Timken Clutch Release bearing, NV5600

[ranger 393]

I cannot advise you on the Phoenix Friction clutches. I repleaced mine with the South Bend 1947-okhd. I will say that the transmission jack you use is going to make the job alot easier. I used a very large trans jack, that is adjustable in 3 different directions. I placed 4 inch blocks under the front wheels to allow enough room for the shift tower to clear the floor. I also placed a floor jack under the front of the engine to keep the front of the engine from tilting forward. Use loooooong extensions and you can set under the truck at the rear of the transmission and remove the bolts once you have your jack supporting the transmission weight. This worked well for me, just my $.02 .

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Try to clean up the threads with a tap/thread chaser and see how it looks. A bolt will never clean them up good enough.

I've got a restorer kit on order, Breaking it loose felt normal, but it's the threads at the very beginning that required a wrench to turn them out. Everything else was by hand.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Are they adjacent??

if you're referring to the hole on the right, I believe that was for balancing, or maybe a dowel for non on road applications with the engine.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Ouch.

Not a machinist. take a look at a good hole and in particular how deep the threads really go vs how long the bolt threads did go in. Can you modify a new longer bolt, cut to new length and take advantage of the deeper previously unused threads? You'd need to make sure the bolt doesn't bottom out and not fully clamp the FW and do it's job.

I'll let a machinist type comment on other thread repair options.

Gary

That may be an option, Looking at the flywheel the provision for the holes is pretty thick, and the bolts aren't very long at all, It's a bit concerning how little of a bite it had and that all the bad threads are at the very beginning. I'll share some pics of the bolt lengths later and try to get a depth measurement of the holes.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I cannot advise you on the Phoenix Friction clutches. I repleaced mine with the South Bend 1947-okhd. I will say that the transmission jack you use is going to make the job alot easier. I used a very large trans jack, that is adjustable in 3 different directions. I placed 4 inch blocks under the front wheels to allow enough room for the shift tower to clear the floor. I also placed a floor jack under the front of the engine to keep the front of the engine from tilting forward. Use loooooong extensions and you can set under the truck at the rear of the transmission and remove the bolts once you have your jack supporting the transmission weight. This worked well for me, just my $.02 .

I appreciate the tips, I wish I would've set up better before taking it out. It wasn't graceful and I dammaged my 4x4 harness.

On clutches; can you talk to me objectively why you would avoid Phoenix Friction's products? What clutch were you using and for what application? I chose this clutch because of the materials, I want it to last a while.

 

[mwilson]

if you're referring to the hole on the right, I believe that was for balancing, or maybe a dowel for non on road applications with the engine.

No, I wondered if the two damaged threaded holes were beside each other or are they a ways apart. In other words is there a good bolt hole or two in between the damaged holes???
I realize there are a few blind unthreaded holes on the crank.
Makes a difference as to the chances of a good thread cleaning in two holes holding up over time in my opinion. Side by side would worry me more then them being opposite of each other...
Does that make more sense?

 

[GCroyle]

Does that make more sense?

Mike

If this starts to make sense what fun is that?

I was still wondering if adjacent was a Cummins thread type?

Don't worry about me I got really stupid and decided to R&R my Airstream 7 way cable. I think they built the frame around it.

Gary

 

[mwilson]

Mike

If this starts to make sense what fun is that?

I was still wondering if adjacent was a Cummins thread type?


Gary

No fun at all!!

Adjacent would be a good name for a thread pitch, I kinda like that!!!

 

[mwilson]

I would also purchase new bolts.......

 

[Darkbloodmon]

No, I wondered if the two damaged threaded holes were beside each other or are they a ways apart. In other words is there a good bolt hole or two in between the damaged holes???
I realize there are a few blind unthreaded holes on the crank.
Makes a difference as to the chances of a good thread cleaning in two holes holding up over time in my opinion. Side by side would worry me more then them being opposite of each other...
Does that make more sense?

I see what your saying, Yes the two holes that had issues are adjacent, the left most one that is pictured is the only one the new bolts are having issues threading into. I intended to clean out all the holes to be safe (hopefully).

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I would also purchase new bolts.......

New bolts came with the South Bend roller flywheel.

 

[Tuesdak]

New bolts came with the South Bend roller flywheel.

Compare them to OEM and maybe get new from Cummins ... I wasn't impressed with the SB pressure plate bolts and neither was the installer.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Measurements:

Old bolts 40mm Head to tip with a 16-17mm extended length through the OEM flywheel

New bolts 43mm Head to tip with an 18mm extended length through the new south bend flywheel.

Crank hole depth 27mm

Old bolts have dimples in the head, new bolts don't

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Compare them to OEM and maybe get new from Cummins ... I wasn't impressed with the SB pressure plate bolts and neither was the installer.

On visual inspection of the SouthBend PP bolts I would agree but I can't say more than that, I have a set that came with the PhoenixFriction clutch kit. They have red locktite pre installed on the threads, They "feel" better in the hand so I'll go with those provided they are the same thread. The OEM PP bolts looked like a 10mm but they were slightly smaller but not a 9mm. It was an SAE size something/16ths I forget. But the heads were a good bit smaller.

I forgot to mention that the clutch and components that came out was an OEM Mopar MFG by LUK, It's the standard organic from factory.

 

[GCroyle]

I bet if you look closely on the Cummins OE bolt heads by Kamax you'll see two "features" 12.9 for the metric grade designation and the slots in the head. 12.9 easy a darn good alloy fastener but what do the notches in the head do? I researched this years ago and IIRC they are a design feature that somehow gest compressed and act like springs pushing apart and maintaining a tight bolt. I just took a quick look, didn't find anything worth pointing to. Can you use a 10.9 grade for a 12.9? Cummins decided 12.9 was required. So are your replacement bolts 10.9 or 12.9?

But clutch cover bolts have a bit of mystery to them, sometimes.

You need to look at how the cover is centered on the FW, dowel pins or special shouldered pilot bolts? Got D-pins? match the grade and size pretty good to go. But a clutch w/o D-pins uses shouldered bolts to locates the cover on the FW by having a couple snug (smaller) holes in the cover and dowel holes in the FW for maybe 1/4" or so. The shoulder, pilot hole in the cover and the pilot hole in the FW all work together to center the cover on the FW.

Now if you use non shouldered std bolts on an application that uses the shouldered cover bolt system nothing is locating the cover, vibration is likely.

The applied thread compound just makes sure the bolt has the locking compound already on it. It's frequently called a patch in fastener speak.

 

[BigPapa]

Bolt length is measured from under the head to the tip.

 

[CVR222NV]

Compare them to OEM and maybe get new from Cummins ... I wasn't impressed with the SB pressure plate bolts and neither was the installer.

I have a SB SDD3250-GK-ORG dual disk organic and have it out of my truck now. Below are the pressure plate bolts. Markings on side are H-K USA 3/8 - 16 x34. Were these what you were concerned about? If so do you remember what you used as a replacement?

 

[Tuesdak]

@CVR222NV Yes those bolts, but, NV5600 clutch pressure plate bolts appear different than yours. The installer used the old OEM clutch bolts as they appeared to be better quality. (and didn't notice a missing transmission dowel pin so we got to do another clutch way too soon.)

 

[ranger 393]

I appreciate the tips, I wish I would've set up better before taking it out. It wasn't graceful and I dammaged my 4x4 harness.

On clutches; can you talk to me objectively why you would avoid Phoenix Friction's products? What clutch were you using and for what application? I chose this clutch because of the materials, I want it to last a while.

Sorry, im not saying I would avoid it. I was just stating that I don't know anything about the phoenix clutch to give any advise on it.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Sorry, im not saying I would avoid it. I was just stating that I don't know anything about the phoenix clutch to give any advise on it.

No worries, I'll follow up on how it is when everything is said and done in this thread. If I remember, I chose Phoenix because it wasn't a big name in the Diesel industry or as visual when you think of Diesel performance brands. They've got plenty of experience in the commercial HD side and that was really enough for me, no nonsense, no hype, proven. I'm the eldest of three and no stranger to being a guineapig.