Synthetic conversion problems?

[TCDiesel]

Nothing wrong with condition change interval. Now here's the scenario, two trucks with 150K. Truck #A has stock filtration with 25k Change intervals with analysis 10K, Truck B does condition changes at the request of analysis which was required at 60K. both trucks develop O-ring failure at 152K, at the 10K analysis for which truck showed higher concentrate of contaminate and which one had engine failure shortly after the analysis, in other words which engine did not need to replace main/rod bearings and which one is now nearing 800k on factory bearings.



(On note)I have amsoil products in every personnel Vehicle I own, and every Vehicle in the TWR companies.



On Edit: Truck B had the the Bypass system (Lube-Finder), Both had Series-3000 thier entire life.

 

[AKaiser]

OK... The bypass system is proven techogly, BUT 5. 9L motor holds 3 Gallons. all commercial OTR (Cat,Cummins,Det) engines are 11L to 15L and hold 11 to 15 Gallons of lube and have micro filters and the bypass system is a bit more elaborate than the one available for Dodge Cummins. The commercial haulers that I know run 60k max and service regardless of the analysis. I don't know of any off road construction companies that use the extend interval change at all. . But to run extended drain interval based on the analysis passed 60 to 50k is just too much risk IMO.

The Army doesn't think so. In fact, just the opposite. So much so that we STAKE SOLDIERS LIVES on it.

AOAP: the Army Oil Analysis Program

We don't drain the oil unless it needs to be replaced, per the AOAP.

"The AOAP is a Department of Defense (DOD) wide effort to detect impending equipment failures and determine lubricant condition through periodic analytical evaluation of oil samples. "

~Tony

 

[TCDiesel]

Is that the same dept that was slow in approving the Bullet Prove Amour? The problem with extending Pass the 50/60K is (LHM) loop hole mentality... this is a public forum and I stand on the side of caution. . what is wrong with hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. How can anyone argue that the lubes that have 60k or 1200hrs is not worth a proper burial at the local recycler were it can spent the rest of it life as high grade asphalt. .

 

[DRyder]

I am not trying to disprove or convey any disbelief in the superiority of synthetic oils, for I do know they are engineered to perform within parameters untouchable to conventional motor oils. All I was trying to prevent was making a problem, leaking oil, worse than it already is. So would it be wise to say it is worth a try, and if things go south convert back to conventional? Or once the damage is done there is no going back? Wayne, I understand now the process, but equating to dollars is it beneficial compared to conventional? Just by looking at WalMart shelves I can see a comparable price difference; I can only imagine how much your product runs including the additional filtration system and filters. You definitely have me interested so I will start putting my head in the books.



Dave

 

[AKaiser]

Is that the same dept that was slow in approving the Bullet Prove Amour? The problem with extending Pass the 50/60K is (LHM) loop hole mentality... this is a public forum and I stand on the side of caution. . what is wrong with hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. How can anyone argue that the lubes that have 60k or 1200hrs is not worth a proper burial at the local recycler were it can spent the rest of it life as high grade asphalt. .

So you take one bad decision and paint the whole organization with it. We have learned from our mistakes. In fact, we have an organization dedicated to it called CALL: the Center for Army Lessons Learned.

Actually, it would best be served to be filtered and re-manufactured as engine oil or other lubricants, especially if it was a synthetic base oil.

 

[TCDiesel]

So you take one bad decision and paint the whole organization with it. We have learned from our mistakes. In fact, we have an organization dedicated to it called CALL: the Center for Army Lessons Learned.



Actually, it would best be served to be filtered and re-manufactured as engine oil or other lubricants, especially if it was a synthetic base oil.

That's even Better. If it can be Done?

 

[steved]

That's even Better. If it can be Done?

They sell recycled oil everyday...

 

[TCDiesel]

I have Not seen any labels on containers that are filled with Lubricants that claim to be recycle oil, or did miss AKaiser thought.

 

[steved]

Trust me, they exist...



Most often, drain oils are simply dumped into a crude unit and reprocessed... but there are true recycled oils out there.

 

[DPKetchum]

I've swapped over several vehicles including a 93W250 12 valve,2000 Gran Marquis 4. 6,Chevy Caprice 305,Nissan Maxima 2. 4 inline 6 with over 80k to Amsoil oils. Never a issue and in fact cut the oil consumption by 50% in the Chevy . If they used a qt in 2000 miles it went to 4000 miles. The flash point on better oils is a lot higher then standard oils. Three of these vehicles I ran a total of 250k after swapping over at 80k and 90k with no leaks and no issues oher then longer between oil usage,better starting and two of them(305 Chevy,4. 6 Ford, I changed oil and filter every 20 to 25k with no oil analysis with great results. Very little leakdown in cyls ,ran excellent etc. A total change over to Amsoil,trans,diff,oil in the Marquis was the only one that showed a solid 1 plus mpg improvement. Wife's car and she was like WOW it made a differance,never would have thought. I like REAL synthetics not the ones that only get by using the word synthetic.

 

[DPalmquist]

I run 20% syn. 80% dino works good for me

 

[steved]

I, for one, have seen leaks associated with changing to synthetics... I changed to a synthetic at 105k in my Subaru Outback and within 5k had five seals leaking on the front of the engine (four cam seals and the crank seal). I had the seals replaced when the timing belt was replaced and things have been fine for 15k.



It depends a lot on the TYPE of synthetic... in my case it was a PAO that caused my trouble (known to cause leaks). But on the other hand, I had around 150k when I switched to a PAO in the truck, and not one drip.

 

[amsoilman]

There is NO OIL that causes leaks! The only thing that causes seals to leak is BAD SEALS,caused by poor design or defective ,material



Why would an oil Company produce oils that make seals leak? That doesn't make a lot of sence to me.

 

[DPKetchum]

Thank you Amsoilman. Those front timing belt cars most ALL sooner or later leak from front seals.

 

[DonFitzwater]

There is NO OIL that causes leaks! The only thing that causes seals to leak is BAD SEALS,caused by poor design or defective ,material



Why would an oil Company produce oils that make seals leak? That doesn't make a lot of sence to me.

The one thing that you all forget is aged, conditioned seals. Most WILL leak if you swap to synthetic. Some not but the experience I have has been leakage.

 

[steved]

Thank you Amsoilman. Those front timing belt cars most ALL sooner or later leak from front seals.

Hmm, 110k before it leaked and my MIGHTY CUMMINS leaked at the front main seal before 25k... so much for that idea.



Why the oil might not directly cause the leak, the leak would possibly never happen if the OIL didn't clean the deposits. Therefore, the OIL causes the leak.

 

[DPKetchum]

I just know I've handled t/belts and soaked timing covers on many Nissans,Toyota's,Subaru's. Buick 3. 8s and such. Hundreds if not into the thousands since mid 80s when they got popular. I don't buy the oil be it synthetic or other causes it. I've seen lots of these engines SLUDGED badly and do a desludge with no warranty. Pull oil pan and valve covers and scrap,clean,flush and have to send the oil pickups out to be cleaned(once the GOOD carb soak that would eat the skin off a elephant disappeared)One NASTY job. Some of these had NO oil leaks in front seals and never got them afterwards. I think its just a luck of the draw and design. I've swapped over several high mileage cars to Amsoil with nothing ozzing or leaking anywhere. Couple of them previous owners were NOT kind to them. One was a 100 plus thousand mile Dodge van with 318 and a sludge motor. I pulled intake,valve covers and filled oil pan with diesl fuel nd parts cleaner to de sludge. Drove it another 150k with Amsoil full synthetic and no front or rear main leaks or pan. In fact I never was concerned about oil causing leaks. I was more worried about all the carb/brake and parts cleaner used to clean these sludge motors. Boy OLD memory's. Nissan V6 Maxima's with sludge so thick once oil pan and valve covers removed and having sat all night like that the sludge would start getting kinda liquid and dripping like melting candle wax. Techs HATED cleaning them. Good tickets with NO WARRANTY. Never had ONE fail anytime after that I can remember. Tough motors.

 

[amsoilman]

Hmm, 110k before it leaked and my MIGHTY CUMMINS leaked at the front main seal before 25k... so much for that idea.



Why the oil might not directly cause the leak, the leak would possibly never happen if the OIL didn't clean the deposits. Therefore, the OIL causes the leak.

I guess all oils must cause leaks, as every parking lot I park in has oil residue on the ground where vehicles have parked. Now I don't know, but perhaps the vehicles that caused all the oil residue in the parking lots may have been changed over to synthetics.

I still stand behind the facts, that Synthetics DO NOT cause oil leaks. Yes a good high quality Synthetic (PAO based) will clean out a "false" seal created by sludge & gunk.



Wayne

amsoilmanm

 

[DonFitzwater]

Spoken like a true salesman. You should sell eskimos refrigerators!!!:-laf

 

[AKaiser]

Actually, the moral of the story is if you're going to change to syn, it's safest if done immediately after break-in. Otherwise, you do run some variable degree of risk of leaks due to issues surrounding seals and rings.