The post office is spying on you

[mdlowry]

The Under the Eagle's Eye program, which has been in effect since 1997,

trains postal clerks to watch for customers who act "suspiciously"

while purchasing money orders, making wire transfers, or buying cash

cards.

According to Post Office rules, "suspicious" activity could include

counting money in line, purchasing a large money order, or purchasing

several smaller money orders. However, the Post Office refuses to

disclose the full parameters used to determine suspicious activity,

saying it is a law enforcement secret.

But a customer does not need to meet any legal definition of suspicious

activity -- such as "beyond reasonable doubt" -- to be reported to the

government, according to the Under the Eagle's Eye manual. Instead, "if

it seems suspicious to you, then it is suspicious," the manual tells

postal employees.

Clerks are instructed that it is "better to report 10 legal

transactions than to let one illegal transaction get by. "

If a customer does act "suspiciously," postal employees are required to

fill out government Form 8105-B, also called a Suspicious Activity

Report. The form includes a description of the customer and his or her

car's license plate number, if possible. Form 8105-Bs are then sent to

the Treasury Department or stored in a Post Office database for at

least five years.

"It's frightening that postal clerks have the power to report you to

the FBI, the IRS, the DEA, or the Treasury Department as a suspected

drug dealer or money launderer simply because you've purchased a money

order," said Dasbach.

The program is an offshoot of Bank Secrecy Act regulations, created in

1997 by the Treasury Department. The regulations are supposedly

designed to detect illegal money laundering, to track drug-related

money, and to catch terrorists.

Although officials decline to reveal how many "suspicious" customers

have been reported to law enforcement, the Post Office sells about $9

billion in money orders a year. This means that tens or hundreds of

thousands of Americans may have been identified as potential drug

dealers or money-launderers by postal employees.

And a disproportionate number of those suspects are poor people,

immigrants, or minorities, noted Dasbach -- since those groups have

less access to bank accounts, and are more likely to send money orders

to foreign relatives.

"The Under the Eagle's Eye program is not just reprehensible because it

spies on Americans, it's reprehensible because it spies on the poorest,

most vulnerable Americans," he said. "It's especially shameful that

immigrants -- many of whom fled to America to escape oppressive

governments -- are spied on by our own government. "

The Post Office refuses to disclose how many criminals it has

apprehended because of the Under the Eagle's Eye program. However, a

similar program which requires banks to monitor suspicious financial

activity generates 99,999 reports on innocent customers for every one

report on a law-breaker, according to the National Economic Council.

If that ratio is the same for the Post Office -- and there's no reason

to believe otherwise -- then the Under the Eagle's Eye program is

infringing on innocent Americans' privacy on a massive scale, noted

Dasbach.

"The idea of treating everyone who buys a money order as a criminal

suspect is outrageous," he said. "That's the reverse of the way things

are supposed to work in America, where we believe it's better to let 10

guilty people go free than to harass one innocent person.

"If police have probable cause to think you've committed a crime, they

should go to court and get a warrant, instead of requiring postal

clerks to act as government informants. "

Now that the Under the Eagle's Eye program has become public knowledge,

Americans should rise up and demand an end to Post Office spying, said

Dasbach.

"Unfortunately, the Eagle has landed -- right on top of your privacy,"

he said. "It's time to abolish this un-American spy scheme, and ground

the Eagle for good. "

#ad

 

[EMDDIESEL]

So get your Money orders at 7-11, Wawa, Sheets, whatever conveinience store you have in your area. Thats what i do. I am quite sure THEY are not reporting you. Maybe i am crazy, but i have alot better things to do with my day then CONSTANTLY worry about what the government is doing. And how they might be "Spying" on me constantly. They can watch me all they want, they can check my bank records, they can take my picture, they can even search my house, WHO CARES?, i have nothing to hide. I work, pay taxes, and serve the US Navy without having to worry about any of that stuff. The ONLY people who should be worried about the goverment watching them is CRIMINALS!. Just my 2cents

 

[Power Wagon]

You have it wrong. The only people who should be worried about the government spying on them are people who beleive the government should live within it's bounds, butt out of where it does NOT belong, and actually think the constitution means what it says when it says when it limits federal power only to the things it is mandated to do (Re: 10th Amendment).



As much as we would like to say our government is our friend, it isn't. It is supposed to be our SERVANT, where we are the masters and it the servant, not the other way around, where it snoops into everything, presumes everyone guilty, and then proceeds to regulate us, control us, and mandate behavior on OUR part just to make it's own ends easier to achieve.



BZZZZTTTTTT!!!!!!



Wrong attitude, friend. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance against governmental encroachment into our lives.



This isn't paranoia, nor is it wacked out imagination... This is merely a reflection on the nature of government - which is to acrue ever more power, wealth, and control to itself. That nature is to be kept in check by law - the constitution being chief restriction. Guard that boundary zealously, it is the ONLY thing between us and tyranny.

 

[gitchesum]

Is shipping dead deer parts coinsidered a suspicious act. Let's ask Steve St. Laurent.

 

[Lhotka]

Power Wagon



You used the words "control" and "regulate" when describing our government in your reply to EMDiesel. You hit it right on the head. George Bush, the ultimate government official, is part of an organization that controls and regulates the price of fuel I place in my truck. I guess that's OK, because I can use his huge tax rebate to cover my extra fuel costs.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Power wagon, that was some piece! You were born about thirty years too late. You would have made a great leader in the late 1960's. Reading that took me back to my late teen years that I spent with my oldest sister, who was a big time hippie. That was the stuff you would hear blasting out of a bullhorn, from a long haired hippy, standing on top of a car at a college campus rally! Thanks for the trip back in time



Sam

 

[Shovelhead]

What are we all worryin' about?

If these are the typical gov't employees... ... ... . you'll have a hard time gettin' them do do their regular jobs during their work shift, much less have them take on additional duties that they're not being paid for.



I guess now I'LL be flamed by all the "other" gov't employees



BTW one of the GS11s at my location comes in at 9:30, takes a 2 hour lunch, leaves at 3:00, and gets paid for 9 hours worked.

Great job if you can get it

 

[Steve M]

I agree with Power Wagon and EMDDIESEL. I have nothing to hide either so I'm not really worried about the government spying on me from a legal point of view. I do however feel that the government has stepped way too far into our personal lives. both major parties want to be our parents and legislate what they feel is best for us.

On the other hand, criminals have the upper hand. They use the constitution more than anyone else to jump through loopholes and escape convictions for crimes ranging from petty theft to horrific murders. How can we help law enforcement catch these people and put them away. I don't mean call 911 if you smell pot wafting over the fence from your neighbors house. But if your neighbor is a single lady and you see a person you know doesn't belong there hanging around outside in the bushes, do you respect his rights under the constitution, or do you call the police and let them check him out?

The form and instructions at the PO aren't all that different. While we're in public we're judged by everyone around us. The forms are "more paperwork" for people that are already busy. I would have to think that a person would have to be really suspicious for the clerk to go to the trouble of filling out the form. Probably to the point that the other patrons would also be suspicious and maybe alittle anxious.

There's a difference between being a busy-body and simply seeing a red flag and acting on it. We have records and profiles of ourselves in files and computers that we've not even thought of. Even more so now that we're online. Is there a definate line to be drawn or is it also a matter of personal opinion?

 

[The patriot]

PW FOR PREZ!!!

Banks have done this for years. I think it's a mandate that they notify the Govt for withdrawls over 10K, but my bank told me it's SOP for them to make the call at 5K. This isnt on loans, this is on YOUR MONEY!!



Steve m, I dont have anything to hide either, however it seems more and more it's "guilty until proven innocent" rather than the other way around.

The Govt has a bottomless pit of (tax) money to bring up BS charges on anyone they want (and they do this daily). Joe average citizen can go broke in short order trying to defend himself from these trumped up BS charges. If you have something they want, they'll get it by any means.



Not to mention, it (Govt) was never supposed to be like this.

It sucks.

Eric

 

[NVR FNSH]

Power Wagon,

You continously refer to 'the government' as if it is a living being capable of cognizant thought - it is not. Gov't is made up of people that have been elected to represent the citizens. I have never seen 'government' listed as a candidate on any ballot. Have you?



The people that have been elected want to expand the areas that are governed - 'government' cannot do this on it's own.



I do agree with you that our representatives are overstepping the bounds in most cases.



Brian

 

[EMDDIESEL]

Just want to clear one thing up. I am NOT saying i think what the post office is doing is a "Great idea". i am just saying i dont care if they do. Yeah, it sounds like a far fetched idea to look for "Suspicious" people that MIGHT possibly be a criminal, but in the end, if i am being "Watched" by the underpaid clerk, Oh well, maybe it will be the most excitiement he or she has all day. Life goes on, right?.

 

[mdlowry]

"I don't have anything to hide, so I don't care. "



This is how we lost our right to unreasonable search and seizure (4th ammendment). The government is allowed to seize your home, bank accounts, mutual funds, etc. without a warrent. All they need is a suspicion that you have drugs. No warrent, no conviction, no arrest, and no trial are needed. Dean Koontz talks about this is his book DARK RIVERS OF THE HEART. Hope your on good terms with your neighbors.



Michael

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

From gitchesum:

Is shipping dead deer parts coinsidered a suspicious act. Let's ask Steve St. Laurent.

Well, at least shipping deer testes is! Here's the story - Doc Tinker wanted to make a deer scrotum shift knob. He asked me if I could send him one, so when I bagged a deer last year I packed the scrotum in salt and double zip lock baggied them and sent them priority mail. 3-4 months later I get a call from a postal inspector asking if I realize that it is a federal offense to ship what I did!! #ad
I said ummmm - no I didn't. We talked it over for a few minutes and he dropped it - who woulda thought!?!?!?



-Steve

 

[merryman]

1). How many postal employees are going to go to the extra trouble to fill out the form necessary to make the report? I would bet few to darn few.





2) My daughter in law works for the post office.

She is AT work by 7 AM and her most consistent problem is that she gets more overtime than is really allowed, but thats what the it takes to process all the mail that passess through our PO. Its a rare week that she works only 5 days; nearly allways a half day on Sat. after 5 full days. Can't immagine her taking time to fill in a form regarding a suspicious customer.

When she got the job, five years ago I too assumed it would be a cushy job. Far from it.



Vaughn

 

[Archive]

Steve... you are always getting into trouble! LOL.



Did you know that a satelite can take your picture and distinguish your face? There are many of them up there. I can zoom in on peoples houses all over the country!

 

[rich m]

Originally posted by Rob Hanson

Steve... you are always getting into trouble! LOL.



Did you know that a satelite can take your picture and distinguish your face? There are many of them up there. I can zoom in on peoples houses all over the country!

Ok, so how many times have I taken a whiz in my backyard?

Does this activity, in any way, shape, fashion or form affect my tax bracket?



Now, for any interested government officials, I lead an absolutely uninteresting life, similar to what's depicted in Joe Walsh's "Ordinary, Average Guy" song, but without the Chrysler-driving friend, picking up of dog-doo, hoping it's hard, bowling a few frames, drinking a few beers, and anything else mentioned in that or any other song.

 

[Idaho Native]

Rob... that's why you have your "sunny side up" if you ever get the opportunity to do the horizontal boogie in the woods.



Loren