Boys, here is the email thread with Kent today. I don't believe he would mind my sharing this with you.
Hi Kent. Diesel Dan happy with Bilsteins on TDR! You and I have talked about my Rickson/245 Michelins and 4000lb camper on SRW Dodge 600 4x4. Are you still happy with that solution (Bilsteins) to the brutal ride the heavy wheels can give the truck in washboards and highway bumps?
If I pursue the Bilsteins with you would I be able to drop back to a lighter wheel and tire (17" Toyo at 3700 lbs per tire) without adjustment to the system? I am avoiding wide tires. Also, losing my overloads are a little scary given my loads. Comments on that?
Lastly, sway is big issue with the camper. I am avoiding a sway bar as it roughens the ride. My 02 came with sway bar. Have not mounted camper yet as building aluminum flatbed. Will sway bar addition be good for package?
There you have it. Pretty ready to go here.
George
George,
I really feel that the Bilsteins are the best solution for you. We're using what's called a "digressive" piston with our special valving. The digressive piston holds the truck really steady for towing control, anti-sway, and brake dive, but we designed them to quickly "blow-off" their compression resistance when shock shaft speed reaches a certain point, so they feel really supple over small street-type bumps. For street and for known problem situations (heavy truck + steel sidewalls) they're the best it can get. We don't adjust the Bilstein system. We designed the valving to work best with these trucks, but we don't tune these. Switching tires won't matter.
You're right - anti-sway bars do roughen the ride but in your case they may be necessary, depending on your weight and CG.
As for the mini-paks, I would just do things one step at a time. Do the suspension and test. It may be that it is just right without messing with the rear. If that's the case, then you won't need the mini paks - just experiment. Doesn't hurt anything and the scientific method is always best - saves time in the long run.
-Kent
Thanks for quick follow-up Kent. I have digested the TDR thread. In recommending the Bilsteins for my possibly heavy tire/wheel combo and heavy truck for smooth highway (nice!) is it also the best for flying up the Alcan and back roads of BC and Montana? Crawling boulder strewn roads into elk camp for three hours with the camper in eastern WA? Most of driving is paved, gravel and gravel with washboards. George
George,
I don't know if it will make your ride smooth. I'm not building your truck, so I don't know how it will be. Shocks and springs are not the only suspension on your truck. I can guaranty that your ride will be the best it can be. I don't have the time to discuss the commercial tire issue, nor do I want to be negative about another company's product. If I were building your truck, for your purposes, and I were using commercial tires, I would use our Bilstein system.
Kent
Kent,
(1) If I used the Toyo would there be a different recommendation for my purposes? (2) Are we leaving the stock front springs in so when the load is on the truck it is level?
George
George,
Our phone system is down right now, otherwise I would call you.
Same suspension recommendation, different ride quality and off-road performance.
We use our spring because your truck needs more travel in front.
Kent
Kent,
With front raised up 2. 5 inches does the back sag with a load? I don't believe in airbags so will I have to add leafs to level the truck? George
George,
I don't believe in airbags either! They're just like Dracula - I just don't believe! hahah! Just kidding around - it's been a long day - trying to solve this darn phone problem. Needed a little suspension humor to loosen up...
We won't know how your truck will sit until we actually install everything and you get your final wet weight.
Like I said, I would love to sell you everything we have right away - you know, that's how I pay the mortgage and all, but I really feel we should do the front coils and four shocks, then see how she sits and, most importantly, how she rides. We have lots of ways of spacing things out if we don't get just the right height/wheel travel. We can always add smaller leaves that don't make it stiffer, but, unlike lift blocks, prevent axle wrap - we can use the little spacer from on top of your leaf packs to get a bit more height if we need it. It's all about the tuning. I'm here to tell you that these trucks are all just a hair different and we can help you out a lot with tuning yours to be as good as it can be with your loads and your requirements, but just keep in mind, like all things that are good, there's no ready-made, perfect formula that will apply to everyone at all times. Reread some of the emails and look at what you're demanding from your truck - from non-standard commercial tires to serious off-road to heavy, constant loads and adverse environments. It's quite a lot! And we think that's great and that's exactly what we're here for.
Try to think of suspension as procedural instead of an immediate solution. If you call Skkyjacker or Superlift, they're just going to tell you that what they have will work great no matter what your requirements are - and you know darn well that their product won't even come close to doing what you want. We're trying to do something completely different. We're trying to deal with the average customer as if he or she were a pro racer - custom tuning - something special in this market because it's not usually done. Racers are all used to it - they speak in terms of rebound, compression and shaft speed, bump, droop and inch/pounds - the average consumer doesn't do this, but we're trying to bring that level of understanding to the performance aftermarket in order to simply change the way everyone does stuff. I think people are tired of putting junk on their nice, expensive trucks and the success of T. Rex reflects that shift.
What if you just bolt on the suspension then go test and you find that wow, the truck feels just fine with the rear the way it is? Wouldn't that be great? You just need to get this beast together and test - one step at a time. That's how we've always done everything - empirical data gathering - it's a pain, but it works. If you make more than one change at once, you just don't know what's generating the result.
I guess the purpose of this very long email is simply to suggest to you that we are going to tailor this system to your needs one step at a time and that we're here to help for the long run with whatever trick parts are required, not just until you give us your Visa number and Andy, our UPS guy picks up your stuff. Ask any of our customers about how we do things and they'll all concur. It's bolt-on, but it's really custom - so we need to take one step at a time.
The very first thing you need to do is determine exactly what you want from your truck. I feel that you're a little uncertain about the wheel/tire and where you're going to be using this beast. I feel its future is a little vague, so we should make that somewhat more concrete if possible. If you're using commercial tires, I don't care what load is in back or terrain you're on - the Bilsteins, by virtue of the digressive piston, will work better than anything on the planet. If you're using a normal, sturdy off-road tire and you're going to cover a lot of distance on wide, long, gravel washboard roads - such as Baja, there is nothing better than a huge 2. 5" Fox or King racing shock and a linear piston. You want to drive off pavement to Alaska at 60mph and sip your coffee? You need Fox shocks on that thing. You want to drive to Cabo San Lucas, off-road from Ensenada? You need Fox shocks. You want a plush road ride, great control, smooth washboard sub 30mph and great manners crawling over rocky uphills on a hunting trail? You need Bilsteins. If you change tires and wheels one day, the Bilsteins are still just fantastic, so you can't lose. I think the Bilstein system is right for you, but only you know what you're really going to be doing most often. The leaf/ride height issue we'll work out as we go. We have many tools at our disposal.
Cheers,
Kent
So boys, it appears that the Fox's are for fast back roads with lighter tires (both like lighter tires) but the Bilstein gives a nice highway and can handle a heavier tire better. I bet if I buy the Bilsteins and later use the Fox's, a fine TDR member would be glad to take those Bilsteins off my hands. George
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