The 325 HP..7 micron fuel filter curse

[MojaveJoe]

So I ran across a youtube video made by Prince George Fuel Injection a Canadian business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BkDzxo6UNo

In it they claimed the 325s and their new 3 event injectors were often plagued with injector failures (100k miles +) and subsequent piston damage because the OEM 7 micron fuel filter on the late 325s was not filtering the fuel adequately. They recommended a 2-3 micron filter to prevent any eventual damage to the 325 engines.

My question is...can anyone corroborate this statement about the 2004.5-2007.0 engines?

Iam asking because Iam now broadening my search for a truck between 2004.0 and 2007.0 and if this is a common problem I will spend more time analyzing the injector performance and piston blow-by, before buying even a low mileage truck. Are there any codes that would show up in the event of over fueling or compression issues. I know about the smoke on heavy acceleration and oil cap blow-by symptoms.

All advice and experiences welcome.

 

[sag2]

Notice the truck has 330k or miles on the odometer. Also it isn't the filter that caused the damage, it is the filter change interval that caused it. If you keep clean fuel and clean filters in any diesel it will last far longer than one would imagine.
Also before 7 micron they were 10 micron, so I suppose based on this video, every truck should fail.

 

[Wayne M.]

There has been a report by Bosch (the manufacturer of the fuel system) regarding fuel lubricity (an issue in itself) and filtration quality (not aimed at Dodge, but at the industry). They do reccomend a 3-2um filtration rate, It's been discussed here pretty heavily. IMHO, you can't have too much filtration including water stripping, and it is here where Dodge kind of let it go. There are ways to remedy this, and if you find a truck worth investing in, I would advise it. Regarding the video, it illustrates a hurting engine, and the oil cap deal would be worthwhile to check and a valid test. When looking at trucks in this age group, anything is possible, and springing for a set of injectors at minimum has to be accepted. I think there are codes for failure in the electronic side of the injector, and misfire codes, but the old fashioned diagnostic like shown in the video and a return volume test, measuring the fuel returned to tank would be the final factors.

 

[frank1]

I watched the video and it says if you punch your truck and you get black smoke you have a problem (in a stock truck).??? Well... I get black smoke out of my 06' every time a punch the truck hard (especially when someone is tail gating me, I drop it into fifth and punch IT ... NO MORE TAILGATING!). In my 03's (again stock), hardly any smoke, both in the two automatics and the six speed. All my trucks fuel filters are changed every 10,000 miles with Baldwin filters, and the 4" air filter AA..... (forgot the numbers at this time), and Amsoil 15w-40 synethic Heavy duty motor oil w/ E080 filter, once a year or 15, 000 miles. Should I be concerned about the 06'??? Thanks, Frank

 

[jgillott]

Both my 04.5 (340K) and my 07 (96K) have smoked or at a minimum blown a haze under heavy throttle since new. After all of these combined miles, I'm not worried about it.

I did, like many others here, add additional filtration on my trucks. I don't know if that is what has helped to make it this long on stock injectors. But, it couldn't have hurt.

 

[Bob4x4]

The exhaust gets coated with soot when driven easy-punch it once in a while and you will see a blast of black.do a dozen of those and you will see less and less

 

[cerberusiam]

My question is...can anyone corroborate this statement about the 2004.5-2007.0 engines?

More events damage may happen faster. Add a Smarty that turns the 3rd event off and problem solved.

Not just +04.5, but, all CR's have a defined level of solids that will cause damage. Independent testing using ISO scar and wear tests indicated the CR systems suffered substantially more wear with solids greater than 3 um. If a truck has been lucky enough to use fuel with substantially larger amounts of solids it will not exhibit the wear one that has had dirtier fuel run thru it. The above opinion is scare tactics to sell parts and services, internet and diesel shops are full of them.

Every single truck, 2003-2012 will need to be judged on its own. A compression test looking for broken rings and the battery of fuel system test available should be mandatory. Won't stop it from tossing a rod as you drive it away but those failures are much less frequent than injectors or CP-3. The test will cost you some $$ but considerably less than a set of injectors or a engine rebuild. A basic test drive when up to temp looking for excessive black or grey smoke under hard acceleration, looking for excessive blow by pressure at a minimum of 1200 rpms, any weird knocks or injector rattle at idle or in the rpm range should suffice to indicate whether you want to proceed with the tests.

 

[MojaveJoe]

Now that's a bunch of good info guys....Keep it coming. Making me feel better about buying the last of the 5.9s I like those common sense ideas about how to determine an engines condition without using tools/electronics. If I get serious about a truck with a questionable engine, I'll just have to pay a shop for an analysis of the injectors and compression and fuel flow issues. And like one of you said, just be prepared to buy a new set of injectors (something Ive already included in my purchase strategy.) Thanks loads.

 

[BLNRAY]

my 03 has 411,000 mi the first mod on my truck was an fass 150,removed the oem filter completly.always bought fuel from high volume stations,replaced filters when the fuel pressure starts to drop.the injectors and the turbo are original.use mobil 1 5w-40 syn.changed the oil last week drained 11qt.s oil out,means it used 1 qt in 10,000 mi. iknow im pushing the limits on the injectors and i am shopping for replacements now,love the 5.9!

 

[Wayne M.]

mojavejoe, my aunt had a 6.0 ford, and got bit bad. It was around '06 and I urged her to get a 5.9 while she still could. She took a bath on the 6.0 and got into a nice Laramie.I got thanked for that advice for a long time.

 

[TGVET]

mojavejoe, my aunt had a 6.0 ford, and got bit bad. It was around '06 and I urged her to get a 5.9 while she still could. She took a bath on the 6.0 and got into a nice Laramie.I got thanked for that advice for a long time.

Baldwin filters in the OE canister and in the GDP 2mic. . 10+ years, 353,000 miles running strong on OE injectors, fuel pump. Change every 10-15K same interval for Amsoil 5w-30HDD, Ea80 oil filter. Consistent, regular maintenance.

 

[MojaveJoe]

TGVET... sounds like you and the others have a good maintenance plan that I will have to consider with my next used truck. Refresh my memory....what is a GDP 2mic?

Also can someone tell me if the 04.5 and 05 had the OEM fuel pump on the fuel filter canister on the firewall like my 04 did? My lift pump went out about 155K. How about yours? Think my first mod on a used truck will be a new fuel pump and 2 mic fuel filter system to replace the OEM parts.

 

[MConyers]

My '04.5 had the fuel pump like your '04. Starting with the '05s, or sometime during the run, the fuel pumps were put in the tank. IIRC, at some point warranty repairs to the earlier lift pumps were to replace with the in tank pumps. The other thing that comes to mind is that the '05 trucks had the charge air cooler with plastic sides, something else to look for issues with.

 

[Wayne M.]

Indeed, IMHO by '06 came the full wrath of the Daimler "marriage" was felt and quality issues began to arise like the plastic inter cooler and the TIPM body module. A coworker who was a solid Ford nut, but smart enough to keep away from 6.0 and 6.4's got a mega cab and honestly- it was a trouble truck- and he did immature mods to it which made it worse. Today he has a current model F350 gasser and suffering bad since he tows a 5er.

TGVET, bravo on the miles, but how many hours do you have? My 04.5 sits at 116k and 4300 hours. My avg speed is low, being in NYC and all.

 

[p-Bar]

More events damage may happen faster. Add a Smarty that turns the 3rd event off and problem solved.

Cerb I have never heard this that the Smarty kills the third event. That should increase fuel economy

 

[cerberusiam]

Cerb I have never heard this that the Smarty kills the third event. That should increase fuel economy

Marco has stated that has been turned off in all the Smarty software since 2006 sometime. It was more of an extension to the main event than a true 3rd event and was triggered by load conditions as needed. Driving for mpg and using a light foot would rarely see it activate anyway. Most of the efficiency gains from the Smarty will come with timing advance and subsequent changes in the duration and pressure. That and the right foot.

The in-tank LP started in MY 05. By now though it is likely a high percentage of the external LP's were retro-fitted with the in-tank pump as Dodge stopped handling it quite a while ago and just switched to the in-tank. You just have to check to see what is there.

The plastic IC was only used in the first 1/2 of MY05, the later 05 trucks went back to the aluminum one. That said, my son has a plastic IC in his trick and it has over 200k on it. We have played pretty hard with a Smarty and TST and it is still holding.

The TTVA motor on the auto trans and the APPS moved to the inside of the firewall started in MY 05 also. TIPM and CAN bus protocols started in MY 06. The 06+ trucks have a few more interior upgrades and the meg cab, the 05 was the pinnacle of the 5.9 and the Ram as far as reliability, simplicity (relatively), and ease of maintenance. The 05's were dead reliable electronically and did not short the TIPM out every time a spark jumped somewhere. The EOBD protocol was much more reliable and less susceptible to noise than the early CAN systems. Mechanically the same truck under the covers, just the electronics and accessories changed.

The 05's also split on the manual trans offerings. Early was still the NV5600, later models had the G56 and DMF in them.

Simply comes down to what you can find, in what shape, for what price at the time.

 

[AH64ID]

I have spoken to Bosch directly about the filtration for their CP3 and injectors used in the Dodge/Cummins HPCR. For the 5.9 system, which can operate at OEM pressures up to 23,206psi, the Bosch recommended filtration level is 5um absolute. The original OEM fuel filter was 10um absolute and failures were more common so Dodge/Cummins dropped the filters to 7um which is still short of where Bosch wants it to be.

The only filter for the OEM canister I am aware of that meets the Bosch reccommended 5um filtration rating with proper fuel/water separation is the Baldwin PF7977. There are other filters that exceed 5um but they don't fit the OEM cansiter.

Wix filters are 8um and therfore don't even meet the min OEM spec which is lower than Bosch reccomendation, so don't run Wix.

Fuel fitlers actually filter their worst brand new so over-servicing fuel filters can also allow more particles to get into the fuel system. Change them at the recommended interval unless you are having issues such as poor performance or a pressure drop. The Baldwin filter holds 82% more dirt than the OEM filter with a 1.5 psid higher rating, so there is no regular reason to change them more often.

This is not 325 motor specific, it applies to all 5.9 HPCR's. 6.7 HPCR's got better OEM filtration at 5um due to their higher pressures and maybe Dodge learned something with warranty claims on the 5.9 HPCR.



p-Bar the 3rd event, as cerberusiam mentioned, is not occurring during cruise profiles and it is never much which is why a mileage gain isn't often seen from just deleting it. The biggest mileage gains come while cruising above 2000 rpms because of how low the timing is on the OEM map. The timing while passing/towing/etc is also much more effecient when tuned but those times aren't good for mileage anyhow.

 

[jjdiesel]

TGVET... sounds like you and the others have a good maintenance plan that I will have to consider with my next used truck. Refresh my memory....what is a GDP 2mic?

Also can someone tell me if the 04.5 and 05 had the OEM fuel pump on the fuel filter canister on the firewall like my 04 did? My lift pump went out about 155K. How about yours? Think my first mod on a used truck will be a new fuel pump and 2 mic fuel filter system to replace the OEM parts.

GDP 2mic?...Glacier Diesel Performance 2 mic fuel filter added between OEM filter and CP-3.

 

[AH64ID]

Just a reminder that there is no such thing as a 2um absolute fuel filter by current standards, and there hasn't been for many years.

The most common filter thread size used is 1-14" and the best filter is the FF5814 from Fleetguard (3um NanoNet which is Fleetguards premium HPCR media), followed by the Donaldson P551313 (3um), then the Cat 1R-0750 (4um), and lastly a FF5320 (5um). IMHO those are the only filters to run in the final filtration application. The Baldwin cross is 7um and Wix is wix.

I now run the FF5814 and haven't ran the Cat filter since 2011.

 

[p-Bar]

I was under the impression that the 3rd event was to keep the catalytic hot more smog purpose . I get what you guys are saying