API certification.



You are an Amsoil dealer I bet, you are pulling out all the old time honored Amsoil spoofs.

the truth be told, not 1 of royal purples oils are 100% synthetic they are a strong blend, that came straight from RR!! i also sell RR, i am just comparing and contrasting. also if it does not say 100% syn its not 100% syn, amsoil and redline are the only syn oil's that i know of that are 100% pure!!! :-laf

 

[Diesel Power]

amsoilman, good post!!

 

[pwr2tow]

Wayne,

Please do not insult my intelligence my brushing me off. I know all about the different licensing standards.



You did not answer any of my questions directly, instead you chose to give information that anyone can look up on the internet and is pretty much irrelivent to my questions.



Please take my questions as being serious. I truely am looking for a lower cost alternative to the dealerships monopoly type high cost prices they charge for their products. I just do not want to loose my warranty. If amsoil products will not keep my truck in compliance with warranty standards set forth by DC then just tell me they won't. I'am referring to drivetrain components not engine oil. I already know where to get low cost engine oil that will let my trucks engine go to 1,000,000 plus miles.



I could care less if an oil is certified or not as long as the company will do everything it can including going to court on my behalf to help me if a vehicle manufacturer denys me warranty.



Thank you for your time.

 

[Diesel Power]

i know you asked wayne, but i think i also could help you, the main concern with your drive train is your viscosity and deposit control which amsoil has covered, with there own warranty that states if any thing oil related happens to your truck amsoil will pay for it! amsoil even recomends up to 100k oil drains for the transmission and diffs, I personally have never ever witnessed a dealership denie warranty because of amsoil! nore have i ever seen a amsoil product fail in any component. plus the dealer CAN NOT void your warranty unless they can PROVE the product or lubricant was the cause. that should settle your nerves alittle. thanks :-laf

 

[john3976]

the truth be told, not 1 of royal purples oils are 100% synthetic they are a strong blend, that came straight from RR!! i also sell RR, i am just comparing and contrasting. also if it does not say 100% syn its not 100% syn, amsoil and redline are the only syn oil's that i know of that are 100% pure!!! :-laf

Just a quick internet search revealed:



Chevron Supreme 100%



Valvoline Synpower 100%



Texaco Havoline 100%



John Deere 100%



Nissan FasFlo 100%



Phillips Tropartic 100%



and the quick kicker Synlube 100%



Synlube says Amsoil was not first in Synthetics see web page:



http://www.synlube.com/synthetic.htm



The list goes on.

 

[amsoilman]

Wayne,

Please do not insult my intelligence my brushing me off. I know all about the different licensing standards.



You did not answer any of my questions directly, instead you chose to give information that anyone can look up on the internet and is pretty much irrelivent to my questions.



Please take my questions as being serious. I truely am looking for a lower cost alternative to the dealerships monopoly type high cost prices they charge for their products. I just do not want to loose my warranty. If amsoil products will not keep my truck in compliance with warranty standards set forth by DC then just tell me they won't. I'am referring to drivetrain components not engine oil. I already know where to get low cost engine oil that will let my trucks engine go to 1,000,000 plus miles.



I could care less if an oil is certified or not as long as the company will do everything it can including going to court on my behalf to help me if a vehicle manufacturer denys me warranty.



Thank you for your time.

pwr2tow,

Sorry you took it that way, as I was just trying to point out the fact that Gear lubes, including ATF is NOT API licensed, just engine oils.



To answer your DIRECT question, "If amsoil products will not keep my truck in compliance with warranty standards set forth by DC. " DC as well as ALL other manufacturers of automobiles, warrant thier vehicles for a period of TIME or MILES against WORKMANSHIP and FAULTY parts... ... ... ... ... ... . period! I'm sure you know that. If a part fails due to its design, manufacture or how it was assembled, they are going to warranty it. IF the part fails due to a lubricant, then it would have to be PROVEN that the lubricant did infact DIRECTLY CAUSE the failure!



If for example YOU had a failure that YOU suspected was lubricant related, It would have to be proven... ... ... . period, and this means ANY lubricant. Amsoil has been in business for more than 30 years, and has never had a failure that has been proven as the DIRECT cause of that failure! THIS IS A FACT, and NOT something that I have dreamed up! This is NOT to say that there have been cases where a claim against them has been made. NONE have ever been proven as the DIRECT cause of the failure! If you think about it, if an oil... ... ..... any oil did infact cause a failure, don't you think that there would be MANY more failures using the same oil? Oils are "blended" by the thousands of gallons! Each "Batch" of oil is marked, and can be tracked very easily as to what date, and time the batch was blended.



I can remeber a few years back when an oil manufacturer (a popular brand) did infact have a "batch" of oil that has the wrong additives in it, and it did infact cause MANY engine failures, which was proven the oil was at fault!



Best regards,





Wayne

 

[Diesel Power]

Just a quick internet search revealed:



Chevron Supreme 100%



Valvoline Synpower 100%



Texaco Havoline 100%



John Deere 100%



Nissan FasFlo 100%



Phillips Tropartic 100%



and the quick kicker Synlube 100%



Synlube says Amsoil was not first in Synthetics see web page:



http://www.synlube.com/synthetic.htm



The list goes on.

i just remembered that mobil took castrol to court over this same thing, for putting 100% on there bottle even though the oil was hydrocracked oil (the highest refinement of petrolium oil) and not accually pure oil, those oils listed are not pure, a quick look at technical properities and analisis will prove that, amsoil's test also show how bad these and many other oils perform, reguardless what the bottle says. and as for your amsoil is not the first statment well the books show that indeed amsoil was the first API rated synthetic oil. a quick internet search should find that. Oo.

 

[pwr2tow]

I know what your saying and that's exactly why I'am skeptical about using a product that does not fall exactly within a vehicle manufacturers fluid specifications. The vehicle manufacturer claims the failure one way and the oil supplier claims the failure another way. The owner is the one who in the end ultimatly pays. If the fluid falls exactly within vehicle manufactures specification then they can not deny warranty, the reason API licensing for motor oils.



I guess instead of all my delicate questions I should have just asked.



1. Does amsoil gear oil meet DC's fluid specifications exactly for AAM axles? Which fluid?



2. Does amsoil MTF meet DC's fluid specifications exactly for the NV5600?



If they exceed specifications that's all the better.



Thank you

 

[Diesel Power]

I know what your saying and that's exactly why I'am skeptical about using a product that does not fall exactly within a vehicle manufacturers fluid specifications. The vehicle manufacturer claims the failure one way and the oil supplier claims the failure another way. The owner is the one who in the end ultimatly pays. If the fluid falls exactly within vehicle manufactures specification then they can not deny warranty, the reason API licensing for motor oils.



I guess instead of all my delicate questions I should have just asked.



1. Does amsoil gear oil meet DC's fluid specifications exactly for AAM axles? Which one?



2. Does amsoil MTF meet DC's fluid specifications exactly for the NV5600?



If they exceed specifications that's all the better.



Thank you

the answer to your questions are 1 yes, 75w-90 or 75w-140 depending on size of axle. 2 the nv 5600 requirers our syncromesh 5-30 manual transmission fluid

all fluids mentioned are exeeding the current requirments. thanks :-laf

 

[pwr2tow]

Now was that so hard to answer.



Who wants to get me some fluids so I don't have to pay the perferred customer thing to get lower prices.

 

[amsoilman]

Just a quick internet search revealed:

Synlube says Amsoil was not first in Synthetics see web page:



http://www.synlube.com/synthetic.htm



The list goes on.

I am NOT going to debate on how many manufactures claim their synthetics are 100%, as I really don't care, simply by the fact that since the 1999 court litigation, ANY oil manufacturer can claim their oil is "Synthetic", therefore it dould be 100% Synthetic.



As to the question of who was first in the synthetics, that was acually Standard Oil Company in 1933. It was primarily in the industrial activities, and was not used in the automobile industry. However the type and how it is now manufactured is entirely different than in 1933.



Then in World war two the most synthetic oils ever produced was produced by the Germans, and used for the cold weather operations for their guns. They made "ESTER" oils from alcohol, because petrolium oil was not very avaiable. Then when the Jet engine appeared at the end of world war two, the synthetics really came into play due to the fact the petrolium oils could not withstand the extreme temperatures between the intake and the exhaust temperatures. They needed a high temperature high performance synthetic lube to address the extremely cold inlet temperatures of -60 F. and the 400 Plus temperatures at the exhaust.

Then in the late 60's a Jet pilot named Amatuzio, could see the big benefits of synthetics in jets, and decided to apply the same technology to the automobile. He and some chemists came up with a synthetic oil that met the requirements of the API. That was in 1972! So Amsoil's claim is the First Synthetic oil for automotive use that met the API requirement at that time.

This has all been documented, and recorded, and NO OIL Company has ever tried to deny that fact! As a matter of fact, Amsoil had to publicly state this fact over a given amount of time to allow ANY of the OIL Companies to claim otherwise. Mr. Amatuzio is a very respected man in the oil industry!



All of these above FACTS were recently shown on the "History" Channel. The program was called "MODERN MARVELS" LUBE JOB. The Amsoil story was told on that program. You can get a copy of it on DVD or cassete tape from the History Channel.



Best regards,



Wayne

 

[amsoilman]

If the fluid falls exactly within vehicle manufactures specification then they can not deny warranty, the reason API licensing for motor oils.



I guess instead of all my delicate questions I should have just asked.



1. Does amsoil gear oil meet DC's fluid specifications exactly for AAM axles? Which fluid?



2. Does amsoil MTF meet DC's fluid specifications exactly for the NV5600?



If they exceed specifications that's all the better.



Thank you

Does amsoil gear oil meet DC's fluid specifications exactly for AAM axles? Which fluid?

Severe Gear 75W-90 or 75W-140

API GL-5/MT-1

MIL-PRF-2105E

GO-J

DANA SHAES 234

(Eaton PS-037)



Does amsoil MTF meet DC's fluid specifications exactly for the NV5600?



NEW Venture NV-T350, NV1500, NV-2550, NV-3500, NV-3550 & NV-5600

Chrysler Part#4874464 & 4874465 Shrysler Spec. MS-9224 & MS-9417





Wayne