TAG-II from Diesel Power Products

[KEarnest]

I was recently asked by Dave Meheen, owner of Diesel Power Products, to try a new version of the TAG called the TAG-II. First, let me preface this by saying that I have had excellent results with the TAG in my PDR40 so I jumped at the chance to try the TAG-II.



The TAG-II is basically the usage of 2 TAG units spaced some distance apart in a tube. This particular unit has the TAGs spaced approximately 4 inches apart. Bear in mind that this is a prototypical unit such that the final dimensions, look and feel of the production unit have not been determined.



Here are some pictures of the TAG-II.



This first picture shows the TAG tube which has the honeycomb material pressed into one end, and a production TAG unit which is placed in the other end of the tube which will be the closest to the compressor wheel.



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This next picture shows the other end of the tube which has been machined to accept a production TAG unit.



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These next two pics show how the production TAG is placed within the tube.



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This next shot shows how the TAG-II is placed within the air inlet tube



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This show shows the TAG-II firmly seated in the air inlet tube



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Lastly, gently guide the air inlet tube and TAG-II into the compressor inlet



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so far, I have experienced excellent results with the TAG-II. There is an awesome performance increase between a single TAG and the TAG-II. Most notably is increased spool-up which is now amazingly similar to a stock HX35W12 turbo, especially in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears on my 5sp truck. Fuel mileage has been excellent at 19mpg on winter fuel. I will be towing a 24ft deckover gooseneck trailer this Saturday and will post the results from the 400+ mile trip.



You can see larger 800x600 photos in my Reader's Rigs gallery. More info is available at Diesel Power Products

 

[Car_nut57]

TAG-II

Kent,



Thanks for sharing the great pictures of the prototype TAG-II you are testing. We are working to continue to develop the TAG-II for the 1994-2002 Dodge Cummins trucks and I am sure we will be making some changes before we begin production. Also any test data you can provide for us is greatly appreciated.

 

[Benson]

Will these work in a 3rd gen truck? How about with a torque tube on a 3rd gen?

 

[TBrennan]

What you need to make is an integrated "torque tube" and TAG II. That way we can mount an AFE filter, have a smooth mandrel bent intake tube and have the TAG also.

 

[dsherman]

RE:Tag II

Car_nut57,



Do you need another test truckOo. Oo.





I help dyno the tag and we found that it gave 5 HP higher on the low end side. we used a mustang dyno @ AFE.

David

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Dave and I talked about this when I stopped by there last Friday to BS with Yogibear. Because the width of the Tag-II causes the air tube to shift away from the turbo there isn't adequate distance between it and the oil filter. That's not a problem on the 2nd Gen trucks due to the turbo being mounted up higher.



Maybe with modification to the air tube or an aftermarket one, a Tag-II could be made to work, but I'm pretty sure it won't fit with the Torque Tube either.



Kent thanks for posting your experience with the Tag-II; I'm looking forward to your trip report!

 

[rweis]

Think the TAG II will fit with the B1 turbo? It is an inch longer in length from the exhause manifold mounting.



I would be glad to test fit it for you.



Remember you shortened my B1 inlet about 1/4" and I have the production TAG in the OEM air duct.



Bob Weis



Scotty II air filter, cowl opening cut.

 

[Car_nut57]

Originally posted by Benson

Will these work in a 3rd gen truck? How about with a torque tube on a 3rd gen?

3rd gen trucks pose some real challenges for integrating the TAG-II concept. The turbo is mounted lower and the inlet to the turbo is much closer to the oil filter which does not leave enough physical space for the TAG-II. We are working on this as the 3rd gen trucks should see noticeable improvements with the TAG-II, but significant changes will need to be made to accommodate it, such as oil filter relocation and air intake alterations.

 

[Car_nut57]

Originally posted by TBrennan

What you need to make is an integrated "torque tube" and TAG II. That way we can mount an AFE filter, have a smooth mandrel bent intake tube and have the TAG also.

That may be exactly what is necessary for the 3rd gen trucks as I mentioned to Benson, we have some challenges ahead to make the TAG-II fit.

 

[Car_nut57]

Originally posted by rweis

Think the TAG II will fit with the B1 turbo? It is an inch longer in length from the exhause manifold mounting.



I would be glad to test fit it for you.



Remember you shortened my B1 inlet about 1/4" and I have the production TAG in the OEM air duct.



Bob Weis



Scotty II air filter, cowl opening cut.

Bob we are working on many applications for the TAG-II currently and I do think we will be able to come up with a configuration to fit your application only it will be awhile. Kent currently has the only test part of the TAG-II concept for the Dodge, so we will all have to rely on him for information until we can get some more work done on the TAG-II.

 

[KEarnest]

OK, I'm back from my towing trip and have more TAG-II results to post.



This past Saturday, me and my twin brother drove 201 miles (each way) into Virginia up I-81 to meet Joel Williams (Dieseldude4x4 on the DTR) to pick up a tractor that my brother bought from him. The gooseneck trailer in tow is a 24' Delta deckover that weighs in at 4100lbs. The tractor weighs 8000lbs.



On the trip up with the trailer unloaded, I calculated 16. 8 mpg. Other data I collected for max temps and boost with the unloaded trailer was 950° EGT's, 20psi boost, rear diff temp 150°, 5sp transmission temp 125°, engine oil temp 200°, engine coolant temp stayed dead-on 180°. Ambient temp for the trip ranged from 55°-60°. Speeds for the trip ranged from 60-65mph. The highway is fairly hilly with some nice long grades and elevation changes.



On the way home with the tractor and trailer (12K lbs) , I calculated 14. 6 mpg. Other data I collected for max temps and boost with the loaded trailer was 1150° EGT's, 22psi boost, rear diff temp 175°, 5sp transmission temp just barely past 150°, engine oil temp 215°, engine coolant temp maxed out just barely under the 190° mark. I was in and out of overdrive (5th) quite a bit more on the trip home.



All drivetrain fluids are sythetic, except for the Rotella T in the engine, and I have a 180° T-Stat. Turbo whine is virtually non-existent, even at 22psi boost.



Pretty impressive numbers for the fueling mods that I have. I used to have a RAM 2500 V10 4x4 and never got close to 14mpg unloaded, usually 10. 5mpg for the gasser V10.



Here's a couple of pics from the trip.



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[Jeremiah]

TAG I v. TAG II

Originally posted by Car_nut57

3rd gen trucks pose some real challenges for integrating the TAG-II concept. The turbo is mounted lower and the inlet to the turbo is much closer to the oil filter which does not leave enough physical space for the TAG-II. We are working on this as the 3rd gen trucks should see noticeable improvements with the TAG-II, but significant changes will need to be made to accommodate it, such as oil filter relocation and air intake alterations.

To tell the truth, I can't say TAG ONE made any difference in the performance of my 03 HO 6-spd. No change in sound, power, MPGs, etc. I got 20. 3 mpgs before installation and 20. 3 after.



But to be up front I must also say the stock truck wasn't dyno'd before installation and neither were gauges in place, so I can't specifically say there was absolutely no improvement. It's always possible there was an incremental boost and I wouldn't know it.



Regardless, I don't think I'll be rushing to buy the TAG II when it comes out.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Jeremiah have you tried taking it back out? I didn't think my TAG made that much of a difference when I put it in originally, but after running it awhile and then taking it out, I sure could tell it was not in there. Truck ran like it had a clogged air filter. . . less responsive and slower to spool.



Vaughn

 

[Jeremiah]

Good point ...

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

Jeremiah have you tried taking it back out? I didn't think my TAG made that much of a difference when I put it in originally, but after running it awhile and then taking it out, I sure could tell it was not in there. Truck ran like it had a clogged air filter. . . less responsive and slower to spool.



Vaughn

You know, that's worth a try! Robert/Robin say my gauges are on the way and will be here in a week. I'll wait until they arrive and do a pre- and post-test. That should tell the tale.



Different topic: I read your post in the TDR mag about driver's door noise. I've been noticing noise in my door the last couple of months. I think I'll do what you did and see if I can fix it myself!



That was a good post, kind sir!

 

[Ramafid]

I tried the TAG also and wasn't really impressed. I was trying to make it work in a Dodgezilla turbo with silencer ring which was giving me fits. I had to remove the snap ring and leave just the silencer ring in to make the TAG fit. Didn't much like this idea and not seeing much benefit took it out. I did notice a 2lb boost drop at full throttle. Went from 32lbs to 30lbs. Wasn't sure if this was a bad or good thing. Mileage seemed to stay the same.



Anthony

 

[Jeremiah]

Simply amazing

Originally posted by Ramafid

I tried the TAG also and wasn't really impressed. I was trying to make it work in a Dodgezilla turbo with silencer ring which was giving me fits. I had to remove the snap ring and leave just the silencer ring in to make the TAG fit. Didn't much like this idea and not seeing much benefit took it out. I did notice a 2lb boost drop at full throttle. Went from 32lbs to 30lbs. Wasn't sure if this was a bad or good thing. Mileage seemed to stay the same.



Anthony

Amazin' how we go for these toys. Somethin' new comes along and we're like a flock of birds flyin' from one tree to the other. But it's good for the economy, I guess.



Someone else noticed a post-TAG drop in boost. More air, maybe? Seems like more air at WOT should yield more - not less - boost. Doesn't make sense to my feeble mind.



I'll still try it out both ways after the gauges are in and see what I get with my truck. That's why Vaughn suggested the pre- and post- test, which you've already done.

 

[KEarnest]

Jeremiah,



check out this thread https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96788



it may help clear up some questions on the TAG vs Boost Pressure issue. I can still hit 24psi boost with or without the TAG or TAG-II at WOT, but under less than WOT conditions, I notice lower boost pressures and cooler EGT's while on the flats and pulling the hills.



I guess there is no real way to compare a 2nd gen truck with a PDR40 turbo against a 3rd gen truck with HY35 on a product such as the TAG due to the different air flow of the turbos, head, exhaust, etc...



but when I take out the TAG or TAG-II, I can really tell a big difference in the truck's performance, almost like the truck is "sickly"

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by KEarnest

Jeremiah,



check out this thread https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96788



it may help clear up some questions on the TAG vs Boost Pressure issue. I can still hit 24psi boost with or without the TAG or TAG-II at WOT, but under less than WOT conditions, I notice lower boost pressures and cooler EGT's while on the flats and pulling the hills.



I guess there is no real way to compare a 2nd gen truck with a PDR40 turbo against a 3rd gen truck with HY35 on a product such as the TAG due to the different air flow of the turbos, head, exhaust, etc...



but when I take out the TAG or TAG-II, I can really tell a big difference in the truck's performance, almost like the truck is "sickly"

I really appreciate that link, and IMO, Kev's test pretty well says it all. It certainly confirmed what my suspicions that the benefit is slight and perhaps even limited to a change in sound.



But like you, I'll probably leave it in until I switch turbos or something. Thanks much for the post!

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Originally posted by Jeremiah



Different topic: I read your post in the TDR mag about driver's door noise. I've been noticing noise in my door the last couple of months. I think I'll do what you did and see if I can fix it myself!



That was a good post, kind sir!

Well thankyou Jeremiah When I originally posted that thread I only got 2 half-hearted responses and I was like "OK, well I guess no one else has this problem" So I was a bit surprised it made it in the magazine

 

[R.ebel]

Dragging this thread to the top... . is the Tag II availible yet?