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Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Take your plate out!!!!!!!

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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Serviced my 2001 auto feels great

Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Too much boost?

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I've discussed this with several people in PM's but I never felt it was a good idea to discuss it on the open forum without all the disclaimers.



As the rack travels further, we are simply injecting a larger volume of fuel through the the same restrictions and starting injections at the same time. So what does this mean? You are just making the injection process longer.



With small injectors, (370's and less) you'll be injecting fuel most of the way down the power stroke. The fuel injected at the end of the stroke doesn't have time to burn before the exhaust valve opens. So you'll have severe popping and backfiring under maximum fueling and higher rpm (2900+ depending on your

timing). Advancing the timing will delay this because the entire injection cycle is moved earlier and you can accelerate 100-200 more rpm per 4-5° of timing advance before the popping begins.



Fuel injected so late in the power stroke doesn't make more power either. It causes tons more smoke, super high EGT (1700+) and a poor running engine at high rpm.



Also the pressures on the plungers and barrels are increased as they now have to compress a larger volume of fuel into the same space. They will wear out quicker under the extreme pressures.



My personal pump (913) is only 8 months old and was ran without a plate for most of its life. When I took it to the pump shop to have it spec'd one barrel was much weaker than the others and it cost me 200 cc's to balance the rest of the cylinders to the weak one.



Is that a result of pushing so much fuel for so long? The world may never know.



I agree that the rocker can't move far enough forward to get into the spinning governor and tear itself up, but there are many other reasons that a little (note the word little) fuel management is necessary.



-Chris
 
Re: DITTO to Got Smoke?

Originally posted by FATCAT

Yeah like Got Smoke said, if any of youes don't want your #11 plate, I'll pay postage for it to be mailed to me. :D



I'm looking for a #11 plate, so don't go throwing that old #11 plate in the scrap metal bin at the town dump.



Me too. I'll give you postage and $5.
 
so is running a #0 plate the same as no plate at all. Some people have said that a #0 plate just makes sure it stops the rack and makes sure it doesn't hit the pin. is this true??
 
The pin Bosch # 2413201003 stops the rack, not the end plug. too much travel without the pin could jam the rack/plunger sleeves.



Zero plate is a real plate and depending on where you set it, controls rack travel safely. I found that less than 21 mm gave more power.



New plates are not so expensive these days. 150 vs. 1000 to fix the pump after you break that pin you don't believe exists.

Why do you dare me? :mad: Why demand answers, and then call me a liar in one way or another when I answer. :confused: Those who know me realize I don't recommend things that I have found not to work.
 
some lessons are just learned the hard way :D



i try to learn from other peoples' lessons, its not so expensive for me :D
 
I think I would feel a little more comfortable grinding the heck out my old stock plate to turn it into a pin-saver. :)



Anybody want to post a picture of a 0 plate so I can begin the destruction?
 
You can actually hear what Chris (Strick-9) is talking about when the pump is working very hard and the engine isn't burning the fuel efficiently in the upper RPMs... .



It sounds like knock/pre-ignition in a gasser... .

I hate that sound... . so I lift my foot off the #2 pedal when it happens. Advancing the timing to 16. 5° helped out the popping heard through the exhaust... . but it did not reduce the loads on the pump or the nasty sound it makes when trying to push all that fuel through stock parts.



The research by all the plate makers isn't wasted... . it's very useful for those who can't be bothered to lift when they *should*... and for those who want to avoid increased wear on pretty much everything that moves in the truck. Any increase in power has it's downsides... . and this free power comes with a big potential pricetag if anything decides to let go from being pushed well beyond it's original design parameters.



These are risks I am willing to make... .



As for mileage:

My mileage without the plate has never been below 17mpg... and I have seen a high of 21. 5mpg on an all-highway trip..... all miles unloaded.



Matt



P. S. I applaude the TDR membership for keeping this thread somewhat free of flames..... a lot of good information has been discussed so far... lets keep it up!
 
I just now looked again at the inside of my pump and the pin that conects the rack to the rest of the govenor does not hit anything in my '96 180hp pump. I can't seem to make anything jam either. As far as too much fuel too late the EGT gauge and smoke out the tail pipe will let me know that so I am comfortable with no plate but it is not for everyone.

Treven.
 
T Baker,

The pin that you are describing is not the one Joe is referring to.



The pin you are looking at is just for the shutoff solenoid to push the rack back to shut off the motor, I believe. I'm doing this from memory so I may be a little off.



The pin Joe talks of rides in a slot in the rack. You can't see it from the AFC housing hole.



-Chris
 
Chris I see two pins; one contacts the fuel shut off arm and is almost a 1/4" in diameter the other is in the end of the fuel rack and is more like 1/16 to 3/32" in diameter. I assume he is talking about the small pin that is in back end of the rack. Either way they dont touch anything exept for the shut off arm when it is activated. I still don't see any way for them to be sheared. I'm still looking though.

Treven.
 
one thing to heed, which none of you have--is the work Strick9 had to do on his pump--sounds like a bad idea to run without the plate on that account and then double that with what Joe D. said---go ahead a tempt the pump gods if you want you'll just be sending your hard earned dollars somewhere to buy a new pump---I know to some guys it won't matter but to a lot of guys it will---I just heard about a pump that went belly up after about a year of running with no plate----chris
 
sounds like these words could cost you $1000



"no plate (and it's stayin that way because no, it CANNOT hurt the pump in any way)"
 
I have seen a pump that ran with out the plate for four years before breaking the pin. It wasn't pretty inside and when it happened it wouldn't throttle down or shut off. The engine wasn't damaged but the pump was total loss(more than $1000). A plate is staying in my pump!!! Thanks JOE!!!!!
 
The funny thing about Chris's problem was it was only one plunger. If it were due to overfueling wouldn't it have affected all of them evenly? The other thing is just because you have no plate dosen't mean you run at full fuel all the time. You might not ever touch full throttle. I was thinking about putting in an adjustable throttle stop.

Treven.
 
Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly

The pin Bosch # 2413201003 stops the rack, not the end plug.






I will say this: In the 180 hp 911 pump I took apart, this is NOT... . TRUE. The rack is stopped by the end cap. I can prove this easily. Take your afc and plate out. Then note where the rack stops. Now put a wrench inbetween the gear housing and the front of the pump and back the stop plug out. Now look at where the rack stops and tell me I am wrong.
 
I think this is funny! I understand and admire people who systematically push the leading edge. I also get a chuckle out of people that just jump over it. :-laf
 
Chris,



Just because something does not happen statically, i. e. , at zero engine rpm, does not mean something will not happen at 3000 rpm. You are really taking a chance by removing your plate. Cummins does not spend millions on design and research for nothing. I don't understand your blind faith in your mechanical analysis abilities and your refusal to believe others who have spent much more time tinkering with these engines. :confused:
 
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