Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) the 01 quit

[Threewolves]

I was out driving with my Grandson (15 yr learners permit) we where going about 55 and the engine/truck bucked about three times like it was not getting fuel, then getting fuel. I had him pull over I drove the truck a couple of miles then had him take over again. We stopped for a while then started driving again. He said Grandpa it's not getting any fuel, I said what do you mean. It's not getting any fuel and it's hard to steer and the breaks aren't working. We were only going about 25 mph when the truck quite. I just had him ease it over and stand on the breaks.

I would like to offer up an engine code, but I am having the below issue.
So, I checked FAQ to jog my memory on how to check engine codes. ON and off three times and leave it on the third time. This procedure is not working for me.
Is there a trick to this on and off again thing?

If I pull my fuel filter top off and it is empty would the problem be my fuel pump? (note the original fuel pump was replaced by the dealer with a new one in the fuel tank ages ago). If I just turn the key on without starting it I thinking it should fill the filter container shouldn't it, to determine if it is the fuel pump? The fuel filter was changed about 10 months ago, I usually change it once a year.

I know this information is on the forums some where, but how could I tell it is the injection pump?

The truck has about 225,000, never really had any issues. I put Banks stuff on it around 100,000 exhaust, some kinda of Banks controller. Again never really had any issues with it.
My Grandson said the engine moved around quite a bit while I was attempting to restart it.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

To check the lift pump I suggest bumping the starter to initiate the cycle, then pop the drain lever open a moment. If the lift pump is running and in good working order fuel will gush out rather quickly (stick a jug over the end).

A friend had a similar experience when his VP44 died on his 2002, rolling down the freeway running perfectly fine when suddenly without warning it missed and bucked hard a moment then conked out for good. I think that's the result of a rotor seizing.

For some good diagnostics check out Blue Chip Diesel site--> http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/vp44_diagnostics.html

 

[JR]

Is the CEL on? If so, I would try to locate a scanner and pull the codes up. The key trick should work barring an electrical problem or ECM.

You should be getting fuel to the canister when you bump the key. Can you hear the lift pump at all? You dont have to crank the starter, just bump it. I would not crank the engine over anymore until you have a full filter and are ready to crack injectors to bleed the system. Check fuses and connections first, if everything is good your likely looking at a lift pump. Getting the codes read will help in diagnosing.

 

[KATOOM]

Turn the key to the ON position and you should hear the fuel pump cycle for approx 2 seconds. Bump the starter with the ignition and you should hear the fuel pump cycle for approx 25 seconds. If you're not hearing anything then you can most likely determine that the fuel pump isnt working. But if you're hearing something then make sure there's fuel in the tank. Something commonly overlooked and potentially an incorrect fuel level gauge sender.

 

[Threewolves]

Hey, I got off work. The code thing worked when I did it quickly. The code I got was P 1693. I could hear the pump. Tomorrow, when I get off work I will check the fuel canister level. So, P 1693?

 

[KATOOM]

P1693 is a "companion code" and means there's another code in the system. If the truck wont start and thats the only code you have then there's a chance that the VP failed electronically as the PSG solder crystallizes over time and can result in erratic conditions or instant failure while driving. A code reader will help retrieve any other codes.

 

[Threewolves]

Note much of an update, I got off work late. I tried reading the codes with a smarty tuner from a 6.7 (in a 5.9). It would not even set up or there is something really messed up. Auto Zone will let me use theirs for 140.00 and I get the 140.00 back. Next update tomorrow. The key code thing gave the P1693 then P done. I guess it was just finished/

 

[KATOOM]

The odometer will cycle through whatever codes are stored and end with a p-done but again, the p1693 is a companion code to another issue. If there's another code then only a scan tool will retrieve it. And cheap scanners dont always have the ability to read all codes so if you plan on buying one dont get the least expensive one you can. Either use the AZ one or buy a decent one.
Remind me though. Is the truck running?

 

[Threewolves]

Nope the truck is not running.

The code is p1688 internal fuel injection pump controller malfunction confirmed and the next code is the same code etc Pending. Well now I know.
I like the idea of a two yr WT for the 2,400.00 blue chip, I'll have to call them. Something about if the wire is nicked/damage it voids the WT. They have the pumps from 1200 and up.

O'Rillieys wants 1400 1yr wt.

Dodge wants 2900 & 6 month WT, but The said they'll make it one yr WT. 3500 installed.

My issue is my Banks control is wired into the injector pump wire. It was just clipped in with a connector, Dodge was checking out a 'hesitation" along time ago and soldiered the controller wire to the pump wire. I have time, mostly because I have another vehicle to use. I read through blue chips directions and I will watch a couple of youtube videos and figger out how I am going to go about this. I will check around some more. Thanks for the input. If anything else comes to mind let me know. Paul A.

 

[SnoKing]

I got mine from Midwest Fuel injection years ago for $1046. Has been running fine. I would not pay big bucks for a 1k pump. Snoking

 

[KATOOM]

Nope the truck is not running.

The code is p1688 internal fuel injection pump controller malfunction confirmed and the next code is the same code etc Pending. Well now I know.
I like the idea of a two yr WT for the 2,400.00 blue chip, I'll have to call them. Something about if the wire is nicked/damage it voids the WT. They have the pumps from 1200 and up.

O'Rillieys wants 1400 1yr wt.

Dodge wants 2900 & 6 month WT, but The said they'll make it one yr WT. 3500 installed.

My issue is my Banks control is wired into the injector pump wire. It was just clipped in with a connector, Dodge was checking out a 'hesitation" along time ago and soldiered the controller wire to the pump wire. I have time, mostly because I have another vehicle to use. I read through blue chips directions and I will watch a couple of youtube videos and figger out how I am going to go about this. I will check around some more. Thanks for the input. If anything else comes to mind let me know. Paul A.

I thought you said that the code you retrieved was 1693 not 1688. That makes a clear difference because the 1688 code is pretty much telling you the VP has failed. But that said, if your truck simply quit while driving like the key was shut off and your code is 1693 then its most likely that the VP's PSG failed as well.

As for the Banks unit..... I'd remove it as you always have to assume that any aftermarket electronic device is potentially the culprit to why the truck wont run right, or run at all. That said, tapping the VP wire is personal choice. Some people wont pierce the wire because doing so can mean less reliability from the VP, and spending that kind of money tends to trump gambling. Not always.....but generally. I prefer not to tap the VP which is why I run the Edge EZ and I'll add more power through injectors. Again, personal preference.

Lastly, paying $2400 for a VP is crazy. I know Blue Chip has a proven reputation but when your direct competition is better than half that price, how can they compete? I agree that 2 yrs is better than 1 yr for a warranty but you could almost buy three VP's from very reputable suppliers for that amount of money. And IMPORTANT.....do NOT buy a VP from any auto parts store or the Dodge dealer. Not only are they less likely to hand you a properly re-manufactured unit which houses all the most current upgrades and new PSG, but that they're also too expensive. You need to deal with people who know whats up here. Buy from the reputable vendor list of VP re-builders and suppliers. If you need that list, I'll dig it up.

 

[JR]

There are covers that allow you to tap the pump without piercing the wire.

$1000 will not get you a reman pump with a new PSG. Your playing Russian rhoullete there. Spend the money and get a new PSG, not used or reman.

 

[Threewolves]

Katoom

The key check gave the 1693 code. When I put the code reader on I got two codes both 1688, one said internal fuel injection pump controller malfunction confirmed and the other 1688 said internal fuel injection pump controller malfunction pending, But yes it did stop running just like the key was shut off.

Snoking: Around 1046 sounds a lot better.

JR: copy, about the new PSG

As always---more research & I have to go to work.

 

[KATOOM]

That makes sense and knowing that, its clear the VP has quit on you electronically.

Tapping the VP wire via externally or with the help of a stealth cover.....its all still tapping the pump and places additional strain on the solenoid to achieve that additional fueling. Like I said, some are comfortable doing so and some are not. I am not.....

I'll find that list of venders I was referring too so you can talk to some other sources. Industrial Injection and Scheid Diesel are the first two I can think of at this moment.

And you dont need to pay $2400 to get a new PSG as a $1000 pump can come with a new PSG. But that said, you need to always ask whether or not a "new" PSG is included. You do NOT want a used PSG. Please let me explain: The PSG is merely the computer sitting atop the VP. Bosch uses lead free solder in these computers which is susceptible to crystallization over time due to extreme heat. Yes.....its a heavily questioned topic too. But nonetheless, how the PSG gets hot is the VP runs at approximately 120*-150* while the engine is running. But shut the engine off and the VP is no longer being cooled by fuel which causes the 190*-200* engine to heat soak the cooler VP and in about 15-20 minutes the VP is now the same temp as the engine. This rise in heat can cause that solder crystallization and is referred to as a "heat cycle". The PSG is thought to have only so many heat cycles before the crystallization starts affecting performance and function.....and eventual complete failure. How many heat cycles is unknown but we're talking in the thousands upon thousands. Not to get you off track either but there's even talk about whether or not the heat soak is the true problem or whether or not there's something about "starting" the engine which places a severe load on the transducer in the PSG and causes a surge burnout. A question asked after the updated PSG as to what the new updated PSG could have that the older version didnt..... Again, LOTS of talk about this little device over the past decade.

So even though some venders will supply a re-manufactured VP with a used "working" PSG to save money, its best to assure that its brand new and is also the most updated version in order to combat crystallization. The newest PSG code is 0 281 010 890.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

That makes sense and knowing that, its clear the VP has quit on you electronically.

Tapping the VP wire via externally or with the help of a stealth cover.....its all still tapping the pump and places additional strain on the solenoid to achieve that additional fueling. Like I said, some are comfortable doing so and some are not. I am not.....

I'll find that list of venders I was referring too so you can talk to some other sources. Industrial Injection and Scheid Diesel are the first two I can think of at this moment.

And you dont need to pay $2400 to get a new PSG as a $1000 pump can come with a new PSG. But that said, you need to always ask whether or not a "new" PSG is included. You do NOT want a used PSG. Please let me explain: The PSG is merely the computer sitting atop the VP. Bosch uses lead free solder in these computers which is susceptible to crystallization over time due to extreme heat. Yes.....its a heavily questioned topic too. But nonetheless, how the PSG gets hot is the VP runs at approximately 120*-150* while the engine is running. But shut the engine off and the VP is no longer being cooled by fuel which causes the 190*-200* engine to heat soak the cooler VP and in about 15-20 minutes the VP is now the same temp as the engine. This rise in heat can cause that solder crystallization and is referred to as a "heat cycle". The PSG is thought to have only so many heat cycles before the crystallization starts affecting performance and function.....and eventual complete failure. How many heat cycles is unknown but we're talking in the thousands upon thousands. Not to get you off track either but there's even talk about whether or not the heat soak is the true problem or whether or not there's something about "starting" the engine which places a severe load on the transducer in the PSG and causes a surge burnout. A question asked after the updated PSG as to what the new updated PSG could have that the older version didnt..... Again, LOTS of talk about this little device over the past decade.

So even though some venders will supply a re-manufactured VP with a used "working" PSG to save money, its best to assure that its brand new and is also the most updated version in order to combat crystallization. The newest PSG code is 0 281 010 890.

YUP - all the above is very accurate - especially in reference to keeping the VP44 cool to protect the internal computer board - and while down-the-road underhood temps are not much higher than outside ambient temps, the underhood heat rise when the engine is shut down can rise dramatically - I've read from informed sources in the past, that temps much above 150 degrees start doing accumulative non-reversible damage to those boards. Dunno about long-term benefits, but I have a timed blower installed on my '02 truck that draws outside air and directs it past the VP44 for about 60 minutes after the ignition is switched off. It's been on there for quite a few years now, and seems to be both reliable and effective - here's pics of the setup and timer control and blower speed controls:

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A very long thread on this subject - especially the several last pages cover all this in pretty good detail:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...0*-your-inputs/page16?highlight=cool+air+VP44

 

[KATOOM]

Thats a HUGE thread and I want to say that I even think I remember tossing a post or two in there somewhere. There's only so many "real" useful threads about the VP and this one was particularly interesting in addressing the possible concepts of cooling the VP "after" shutting off the engine. I'm really interested to know more about your setup.

 

[SAndreasen]

I wonder I'f cold air while running would hurt the pump

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Thats a HUGE thread and I want to say that I even think I remember tossing a post or two in there somewhere. There's only so many "real" useful threads about the VP and this one was particularly interesting in addressing the possible concepts of cooling the VP "after" shutting off the engine. I'm really interested to know more about your setup.

Yes, that was a very long thread, it went from curiosity as to possible ways to providing extra cooling to the VP44 - especially at the area nearest the internal circuit board, complete to several good suggestions, and at least a couple of finished installations. Virtually everything shown in my own truck is still installed and operating perfectly, exactly as it was pictured in that article. Yeah - a lot more time and effort than most would want to get involved in, but not really much $$$ involved.

Truck underhood still looks today as it did back then:

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[ph]

Question. If the connector that was used to tap the pump cut the wire, would that wire being cut cause the pump to not operate? My question most likely displays my lack of knowledge about VP44s but I'm trying to learn here. Not trying to hijack the thread.
Thanks, ph

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Question. If the connector that was used to tap the pump cut the wire, would that wire being cut cause the pump to not operate? My question most likely displays my lack of knowledge about VP44s but I'm trying to learn here. Not trying to hijack the thread.
Thanks, ph

While it's POSSIBLE to accidentally cut the wire, the goal is to simply cut thru the outer insulation and allow the connector contact points to connect to the inner wire.