Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Take your plate out!!!!!!!

[Chipstien]

I thought that was what the majority of folks were trying to say.

 

[Brayden]

Boy I'm glad I found this thread. . A buddy was trying to convince me to take my plate out. I knew it's in there for a reason.



TTT for the great info!!



Did anyone ever figure out what actually happens as far as advance with RPM, under load I guess? Unloaded on the governor would be using the low idle base timing as I understood/misunderstood it.

 

[TxDieselKid]

holy smokes, havn't seen this thread in ages, what ever happen to CC?

 

[Sled Puller]

It is fine, running no plate.



It works best, with the tips ground off the injectors, and the delivery valves removed.



You need proper timing to run well, though.

 

[TPCDrafting]

CC got the boot and I thought this thread was locked down, there I go thoughting again.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Mine still runs better without a plate..... although the bucking is reduced quite a bit with a plate.



Now, I keep one in there just to keep Joe happy. :-laf



Matt

 

[illflem]

Originally posted by TPCDrafting

CC got the boot and I thought this thread was locked down, there I go thoughting again.

No, he left on his own after receiving much harassment from the members here when he started blaming his damaged injection pump problems on a transmission vendor. That thread was more entertaining than this one and was probably the one you're thinking got locked down.

I ran into a guy vacationing in Montana that lived across the street from CC, said he didn't think CC's truck ever ran, said it was always in the driveway with the hood up, trail of oil running down the to the gutter.

 

[Brayden]

I'm gonna drive my rig every day, so I think I'll keep the plate in it. There was a very good explanation of what the plate does, as far as towing is concerned a couple pages back.



Does anybody know about the advance thing? Do we actually get an advance on the 913 if it's turned up? I'm gonna run about 500cc of fuel, is that enough to get into the advance?



Thanks,



Brayden

 

[Bob Wagner]

Originally posted by TxDieselKid

holy smokes, havn't seen this thread in ages, what ever happen to CC?

I will shoot an email off to chris this morning, I will see how lifes been for him lately

 

[Brayden]

This is it. . This guy seems to know what the fuel plate is actually for. So it seems that for a sled puller the plate would be advantageous, no?

Originally posted by drees1

Our governor will hold speed in relation to set position as a tractor governor will. I have wired my cruise control system to pull and hold the the throttle lever, using the existing cruise control hardware. I have disconnected nothing. I have full function of the cruise control. The existing vacuum pot driving the cruise will hold the engine at a set idle speed anywhere from low idle to high idle, and it will control speed on the road but not as well due to the designed droop in the governor. The old Ford 6. 9 and 7. 3 with the Stanadyne DB2 pump was not a full range governor and you cannot hold speed with constant throttle position. There are 2 ways to verify your governor type. 1 try holding it at half throttle and see if you makehalf speed, or about 2000 rpm. 2. Especially with manual trans (no slippage) accelerate slowly, you will notice that you must gradually and uniformily depress the pedal as speed increases. More pedal, more speed.



Droop is required in every governor to maintain stability. Zero droop would mean a request for full fuel with only a drop of 1 rpm from the set point. The engine would overshoot and then the governor would request zero fuel. the result is the engine will hopelessly hunt up and down. Droop stabilizes the governor and speed of the engine. When the speed climbs close to the set point the fuel is reduced gradually so as not to overshoot, same if speed is dropping towards a set point, then fuel is gradually added as the set point is approached. Why mention this? Because of droop, there is some vagueness to the feel of the pedal and response of the engine. A lot of droop will start to feel like it is not full range governed.



The cruise control of any vehicle is a road speed governor, and road speed will vary slightly over hills due to droop in the cruise control. some more than others.



We defeat the droop at top end with the governor spring kits, or, more accurately take it above the operating point so it is out of the picture.



There are several reasons why we de fuel at higher speeds. The fuel plate will influence rack position as a function of rpm, most plates defueling at higher speeds. The AFC will defuel with lower boost. And the governor will defuel as it approaches the high idle set point due to droop.



The B5. 9 is rated to 56,000 lb gross vehicle weight in comercial use on hiway. The fuel plate allows tailoring of the HP and torque curves to give us the towability that the engine is famous for. In heavy duty applications increasing torque and even increasing HP as rpm drops, is what allows us to top hills heavily loaded without down shifting or loosing much speed. That is precisely why the plate is needed to add fuel at decreasing rpms. When you use this engine to it's limit towing, those plates are necessary for drivability and economy. For hot rodding empty with short spurts empty, and racing, none of that is important. Only in heavy towing will the engines power be used continously, and then the plates help set some limits that are reasonable to get the long life.



That is why the #11 plate is so good towing. It adds a mountain of fuel (torque) as speed drops and lets us pull grades without dropping speed much or downshifting. It also is reasonable in power produced so as not to decrease the engine life substantially under heavy constant use. Engines with peak torque low in the rpm band and decreasing torque with increasing rpm from the peak are the best towing engines.



I guess I am only making a case for why most of us should leave the plate in, and use a plate that matches our use of the vehicle.



Doug Rees

 

[wsmalley]

Running plateless, along with most of my 12ver friends in this area. No Problems from any of our pumps in the last couple years (also known as EVER). One regularly towed almost 20k pounds, another pulls a lawn trailer daily, I tow my parent's 9k camper every now and then. I still average 17mpg in a normal week of driving, best of 22. 3 running empty 70mph. Towing I typically get about 13mpg running 65. Never have smoke problems unless I make it, just roll into the power instead of stomping it.



Plates are good for lower/mid power levels, but if you want high power, no plate is the way to go.



And by the way, it IS the plug at the front of the pump that stops the rack. If that is not the case, why does backing it out on washers(shimming) typically net 30+ increase in wheel HP??

 

[kiwi bird]

Yeah, my truck don't need no stinkin plate. :-{}

 

[ramman]

rack travel

Good discussion all be it over my head but how does one measure the rack travel and how does the plate setting affect the total rack travel ??? Tim

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Brayden

. So it seems that for a sled puller the plate would be advantageous, no?

Plates, governors, all they do is cut fuel back. Wide open, at big rpm, never ever cut the fuel back, rock and roll. Hope it lives for 12 seconds.

Plates are for sissy street trucks, and haulers, to get our carnage home again.



LMAO!



I would like to see ONE picture of damage caused by running no plate.

Don't show me burnt pistons, that is a foot problem.

 

[MCummings]

Originally posted by Sled Puller

... cut fuel back...



Don't show me burnt pistons, that is a foot problem.

:-laf :-laf



Cut fuel back? What's that? Sounds bad.



I've got a foot problem, is that why my EGT's are high ?



I took a plate out from a friends '97 215 and his Mileage dropped considerably, but his Power is WAYYY up, and he likes that,, a #10 is going in soon.



Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[Mtngoat]

This is a favorite thread for me. It was the first thread I looked at when I first found the TDR, and didnt even own a truck. . I didnt have a clue about what you were talking about but was hooked anyway! To be honest still dont know but what the heck, it was entertaining and I learned something! And the transmission wars, they were fun, sorry kind of, to see them go. .



Robin

 

[rjones]

OOOOOOOHHHHHHH NOOOOOOO NOT AGAIN:-{}

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Piers



WOW, this plateless thread is still going on Cummins Corvette are you going to Muncie? Tell you what, lets race, you without your worthless cam plate & I'll leave mine in, according to your findings, you should have way more power than me, cause I still run with a cam plate. I'll even give you a heads up on what engine mods I have so you will know what you're up against.



One from my little Canadian buddy, I think he's over that power level now!



Jim

 

[CumminFast]

Sled Puller:

Does Dave Mitchell or Dan Schied have a cam plate in their trucks?



To me, it seems these guys are pushing the hp limits rather than Joe D. I am plateless for 40k, and I have a modified plug on the end of my pump that changed my dyno numbers from 547 to 613. Oh and my timing accomodates my lack of cam plate.

 

[rjones]

This thread is getting old... ... ... can someone please delete it?