Synthetic conversion problems?

[DRyder]

This topic has probably been beat to death but I will ask it anyways. I am considering swaping my oil to synthetic due to its flow properties at sub zero temperatures among other reasons. But, I have only used the mopar brand oil for the truck and have no prior care history before december 2007. From past experience with synthetics in a couple of gasoline cars and trucks they begin to leak after the conversion. I asked my local amsoil guy (not in AK) and he stated it was due to the detergents in the synthetic oil removing the carbon "wedges" from the seals inside the engine that were effectively helping keep the engine from leaking. Is there any truth to this myth? Am going to open a can of worms by converting to synthetic on a cummins with over 80K? Any advice would give me piece of mind, thanks in advance.

 

[icman95]

Everyone will give you a different opinion, but I put Amsoil in my 01 years ago and haven't had a problem since. I did have a dealer's service manager tell me essentially the same thing you just did, but I chalk that up to him being programmmed by Mother Mopar to say these things. A buddy of mine has been using Amsoil in his 98. 5 longer than I've been using it in mine, also with no ill effects. It is more slippery an oil, so if you have an area in the engine that might be prone to leaking, but just hasn't yet, the synthetic might work its way through. In this case the engine would leak with whatever oil you used, it just would happen quicker with the synthetic. This isn't a common scenario, though.

 

[DonFitzwater]

1997 12 valve-Consumed no oil between changes with 120k on the odometer, swapped to Mobil 0w40 diesel oil and it "consumed" 2 quarts a week. All of the seals and gaskets became moist, not wet like a bad leak, just moist. Swapped back to mobil delvac 15w40 and the engine stayed dry after a cleaning and consumed no more oil.



2006 C/R 24 valve-Consumed no oil between changes with 28k on the odometer, swapped to Amsoil 15w40 and bingo! Drinks like an alcholic with a martini. 30k and went back to premium blue. No leaks just burned it.



The 12 valve especially liked starting in the cold with the 0w40 but the extra cost wasn't worth it. I have a bit more cold up here in Fairbanks and have had no issues with running standard old 15w40 year round, just make sure you've got a cold front and plug in @ or around zero degrees. FYI- The neighbor accross the street(everybody has one) has a 2000 24 valve and has been using synthetic pennzoil since about 85k and claims that it doesn't use any oil... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... popped the hood and checked it and it was a gallon low! He has the oil changed at the local jiffy lube every three thousand miles and it was due for a change. I suppose now he knows were all of that black stuff on his garage floor is coming from, every gasket seal on the engine is leaking badly. Not directly related to this story, however proves a point, American Honda states in most of their owners manuals that you can use synthetic oils of certain types, however, you are only increasing your operation costs if you follow the factory recommended service intervals. It all boils down to this... ... ... ... ... ... ... . It's your truck so do what you like!

 

[fox]

Mostly the oil leak issue was for the first syn. oils back in the 70's.



I bet if you guys who have consumption issues changed back to dino oil for 1 cycle, then back to syn it would be fine.

Syn cleans much better and has cleaned the deposits fron the rings.

There it is, my opinion!!!

 

[Grumpy John 4x4]

Amsoil

The way to go ! Amsoil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[steved]

At 162k I changed to Schaeffers 5w40 Series 9000 full syn... its a partial PAO. I have had no issues... and I even left the conventional oil in on average 10k miles per change.

And what he said about the detergents is typically correct, it cleans deposits and causes leaks... in the old days, the synthetic actually attacked the seals.

 

[PLaFrombois]

What I have seen, is most people have the leaks and don't know it until they switch over to synthetics. I run anywhere between 15-20,000 miles for changes. I might have to top off with a full quart, but that's in the winter time. Otherwise, it's maybe 1/2 quart. I also snug the oil pan bolts when I change the oil.



Most of the oils today syn, or petro have detergents. I can't say about the other companies, but Amsoil adds an additive that will work with the gaskets and stop minor leaks.



Paul

 

[MAllen1]

I have been using amsoil 15w-40 marine synthetic since my 99 had 50000 miles on it (now at 230000) without an ounce of truble. I just went from that to a high performance 10w-40 diesel synthetic from amsoil the last couple of oil changes, and, still not any problems. I have been using this 10w-40 in my tractor for 5 yrs. without a problem and decided to concolidate the amount of oil in my garage. It's a little more expensive, but, i've noticed between 1/4 and a 1/2 mile more on the gas mileage depending on the driving. Either way, there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[amsoilman]

This topic has probably been beat to death but I will ask it anyways. I am considering swaping my oil to synthetic due to its flow properties at sub zero temperatures among other reasons. But, I have only used the mopar brand oil for the truck and have no prior care history before december 2007. From past experience with synthetics in a couple of gasoline cars and trucks they begin to leak after the conversion. I asked my local amsoil guy (not in AK) and he stated it was due to the detergents in the synthetic oil removing the carbon "wedges" from the seals inside the engine that were effectively helping keep the engine from leaking. Is there any truth to this myth? Am going to open a can of worms by converting to synthetic on a cummins with over 80K? Any advice would give me piece of mind, thanks in advance.

I have installed the Amsoil 100% synthetic oils in many vehicles with over 80 K on them with little or no problems at all. Most of the issues concerning a switch at higher miles, has to do with how the vehicle was maintained prior to switching, as well as the quality of oils which had been used prior to the changeover.

My currednt truck (see signature) has over 80,000 miles on a single oil drain, and that was done at 8,700 miles (April-2003) when I installed the Amsoil 15W-40 HDD & Marine and a By-Pass oil filtration system. I sample at 10K intervals, and have put in 4 quarts of oil since installing. No problems what-so-ever!

If your real concerned and want to install a "synthetic", I would suggest you use a group III based "Synthetic" first, then if you have no problems, you could go to a FULL 100 % synthetic with a group IV base. If you do encounter oil usage, other than leaks, try changing out just the filter for a couple thousand miles, and see if the oil usage declines.



Wayne

 

[TCDiesel]

So you have close to 72k on current lubricant? I like amsoil, but not that much. .

 

[AKaiser]

So you have close to 72k on current lubricant? I like amsoil, but not that much. .

Yes, it's called bypass filtration and oil analysis. As far as I am concerned, dollarwise, it's probably a wash, but it has some sure fire advantages, two of them being less work to maintain (replace a filter, and top off) and you know what kind of wear the engine is undergoing, and can spot problems before they get costly. I ran Amsoil 0W30 on my old gasser, and it was so easy to change a filter. I had a dual bypass kit installed under the cab. Very little mess to it. I just used a box to catch what little oil came out. Did all this in an apartment carport.



Don't know what I'm going to do on my new Challenger yet. Pick it up tomorrow. It's a Black R/T J package. Bought for $500 over invoice at Button Dodge in Kokomo, just north of the transmission plant.



Next task is to sell my truck. :{

 

[DRyder]

O. k. reading the posts I decided to take a good look under the engine for any current oil leaks and found nothing huge but a couple of wet spots in the front of the engine by the timing gear cover, sorry if I am way off base there, and by the rear oil pan. Again nothing dripping, but enough to collect dirt and become damp. I think I am getting a consensus that the swap could create problems if problems already exist, correct? Wayne, I must agree with TWest; you are one hard core believer if you have gone that distance without a change. At what point do you think you will change the oil out, if ever?



Dave

 

[Jack in Alaska]

I switched to Rot-T synthetic on my previous 98. 5 after 90k miles. It started to use oil considerably. No leaks just burned it. Switched back to dino Rot-T and the problem stopped.

I have not tried it on my 04. 5 and probably will not.

 

[icman95]

I'm on with Wayne. I use the bypass filtration, too, and don't change my oil until the lab checks my test sample and tells me to. This process is used by some trucking companies to cut oil change intervals, and thereby, costs. There is nothing wrong with doing this so long as you test the oil every now and again. A friend of mine is an engineer for Pratt & Whitney jet engines. The group he's assigned to works with the Navy to keep up maintanence on a particular aircraft engine and this is the process they use to keep tabs on those engines. Oil analysis is a good way to check the health of the engine. By seeing what materials are in the oil, you can see which parts of the engine are wearing out before they actually cause a failure.

 

[TCDiesel]

OK... The bypass system is proven techogly, BUT 5. 9L motor holds 3 Gallons. all commercial OTR (Cat,Cummins,Det) engines are 11L to 15L and hold 11 to 15 Gallons of lube and have micro filters and the bypass system is a bit more elaborate than the one available for Dodge Cummins. The commercial haulers that I know run 60k max and service regardless of the analysis. I don't know of any off road construction companies that use the extend interval change at all. . But to run extended drain interval based on the analysis passed 60 to 50k is just too much risk IMO.

 

[amsoilman]

O. k. reading the posts I decided to take a good look under the engine for any current oil leaks and found nothing huge but a couple of wet spots in the front of the engine by the timing gear cover, sorry if I am way off base there, and by the rear oil pan. Again nothing dripping, but enough to collect dirt and become damp. I think I am getting a consensus that the swap could create problems if problems already exist, correct? Wayne, I must agree with TWest; you are one hard core believer if you have gone that distance without a change. At what point do you think you will change the oil out, if ever?



Dave

Dave,

As to possible oil leakage, some of the many points where external oil leaks may occur include: oil lines, crankcase drain plug, oil pan gasket, valve cover gaskets, oil pump gasket, fuel pump gasket, timing case cover and camshaft bearing seal. No possible source of leakage should be neglected because even a very small leak will cause extremely high oil consumption. For example, it has been estimated that a leak of one drop of oil every twenty feet is approximately equal to a loss of one quart of oil every 100 miles. The best way to check for external leaks is to road test the vehicle with a large piece of light-colored cloth tied under the engine. Oil on the cloth will indicate a leak which should be traced to its source.



As to your comment;"QUOTE"you are one hard core believer if you have gone that distance without a change. At what point do you think you will change the oil out, if ever?"END QUOTE"

I have extensive experience in the field of oil and oil analysis. My last Dodge/Cummins had over 150,000 miles with only one oil drain using the 100% Amsoil synthetic oil. As stated above, I do oil analysis at 10K intervals. The last one done at 75,800 miles on the truck and 67,100 miles on the oil indicated the oil was still in usable condition; ie, no contminants, no fuel dillution, less than 0. 5% SOOT, and the Viscosity was 14. 6 cSt@100C. which is in the middle of the SAE 40 grade oils range. 12. 5 cSt@100C Minimum, and 16. 3 cSt@100C Maximum. So why would I change out this oil? My truck now has over 80K on it at this point.



Respectfully,



Wayne

 

[amsoilman]

OK... The bypass system is proven techogly, BUT 5. 9L motor holds 3 Gallons. all commercial OTR (Cat,Cummins,Det) engines are 11L to 15L and hold 11 to 15 Gallons of lube and have micro filters and the bypass system is a bit more elaborate than the one available for Dodge Cummins. The commercial haulers that I know run 60k max and service regardless of the analysis. I don't know of any off road construction companies that use the extend interval change at all. . But to run extended drain interval based on the analysis passed 60 to 50k is just too much risk IMO.

OK... ... ... ..... , if you would beleive an oil analysis on your oil at say 10,000 miles, why would you not beleive the oil analysis at 50-60 thousand miles?

And I have seen many commercial haulers go 100K on an oil change using oil analysis.



Respecfully,





Wayne

 

[TCDiesel]

When that analysis comes with a trust fund or insured at 50 to 60K intervals than I will believe it. the properties oils have are not exempt from breakdown when exposed to a harsh working environment. The only times I have seen commercial vehicle extended to 100K are leased returns, I don't think Penske or any other leasers even extends to that Mileage.

 

[icman95]

If I remember correctly, my Amsoil dealer told me that they do put their money where their mouth is. I was told that if I follow the Amsoil plan and still have an engine failure/problem due to the oil, they will pick up the tab for repair. I'm sure that it would be a fight to get the money, but on the face of it, that's what they say. Maybe Wayne could speak to this in more depth.



My Amsoil dealer gets her inventory brought directly to her by her supplier. He comes up from Virginia with a Cummins Dodge pulling a trailer loaded with cases of supplies. I was there one day just by chance when he was delivering. He was running a dual remote system with bypass filtration and had over 200k on his current oil according to him. The truck itself had about 325k on it at the time. He was doing over 9k miles a month delivering oil. Easy to build up miles this way. I have no reason to disbelieve him. This was a few years ago, so I don't know what he's running now.

 

[amsoilman]

When that analysis comes with a trust fund or insured at 50 to 60K intervals than I will believe it. the properties oils have are not exempt from breakdown when exposed to a harsh working environment. The only times I have seen commercial vehicle extended to 100K are leased returns, I don't think Penske or any other leasers even extends to that Mileage.

I agree oils do indeed "breakdown", but the oil in my truck at 67,000 miles on it had a viscosity of 14. 6 cSt@ 100C. Which again as referenced above is in the middle of the requirements for SAE 40 grade oil! If my oil had broken down, it certainly would not have that kind of reading.

I am talking extremely high quality 100% PAO based oil with a 2 MICRON 98+% efficient by-pass filtration system, using USED oil analysis to determine oil breakdown and contamination. I wouldn't think of going 50-60,000 with regular oil/filtration and NO oil analysis! I have personally used oil by-pass systems and oil analysis since 1984 with no issues at all!



Best regards,



Wayne