Thank you ex-president Clinton

[Sled Puller]

It is hard to convict when key witnesses are threatened to keep silent, (and promised pardons, which billy boy kept is word on them, 1 thing ) or just end up missing.



The Clinton political war machine was tough to beat. If you crossed them, they destroyed you.



Hillary had done her homework over the years, and kept dirt on everyone she knew, or wanted to do business with her, for leverage





What exactly was wrong with Iran-Contra?

Wasn't that the one that the Democrat Senators did not know the meaning of "Covert Operation"??

 

[loncray]

No, Iran Contra was the one where Congress said "Don't" and the Administration illegally went around them. Selling arms to the Iranians in order to finance illegal arms shipments to the Nicaraguan Contras - sounds like the Russian Mafia.

What key witnesses went missing? Vince Foster killed himself - 'grassy knoll' conspiracys aside - but who else died? Y'all keep saying what nasty people the Clintons are - but all I see is smoke. Where's the imprisoned criminals? If the Clinton Machine was so powerful, why didn't they get Gore elected? Joe McCarthy would be proud.

 

[me4osu]

Here is the Truth or Fiction article on the Clinton body count. Of course there is no foul play found in any of them, but it sure is a heck of a lot of people.



Clinton Body Count

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by loncray

And my understanding was that Starr only put Webster Hubbell (sp?) in prison - who else got jailed?

Susan McDougall, for one.



Rusty

 

[loncray]

Susan McDougal was jailed for refusing the testify, IIRC, not on a criminal charge. And that TruthorFiction piece, while interesting, actually seems to refute any connection between President Clinton and those deaths. All that investigating by all those people never found any connections - even Ken Starr's office said that Vince Foster was a suicide.

I'd be interested in seeing a similar list of deaths connected with any president. Unfortunately, President Clinton was the first one with a widespread internet to spread lies and slander, so he gets the only list. So far.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by loncray

Susan McDougal was jailed for refusing the testify, IIRC, not on a criminal charge.

That makes about as much sense as "What is the meaning of IS?"



Was she in jail? Yes. Why? Because she refused to testify before a Grand Jury about Whitewater. Is refusing to testify before a Grand Jury illegal? Apparently so.



Rusty

 

[loncray]

Contempt of Court

It's an administrative action, not a criminal charge. My court gets them all the time in Child Support cases (failure to pay CS). And I believe she was finally freed without ever having testified - though I wouldn't swear to that.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by loncray

And my understanding was that Starr only put Webster Hubbell (sp?) in prison - who else got jailed?

Here is the original question. Nothing was mentioned about criminal charges versus administrative action. Was Susan McDougal jailed? Yes. QED.



Rusty

 

[Sled Puller]

Gore was SUPPOSED to win.



They did not expect the kind of turnout that they got from rural America. They were sure they had enough illegal votes to cover, but honest Americans fooled them.



Look at the number of votes Clinton got in either of his two elections.



Now look at the number Gore got.



Sorry folks, Gore was not that popular. That was the crookedest election since Kennedy bought enough votes to beat Nixon.



All Americans will end up paying for not prosecuting those crooks.

 

[loncray]

Okay, argue semantics all you want. Hubbell went to prison after a criminal conviction. No other Clinton Administration people did. 29 Reagan Administration people went to prison. More should have.

The question remains - people froth at the mouth about President Clinton's perfidy - where's the evidence? Why couldn't Ken Starr put him in jail? Either President Clinton was a complete idiot or an international criminal on par with Carlos the Jackal, but he can't have been both. There's even posts about how we'll all know "when the truth comes out" - but I cannot believe the "Clinton Machine" is so fantastically efficient that they can get away with stopping a $42 million investigation AND every anti-Clinton fanatic with money and an axe to grind from finding the truth.

 

[loncray]

Oh, that's right - I forgot about the Gore Election machine. Another left-wing conspiracy. Where's the evidence on those illegal votes? Where's the convictions on election fraud? All those rural, honest Americans (by which you mean loyal Republicans) have court systems too - where's the election fraud trials?



You did get one thing right - Al Gore was supposed to win. Too bad Florida's voting system is/was hosed, and too bad the Supreme Court didn't allow all the votes to be counted. The failings of the Electoral College system in allowing the winner of the popular vote to lose to the winner of the electoral vote are a constitutional issue, and probably a different topic for our discussions here.

 

[NETim]

MIA's

I have to wonder how many more would've been jailed if so many had not simply left the country. There was much that pointed back to the PRC but the people who might have provided some answers went back to their extradition free homelands.



Billy Boy was mighty cozy with the Chinese. Mighty cozy. Many many "rumors" that they helped fund his re-election campaign.



Naturally this debate could continue ad finitum. They are good examples of scum on both sides of the political fence. I'm sure we can all cite examples of bad apples regardless of party affiliation. I happen to think that overwhelming preponderance of scum resides on the left side of the fence is all.



I mean what kind of political party can look at itself in the mirror when Teddy Kennedy (D-Chappaquiddick) is a member? The man sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee and determines who is fit to be a Federal Judge. And we're supposed to keep a straight face?



For me choice is simple. The Democratic party is home to the last vestiges of the left in this country. They want my guns and my take home pay. Their message is that Average Joe Sixpack is a complete and utter boob who cannot and should not be allowed to fend for himself. Ted Kennedy is one of their heros. They consider Bill Clinton a great man. Tom Dashole is considered a "leader. " They would have us all live in mediocrity rather than allow us all the chance to excel.



Screw the DNC.



Tim

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by loncray

Okay, argue semantics all you want.

I don't believe I'm the one arguing semantics. When I raised the fact that Ms. McDougal was jailed, the response was that"... she was jailed for refusing to testify, not for a criminal charge. " That's arguing semantics as far as I'm concerned.



You know, for the life of me I can't understand why anyone would expend the energy to defend such bastions of morality, integrity and character as the Clintons (either of them). I guess we should all hope that our children grow up to be just like them.



Rusty

 

[loncray]

I defend the Clintons because it burns me up that the right wing in this country spends so much time coming up with new and interesting lies about them. I don't defend his behavior with Monica Lewinsky - it annoys the hell out of me. But after 8 years of Reagan's shenanigans, I was relieved to have first George Bush, and then Bill Clinton as my President. It really ticks me off now to have the same people who whined for eight years that "Charlton Heston is MY President" and so forth are the ones who jump all over anybody with the slightest thing against Bush because "He's our Commander in Chief". Shoe's on the other foot now. Too bad.

 

[NETim]

All the whining must've paid off, 'cause look who's got both houses of Congress and the White House. And the Dems continue to drift ever leftward.



Too bad.



Tim

 

[loncray]

It isn't that the Dems are drifting leftward, it's that the GOP is drifting to the right (at least, that's my point of view). Which is too bad - as a moderate I'm opposed to the extremists both right AND left. And you're correct - they hold both houses of Congress right now. But the few GOP moderates left vote with the Democrats every now and again to prevent the really nutty conservative stuff from happening. See, I believe this country is really moderate, not conservative or liberal. The Al Sharptons and Carol Mosely-Brauns help balance out the Scaifes and Scalias. Most of the members of this list (with a few exceptions) are conservative - natural considering who tends to buy this sort of truck.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by loncray

It isn't that the Dems are drifting leftward, it's that the GOP is drifting to the right (at least, that's my point of view)... . See, I believe this country is really moderate, not conservative or liberal.

If the former is the case, I wonder why, after having a stranglehold since reconstruction, for the last two elections not a single statewide-elected office in Texas has been held by a Democrat? If the voting populace is really moderate and has turned the state (as well as the nation) over to the Republicans, what does that say about the Democratic message? Too liberal to swallow? I think so.



Rusty

 

[NETim]

Nope I disagree

Both parties are going left IMHO. The Dems have long used the tactic of buying votes with tax dollars. The Republicans seem to be doing it more and more since George W took office. They don't exhibit the same gusto for reducing Federal spending like they used to. I guess that's what the people of this country want, a "free lunch" regardless of what it costs.



But since Pelosi is now House Minority leader and Daschle remains Senate minority leader, I think it's obvious which way the DNC is headed. I consider neither a moderate.



Tim

 

[loncray]

It says that Texas is a conservative state and the Democratic Party hasn't been able to get a worthwhile candidate with a good message. But what about Virginia? Conservative state, just had two GOP governors in a row - now we've got a Democrat for governor and lt. Governor. And isn't Wyoming's governor a Democrat again? Hard to find a state much more conservative than that. My point is that elections can go any which way. I do believe that conservatives are much more likely to go vote - they have a lot more passion for their hot-button issues than moderates do.

 

[loncray]

When's the last time the Republicans had any gusto for reducing federal spending? Our biggest deficits have all been under Republican presidents.