Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Timing off, I can't take it anymore!!!

[Six_Man_Diesel]

Alright, I know my timing is in pitiful condition, the white smoke is driving me freakin crazy. MY question is where is the cheapest place to buy the kit so I can set it? Or someone out there might be kind enough to let me borrow thiers But I doubt anyone would do that, and I don't blame you. Also, I can set the engine at TDC, no problem, but what do you have to do after that, pull the gear off the front of the pump, set the dial indicator on the pump, then do you turn the pump and set it while the gear is off?? I've never messed with timing on a setup like this, only on the big 855 cummins with the cam followers. Wish I could just add or remove gaskets, that would be great. Any reply would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks,

Willie

 

[Briar Hopper]

Willie, I got my kit from Snap-On Tools, it's complete with everything you need except a barring tool that fits into the flywheel for turning the engine over. (I guess you already have one?) The barring tool is also available from Snap-On. The kit was about $200, if I remember correctly, includes a dial indicator, pump sleeve adapter(for mounting the dial indicator to #1 on the pump), and mini-gear puller.

I think SPX Miller Tool Co. also has a kit, not sure what all comes in the kit.

www.spxmiller.com

 

[illflem]

After you get your timing kit here's instructions on how to use it http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1994/18-10-94a.htm

Timing is a one shot deal then forget it if done right. Many folks are better off to pay the $200 or so that a shop will charge rather than buy the tools.

 

[Six_Man_Diesel]

Thanks for the info fellas, I am gonna get the kit from snap on I think, maybe I can do enough work with it around here that it will pay for itself.



Thanks again,

Willie

 

[WDaniels]

200. 00 dollars! The snap-on dealers want 595 for it up here. If you want a barring too for about 30 bucks call "Northwest Cummins". That is the price he quoted me. I think it is in Washington. There is someone on the 24v site that turned me on to this dealer. Maybe if he reads this post he will chime in with a number. Their customer service is second to none.

WD

 

[CumminsPower98]

I bought my SP500 from Snap-On through their website for $221. 54 including shipping. It was very worth it for me since I was able to time about 4 trucks with it and even got paid for one of them.

 

[Reb.B]

no, its right around 200, ... 600 is for the entire cummins kit. But u don't need the kit to get it close or put it back to stock. just get it at TDC1, then pull the gear, then pull the nut off the back of the pump by the gov (on the side) and pull the platic stopper out of the plug, then move the pump slightly till the plug slides in the hole over the lever inside. torque the nut and gear on and pull the plstic and turn it over and put the plug back in. Pretty simple, and it saves u $200.

 

[rjones]

Look on Ebay I've seen them there for a good price... .

 

[esommer2500]

I thought my money was better spent having a shop do it with a flash timer. It cost me about $90, but I know that it was done right. JMHO.



Eric

 

[illflem]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that a flash timer was only good for checking the timing. If you need to adjust the timing you're back to the dial indicator and a higher bill.

 

[Dan_69GTX]

Ok - your wrong - make that a MUCH MUCH MUCH higer bill!



(sorry - couldn't resist that)



What I found is that most shops will NOT adjust the timing from the factory specs - hense it is a doit your self job.



Besides that - I'd rather shoot myself than let someone screw up - I mean work on my truck - I'd rather screw it up myself.



Dan

 

[Andy Redmond]

Willie:



Sometimes the pumps are off enough that it requires the pump to be pulled, sent to a pump shop, re-calibrated and timed (reasonably rare).



In my example, the reason being that the pump was set up retarded (11 vs 14 deg... surmising until the pump shop verifys this) and the timing pin and true tdc were off about 5 degrees (retarded).



On this particular truck the dial indicator said it was set at 16 deg. (5. 0 mm of lift), but it suffered from the retarded timing symptoms.



To bump it a couple would be 18 deg. You see where I'm going, at some point we are diminishing returns. . until the pump is back in its spec.



The advice without the dial indicator works too. If the pump was within one degree of data plate timing at least you'd be "stock" again.



Good luck

Andy

 

[Reb.B]

thats BS! timing is timing, u don't have to pull the pump! the only calibration is the spill port on the barrells and they are set with the two nuts on each one.

 

[bighammer]

As I understand it,(and if I don't understand it, I hope somebody will correct me) the two nuts hold the relation of the barrel's spill port to the plunger. By adding or removing shims, the lift to port closure can be altered. After the #1 is set to specs, the rest are set in the firing order exactly 60 degrees apart, timing each pumping chamber to each other.



If you loosen the nuts and twist the barrel flange, you will change the effective stroke of that plunger. That is how each chamber is set to put out the same amount of fuel to each injector.



After the timing of each chamber to each other, and output of each chamber is set, timing for the pump is set. (still on the calibration stand) The "timing tooth" (or whatever it's called) on the pump is locked in the proper position. With the engine at TDC, and the pump in its correct position, you lock it down tight without letting anything slip.



Willie, there ain't no way you're gona turn that pump without the gear on it. The kit gives you a dial indicator so you can bar the engine over to where the pump should be,(using the plunger lift charts) then pull the gear and move the engine to where it needs to be. You clean up the mating surfaces, and put them back together.



Give Piers a call and find out when his tool kit will be available. I'm betting it will be cheaper and better.

 

[T. Baker]

Ok here is how I did mine with no special tools except a gear puller: Turned engine forward against the tdc pin by hand on the front damper. I then put the pump pin in place. I then removed the gear, then I put a Starret magnetic angle finder ( get it at any hardware store) and put it on the danper with it on 0* and C clamped it on. I then pulled the timing pin out of the cam gear and backed the engine up quite a bit and then turned it forward to - 1. 5*. Locked the pump gear back up and removed the timing pins and now had + 1. 5* over stock. No special tools. Hoever the enging was out of the truck when I did it. I don't know if there is room enough with the engine in place. You need to look really carfully at the degree whee. You could mark the damper using math and the diameter of the damper etc.

 

[Sled Puller]

Cummins shops around here set timing for $100. Somebody who is good, should not take 30 minutes.



Be careful, if you get it too high, kiss the head gasket good bye. Piers likes 16 on stock gaskets. We just did one from 12 to 17, and oh my does it run better!



Make sure all the oil is cleaned off the shaft and gear, or it could jump time later on.

 

[R.ebel]

Timing

Use caution here guys.

The timing pin is known to be off as much as 2 deg. from the factory. If you suspect that your timing has slipped then definatley do not rely on the timing pin for locating TDC. The best technique for finding true TDC is to use the piston stop method.



IMHO it is going to take even the fastest mechanic in the east more than a mere 30 minutes to ACCURATLEY set timing.

 

[JohnE]

It took a very skilled mechanic around 90 minutes to reset my timing. He removed the covers and dropped #1 exhaust valve to determine TDC. He went on to set my timing and verify it with an electronic spill port timing unit.

 

[Bandit1]

jsut had mine done yesterday. took all of 1hr plus some BSing with the mechanic (he owned a 95). cost $69 which seemed very good to me. stock he said mine was set between 8 and 9, now it is up to 16, damn what a difference, sounds better, and runs better. wish i had done it sooner