The "Wal-Mart is ruining America" thread

[merryman]

I am a little bothered by the elitist attitude I see in some of the "average American" comments above.



Forgive me if I sound like I'm beating my own drum, I do it only to make a point, but I am entitled to show three sets of initials after my name (I NEVER do), and to use the title "Judge" (which I never do). My wife too has done post grad work in Psychology. While in private practice we rubbed elbows with the social set---lunched with governors and senators, etc;

BUT I am NOT offended by the average American nor do I object to shopping with him/her; "they" may be rough around the edges, but it is the individual character that counts.

When rubbing elbows the the wealthy and prominent, I found any number of them to be, at the core, scumbags; at the same time I have known numerous of the uneducated, unpolished and really rough looking who were basically "salt of the earth".

I think we should judge others by who they are, not how they look.

Heck, I'll bet Hillary puts up a great front, but I'll most likely prefer the "mouth breather" at WalMart------where, by the way, I do shop, trying real hard to avoid buying anything stamped "made in China".

Sorry to sound so hollier than thou, but this sort of thing bothers me.

Vaughn

 

[willyslover]

Mike Ellis...

don't know you from Adam. . so please do not take what I'm about to say as a personal attack...computers do not do well in showing the voice inflections and tone



I do not know what your retail expierence is or what you know of the business practices of the companies you use in your examples... I am a retired Manager of a Costco location and I have about 35 years expierence in the retail world, several companies. [BTW I no longer have any Costco stock or relationship with them]



I can tell you that you have no clue as to what your saying when you compair a Costco with a Sams... . its like aples and oranges. . ya they are both friut but that is all they share incommon. . Costco and Sams are both retailers but that is the end of the comonality. .



the home office culture and buying scruples are directly opposed. . one looking for profit only by low quality high margin, the other looking to improve member value and quality with strict profit margin control. .



in the Costco world they do not buy close outs and will not buy junk merchandise [except tools LOL being a ex Snap On dealer personal choice here] ... they have a max 14% gross margin on any item and seldon see that percent in the real price. NO BUYER even tries to go over that percent as it takes a personal approval fron the CEO and he has stated hundreds of time don't ask and would probably demote one that did ask... most locations avg. around a 9% [+/- a basis point or so. . for those that don't know what that is its a . oo % or better said a hundreth so . 01 or . 02 making it a 9. 01 or 9. 02] gross combined goods.



as to the location avg. sales Sams avg store is around 45 million a year and the Costco avg. around 110 million a year with locations that are well over 250 million



now compair the return policy. . Sams = hastle [unless the Mgr. is involved to a high degree in his location which is rare]



Costco 100% member satisfaction . PERIOD. . if any location is found not to taking care of the member hell is to be paid to several levels of VP's and the devisional Mgr's and then the CEO himself . . there have been Mgrs who have had the oppertunity for retraining do to poor member service. .



so please at least compair Costco to the companies who have a very high degree of integrety ala a Nordstroms or their equal



BTW I could go on for hrs. as to the differences butt I think you get the idea.

 

[willyslover]

just thought of other interesting things



Costco's return percentage on ave. is less than a hundreth of a percent [. 00] to sales . . the industry retail average is around 10 and as high as 15%. . this refers directly to quality



the shrink in a Costco is on avg. . 30% ... industry avg. is around

5% many higher [shrink is unaccounted loss. . IE theft, dammaged goods not properly accounted for,unaccounted margin reduction ala employee discounts goods at the register , another form of employee theft ect. ect. ]



these ##'s are unheard of in the retail world

 

[QRTRHRS]

I am in a quandry here.

My job went overseas so I go back to driving truck after 2 years of tech school and 20 years of making semiconductors right? So, I get a job doing P&D with an occasional LTL. The P&D includes supplying a large outlet complex.



While most of our drops consist of taking the material to the back door, the complex requires breaking down the skids and taking the boxes inside all too small side doors.



Guess where all these boxes are coming from? You got it.



You know what they say, "One door closes, another opens".

 

[Champane Flight]

Whip their arse

I really think we could do without our military. If you think about it, all we have to do is put a Wal-mart and Mac donalds in Baghdad! They would all be obese and riding in the carts at Wally world within a year!

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: Whip their arse

Originally posted by Champane Flight

I really think we could do without our military. If you think about it, all we have to do is put a Wal-mart and Mac donalds in Baghdad! They would all be obese and riding in the carts at Wally world within a year!

LMAO :-laf

 

[bmoeller]

wal-mart books

Anyone read any of these books? I haven't.



Slam-Dunking Wal-Mart -- Al Norman; Hardcover



How Wal-Mart is Destroying America and The World and What You Can Do About It -- Bill Quinn; Paperback



The Wal-Mart Decade: How a New Generation of Leaders Turned Sam Walton's Legacy into the World's #1 Company -- Robert Slater; Hardcover

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: wal-mart books

Originally posted by bmoeller

Anyone read any of these books? I haven't.



Slam-Dunking Wal-Mart -- Al Norman; Hardcover



How Wal-Mart is Destroying America and The World and What You Can Do About It -- Bill Quinn; Paperback



The Wal-Mart Decade: How a New Generation of Leaders Turned Sam Walton's Legacy into the World's #1 Company -- Robert Slater; Hardcover

If they will run a summary of one of them in Playboy I will look at it

 

[Rman]

Re: Something to Cheer You Up...

Originally posted by Mike Ellis

Those of you who are having your jobs off-shored or out-sourced, take heart. The last laugh will be on the company you work for, virtually a certainty.



... ... .....



Poetic justice, IMHO.

I've been out of town and am currently catching up on the thread... but that was one AWESOME post. For those interested, he's right on every avenue. Well said my friend.

 

[Mike Ellis]

willyslover,



Not the first time I've been told I have no clue, if I am wrong about Costco and overstock etc then I am happy to eat one of their famous 12" pies. Make that a humble pie, please. .



But I will stand by my comment in my first post regarding whether products at a warehouse store are the same as "regular retail". Tain't necessarily so (notice that "necessarily" caveat that I put in there).



Here's a quote directly from Costco discussing how products sold in other stores that look the same may differ from their own variant (with the Costco version being higher quality). It is in the "Costco_Story.pdf" file that you can read on their website.



Many stores now have warehouse packages such as multiple rolls of toilet paper at prices which seem to rival ours. But if you look closely, you’ll notice that ours is still the best value. While Costco’s toilet paper is two-ply, often theirs is only one-ply, and may have fewer feet per roll. It’s the same with all of our products, including bakery, produce, even electronics and appliances which often have additional features not available on the same item in other stores. So, while some prices may be equal, the value is not.



Knowing that these differences do exist, being an inveterate label reader, I suspected all warehouse stores used the same techniques to get low price goods and therefore tarred Costco with the same brush - it appears unfairly based on other posted comments. It's an easy mistake to make - I am not a retired Costco manager, or someone with 30 years of retail sales experience. I am an ordinary consumer who looks for good deals and fair treatment like anyone else. I have labored through economics courses at college, and at the "school of hard knocks", and one of the lessons that both teach which seems to be quite true is the proverbial "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. "



Costco has their own store brand, Kirkland if I recall correctly. Store brands "in general" have similar product, in some cases it is the same as name brand right down to packaging and ingredients, in others it ain't. It is my understanding that store brands are offered because (a) they get a better deal on production of their own label goods and hence lower cost (sometimes at the expensive of quality), and (b) can be priced lower than name brands and thus be attractive to consumers while still having a good profit margin.



Now what do I mean when I say, "At the expense of quality"? Sure, when Winn-Dixie produces their soda pop house brand, the canner uses the same machinery and processes so actual production quality of final goods is "the same" as the name brands, but to get that better deal they may use cheaper ingredients, different formulation, etc. Look at firearms - Sears had their house brands for years (J. C. Higgins, Ted Williams), just like Wards, Western Auto, etc. The guns were actually produced by the big-name mfgs - Savage, Marlin, Winchester, etc - and were often identical in appearance to an existing big-name product. Example: Sears 200 = Winchester 1200. Were they the same? Mechanically yes, fit/finish/materials "maybe". Sometimes the house brands had cheaper wood stocks, less polishing / coarser bluing, stamped rather than cut engraving, etc. These differences may result in the "house brand" being less valuable than the "name brand" variant down the road (15-40% less valuable, according to the Blue Book of Gun Values).



Just my view, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[fj40charles]

Mike Ellis,



Your examples above are about house brands in different stores and/or warehouse clubs. Never did I compare them to name brands.



You can buy Delo 400 at Costco or Rotella T at Sams. My wife uses Era laundray detergent from Sams. Are you going to tell me these are inferior to those that I can buy at a retail outlet? Just how different can motor oil or a name brand cordless drill (same model number) at a warehouse club be of "inferior" quality than a retailer? I buy bottled water from Costco (Ozarka brand). Is this "inferior" since I didn't buy it from a retailer? I don't have any issues with "house" brands if you know who makes them. For example, I use Napa gear oil because they're made by Valvoline.



How many car batteries have you seen that has a 3 year replacement warranty (no proration until after 3 years)? I purchased 2 batteries (honda accord and nissan altima) for around 39. 00 including tax that comes with a 3 year replacement. Can you find a better deal for the price?



I still not have found a better value than buying products from Costco. Best warranty I've seen and place where I'll continue to spend money.



Disclaimer: not affliated with any vendor, retailer, or warehouse. Just my 2 cents.



Charles

 

[fj40charles]

Mike Ellis,



Your quote about toilet paper (costco pdf) above is actually saying Costco's value is GREATER than other warehouse stores. This a direct slam at sams.



Charles

 

[Will24]

I read the how wal-mart is destroying america book and found it to be quite factual and indeed well written. The book is definitely worth reading if you have been debating picking up a copy





-Will

 

[WadePatton]

Re: Whip their arse

Originally posted by Champane Flight

I really think we could do without our military. If you think about it, all we have to do is put a Wal-mart and Mac donalds in Baghdad! They would all be obese and riding in the carts at Wally world within a year!

The "westernization" of most foriegn countries (especially those that were fairly healthy) has already caused "fat american" health problems all over the world. Obesity, AO Diabetes, Heart Disease--now infest places where they were non-existent before.



Soon we can really screw 'em up with WallMarks and HomoDepots.



I got a HUGE kick out of the fact that I had to step around 5-gal buckets in the floor at HomoDepot the other day. The buckets were catching water from the leaking roof!Oo.

 

[Mike Ellis]

fj40charles,



Didn't mean to imply you were comparing house brands to name brands, if you notice I was replying to willyslover. Also I pointed out in my message that the Costco statement showed their products (specificall the toilet paper example) to be higher quality.



Am I going to tell you that "name brands" you buy at Sam's or Costco etc like Delo, Ozarka, Era are inferior to what you buy at a normal retail outlet? Without testing individual products, all I can tell you is MAYBE - just like I said before, "tain't necessarily so. "



I have said it before, and will say it again - you can't get something for nothing. Every product manufactured, in the USA or elsewhere, has some production price that determines what it can be profitably sold for. If a huge store chain like Wal-Mart or Costco buys a billion units, they can get a lower price due to economy of scale. That explains some of the lower pricing you see in the stores, but there are other factors as well - the closeouts and overstocks that were discussed previously, cost-reduced versions of familiar products, etc.



Willyslover says that Costco doesn't use such techniques, and their website seems to back that up. But Costco's own website documentation points out that some of the electronic products in their stores may have features that are not present on versions sold elsewhere. So if Joe buys TV "X3" at Costco, and Jim buys TV "X3" at Sam's, they may not be exactly the same eh? Gee, that sounds kinda like what I've been saying in this thread.



Maybe Costco really is the only white-hat hero in the warehouse club sales market, and only Sam's and Super Walmart and the others do the "same product, lower specs" routine. I don't know. But I do think I have presented more than enough information to show that yes, indeed, products which are "the same" *can be different* at the warehouse store than they are at a "normal" retail outlet.



Not trying to slam anybody or their buying choices, just calling things the way I see it.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Mike Ellis

fj40charles,





Am I going to tell you that "name brands" you buy at Sam's or Costco etc like Delo, Ozarka, Era are inferior to what you buy at a normal retail outlet? Without testing individual products, all I can tell you is MAYBE - just like I said before, "tain't necessarily so. "

Mike try out this logic. I have a friend that sells vitamins via a multi-level marketing company. He says they are the highest quality you can buy. They cost major $$$ of course they have the high $$ sport figures on the payroll promoting them. Plus they have to support paying every person on the food chain (sales chain). I buy Sam's club brand vitamins with Walmart name on them for a fraction of the $$$ and they are also pharmacy grade. Since most of us are not going to spend the $$ to analyze the content of the vitamins we buy I have more faith that the largest company in the world (Walmart) would make sure their supplier provided the quality advertised product that Walmart was putting their name on before I would trust a Multi-level marketing company. I know from talking to my buddy that was the National Sales Manager for Lucent handling Walmart that Walmart will drop a supplier if they do not provide the quality they require. Plus if Walmart is caught selling something under their name that does not measure up they have way more to lose in potential $$$ and good will. It is just plain old simple logic. Since you can only believe half of what you see yourself and nothing you read I have found it is best to use logic.

 

[WadePatton]

Yes, some things at Walbarf are just about the same as what you buy elsewhere, but a large part if not majority of the crap they sell is "house brand" or "house model" of a regular name brand.



I don't get the "Damn the whole world, I'm going to save $2" attitude from citizens of a country who are generally overweight, divorced, and in DEBT.



I mean if you're making such smart buying/budgeting decisions, why the heck aren't you out of the hole?



[answer] Uh, Uh, cuz I HAD to have all this JUNK and the Car note is 0. 0% and Discover is paying ME... And now you should feel like a fish on a line.



Whoops I digressed.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by WadePatton

Yes, some things at Walbarf are just about the same as what you buy elsewhere, but a large part if not majority of the crap they sell is "house brand" or "house model" of a regular name brand.



I don't get the "Damn the whole world, I'm going to save $2" attitude from citizens of a country who are generally overweight, divorced, and in DEBT.



I mean if you're making such smart buying/budgeting decisions, why the heck aren't you out of the hole?



[answer] Uh, Uh, cuz I HAD to have all this JUNK and the Car note is 0. 0% and Discover is paying ME... And now you should feel like a fish on a line.



Whoops I digressed.

LMAO :-laf I done saw some of them there people just yesterday when I bought some junk at the local Walmart.

 

[willyslover]

Mike. . I understand your skepticism and do not fault you for it. . I too am a skeptic



back to Business 101 LOL



I'll just state for the record the Costco plays no games whatsoever in their buying practices and that what they do is try to have the highest quality items available without exception... the are all about giving value to the member...



if you look at the model #'s they will be different. . because the have added items included with the item or if they are the same there will be another item attached to give additional value. . but in all cases they will not buy a lower quality or bottom of the line product.



on private label product... that is an area where most retailers/grocers will make additional profits buy lower quality in the private label goods and marginally lower prices for it... in Costco's case the Same CEO I spoke of earlier has a mandate to the buyers that Costco's private label will meet or exceed [and in most cases far exceeds] the highest rated name brand available AND be at least 20% lower in price



Costco will go to war with vendors who play games. . I remember when a National brand Cola Co. raised prices way high ... like a 20% price increase for no reason other than they could. . Costco quit selling their brand for a period of time and forced the price back down as they are the #1 seller in the nation of that product... another example is a #1 national brand chip refused to package a larger bag again giving additional value to the member by like 15% so Costco quit buying for several years. . that co lost several million in sales do to that decision . . guess what they now package it like Costco asked in the first place. . and it is one of their most successful product introductions in their history..... those are the type of things that Costco frequently does to go to bat for the member. . again their profit didn't increase per item do to these decisions but total sales increase = additional profits and the Value of the membership to the member increased.



I could go on and on [like the frozen chicken waste now removed rather than still attached = lbs charged and the fresh Salmom trimmed fully again no excess fat or waste = lbs=price per lb. ] but you get the idea the lengths Costco goes and it is all about Co. INTEGRITY !!



there endith the leson

 

[WadePatton]

Originally posted by willyslover

could. . Costco quit selling their brand for a period of time and forced the price back down as they are the #1 seller in the nation of that product... another example is a #1 national brand chip refused to package a larger bag again giving additional value to the member by like 15% so Costco quit buying for several years. . that co lost several million in sales do to that decision

Ya see, there's one of my problems with MEGA VENDORS. They have the leverage to dictate the product and behavior of the manufacturer. We give them that leverage by MEGA shopping. Yes it's good in some ways, but it can be equally bad.

Give me variety not quantity.



An illustration. Say for some reason the whole world starts driving Cummins-powered pickups. And this empowers Gayle Banks to become the Sam Waldron of CTD accessories and power parts. Then Piers, DD, EEP, Wildcat, PE, etc. HAVE to sell their stuff through MEGA-BANKS if they survive at all. Guess what happens to the product lines? Mr. Banks decides what is available and how much it is as we have no place else to go. hooo boy.



No offense to Banks and his pricey stuff.



If you haven't gotten it yet, our current vendors ARE the "Mom and Pops" of aftermarket diesel goodies. The size of the market prevents the above scenario--at this point in time...