Timken Clutch Release bearing, NV5600

[Darkbloodmon]

Also, can you remind me on what you used for transmission oil?[/QUOTE]

Amsoil Manual Synchromesh

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Standard Transmission and Gear of Fort Worth TX is starting tear down today. Should have news by Tuesday the latest.

Pure Diesel of Kernersville, NC removed the trans and clutch assembly, They didn't find anything irregular about the clutch assembly, everything was assembled as it should have been. Discs were not flipped, Fork was in the right orientation, Pressure plate had even fingers. They really did a stand out job packaging it for shipping. Wish I would've known about this shop before. They took me seriously and followed my instructions to a T in the word document specifying exactly what I needed done and any relevant information needed to do the job.

 

[bcbender]

Why are you shipping the T case? It's extra freight weight there and back and they don't need that to reman the trans.

And yes I used AMS OIL MTF with the overfill of 1qt after putting the check plug back in.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Why are you shipping the T case? It's extra freight weight there and back and they don't need that to reman the trans.

And yes I sued AMS OIL MTF with the overfill of 1qt after putting the check plug back in.

View attachment 130814

I wanted to have it gone through at 230K miles, I'm making plans to start commercial transport and didn't want any surprises. Freight is insane but I really want to burry this power train issue and have peace of mind. I've said it before, I'm tired of working on this truck. Everything has been gone through at this point besides the engine internals and body.

On the over fill I mentioned I was 1 quart over with 7 total, They recommended I use 9 total with my cooler setup. This is 3 quarts over stock. I'll be following this recommendation since its from the horses mouth.

 

[bcbender]

yeah, I was about 9 also with the fast coolers installed, First fill, I filled it per the OEM method, then installed the fill plug and put another qt in the top. I also made a custom dipstick that I could lower into the top corner port of the L cooler to check the fluid level during oil changes as it is not possible to check via the OEM fill plug when overfilled.

 

[GCroyle]

Make sure when trans comes back before installation that both of the dowel sleeves between engine adaptor and from of NV5600 are accounted for.

Good luck

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Good luck

I need all of it with my track record.

 

[Tuesdak]

I wanted to have it gone through at 230K miles, I'm making plans to start commercial transport and didn't want any surprises. Freight is insane but I really want to burry this power train issue and have peace of mind. I've said it before, I'm tired of working on this truck. Everything has been gone through at this point besides the engine internals and body.

Get. Used To. It.

Commercial Transport is a lot of miles and time. You will be wearing out things and working on the truck a lot. The little expensive things like an ECM to needing a engine/trans yesterday. We took over a route from a 5.9 Cummins when the owner couldn’t afford the ECM they blew. One engine later we gave it up after running over a couple Elk at the same time. Your luck may vary, but, you will be working on it a lot as even oil changes come up quickly.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

The little expensive things like an ECM

That reminds me I do need to source an 03 Six speed ECM for a back up.

Commercial Transport is a lot of miles and time. You will be wearing out things and working on the truck a lot.

I don't doubt the wear and tear of commercial transport, but in the three years of catch up repairs, I've not been stranded from an on road failure. I'm not sweating the small consumable stuff, but outside of a starter or ECM I've gone through just about everything that was on its way out after the previous 4 owners and 207K hard miles.

Murphy's law will always stand, but I can say with confidence that I've not left much for imagination.

 

[bcbender]

well if it makes you feel any better, my 04 was really decently problem free, ya I spent money fixing things like wiring, fan clutch, etc.. Trans / clutch was the most expensive, but trans was due to a undiagnosed and failed pilot bearing.. it went 40k miles w/o a pilot brg and still was running strong. The 305/555 engine is one tough cookie, leave it near stock and use it and you will get many reliable miles of use. when I sold mine with 195k on it. It never left me anywhere. and was reliable which is more than I can say about my friend's 05...

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Tear down complete. Drum roll *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Paraphrased from my call earlier today : Pitting and indentation on 3rd and Reverse gears, All engagement teeth on the gears were in excellent condition maintaining their points and not rounded off. 3rd gear got hot at some point (previous owners towing at stock lube levels). T case sprockets have indentations and pitting from chain wear. Overall condition of the trans and T-case was excellent for its age and previous usage with a 5th wheel.

Transmission : 3rd and Reverse gears are being replaced. Full bearing, race, seal, and synchro job.

T-Case : Sprockets and chain being replaced. Full bearing, race, seal, and synchro job.

All parts are in stock except the T case chain which is a day away.

2200 Out the door parts and labor. I requested the old parts be labeled and returned back to me. I'll post additional picks when I receive them.

I forgot to ask about the condition of the synchro's, but they're all being replaced for a reason. Overall I'm happy with the tear down, I was expecting more carnage and a much higher rebuild price. In comparison to the quotes I was getting from shops in the South east (3500 - 6500). NV56 4x4 swaps down here alone are 4-6k with the only guarantee is that "it came out of a running truck". Pictures below.

 

[NIsaacs]

3rd gear got hot at some point (previous owners towing at stock lube levels) Quote".


Or, more than likely, 4 previous owners let it get low or poor maintenance. They say the same thing about the Getrag. 334k miles on mine, standard fill or my NV5600, 365k miles on standard fill. I do change oil every 36k miles.

That is an awesome price for rebuilding two gearbox's, good choice. What oil do they recommend?

 

[bcbender]

That's a great price........ Not to many hard parts to be changed out so that's good.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

That's a great price........ Not to many hard parts to be changed out so that's good.

Definitely, getting it down there was and is a bear with freight, If I had a second vehicle that could've moved it down I would've done it myself.

Glad I sent the Tcase as well. I was looking around doing research on transport companies and I came across a Facebook page for one and casually scrolled through their pictures of drivers and loads and someone doing RV transport with a 3rd gen 3500 DRW had a Tcase explode on them taking out fuel lines and burning the truck down. Drivers made it out unharmed according to the post.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Bench test passed. Both units shipping out of Fort Worth, TX tomorrow morning. Delivery by Friday afternoon or Monday morning the latest.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Got my truck back yesterday from Pure Diesel Kernersville, NC. The trans feels really tight or sharp; night and day foreign in comparison to what it was before. I test drove it around Kernersville and in the shop lot for the (low speed engagement noises) and I don't have any of the issues I had before it was rebuilt. But it will really take some time getting used to. I don't want to speak to soon about all being well until I get some more miles it, but so far im really happy with it. 12mo or 12K mi is the warranty.

There was an issue during transport from STG in Fort Worth TX back to Pure Diesel Kernersville, NC. Some how the pallet became un-secured and the transfer case rolled or dropped off damaging the fins on the outside of the case. The paper work attached to the pallet with the warranty card was also lost, I called STG and explained the situation, got copies of the paper work and have a new warranty card on the way in the mail to fill out. It's most likely cosmetic but notable, I've not given 4x4 a run through yet. If you look closely at the first picture you'll notice the lower stud for the slave cylinder on the bell housing is missing(transport?). Pure Diesel took note of it when I pointed it out and removed the studs and put in place Allen head bolts. Pictures below of how Pure Diesel Kernersville received the units.

I did receive all the parts back from tear down that were replaced as requested from STG here are the pictures I took last night below. These parts are from a 232,977mi NV5600 and NP271D transfer case. All original from factory.

First picture is of the full parts display

These are the brass synchronizer rings.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Deep Grove Roller bearings
NSK 6209, Peer 6011, Peer 6211, Peer 6212
You may be able to see in these next few pictures that all of the roller bearings are Chinese except one NSK(Japanese). Peer bearing a Chinese mfg. Didn't take long to find them on google. They're a bearing mfg. that's been around since the early 40s that specializes in agricultural and heavy equipment bearings. Squired by SKF in 08' but continuing to operate independently as a brand. No complaints, they all feel good, the pictures don't do them justice to how massive they are.

Tapered Roller Bearings
Majority of these were Timken branded mfg. in the USA with the exception of two French mfg.
All appeared to be ok. The cup on the smaller roller bearing tree stack is a Torrington needle roller, a Timken subsidiary mfg.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Taper Roller Bearing races
All were Timken Branded USA mfg. except one being Brazil mfg. I believe its the larger one of the bunch. Some wear on the races but all it all very clean and well aged.

Last pic of the bearings in their races. The one with the dented cage may be from disassembly, no binding or issues with it in hand.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Gears 3rd 4th and Reverse( not in order)

Transfer Case Sprockets
Pitting is enough to catch your nail, couldn't find a mfg. on them but I noticed the edges were pretty sharp.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I wanted to say a sincere thank you to all those who have contributed to this long... thread. I really appreciate the advise, troubleshooting and help I've received. Even if I didn't take your advise, and regretted it later, I appreciate the "told you so's". I sure have regrets.... but maybe my life has more character with it. At the very least learn from mine and take what you will from my experience.

I'm still skeptical that this is the end of my drivetrain issues (knock on wood) given all that I've been through trying to resolve it.

Here is a short condensed summary of what happened. There are a few other side tracks but this is the core of it.

TLDR:

1. Started out looking for a Timken Clutch release bearing P/N. Conclusion : forget about sourcing your own parts for a kit. If you're buying a clutch replacement kit don't challenge the mfg. warranty on parts.

2. Trans removed in my driveway 1st time. Engine Rebuild pop scare with the crank threads on the rear main side being nearly stripped from the last clutch job. This induced paranoia of checking every bolt hole with a thread cleaner and repair kit. Conclusion: Threads were saved, have a thread repair/cleaner kit on hand for surprises like this especially if you're doing this in your driveway.

3. Trying to be proactive and thorough about this clutch replacement job and taking care of the seals while its out on the transmission. Input seal and output seal. This is unknown territory opening up the housing and hard to say weather it helped me or hurt me. I'm leaning on hurt me. Conclusion: Don't touch it if it ain't leaking, especially if its got shims behind it.

(this is a joke, don't do the following) If you're nervous about it spray some flex seal around the perimeter of the input housing, then call Phill Swift and tell him what it works on.

4. Transmission installed for the first time with the Phoenix friction Kevlar single disk clutch, SBC roller bearing flywheel and a SBC adjustable clutch hydro. SBC hydro used since the phoenix friction hydro started leaking while it was on the shelf in my garage for a year. The SBC hydro can be used on stock applications. Rear main seal scare leak that turned out to be oil spilled on the intake shelf taking the exact path a rear main leak would. The single disk is now grinding and chattering like a dual disk. Then proceed to test, diagnose and question everything without removing the trans. Conclusion: not definitive

5. Trans pulled for a second time in my driveway. Hot spot found on pressure plate in one area that corresponds to the hot spot in the respective area on the fly wheel and and perimeter of the clutch disk. Phoenix friction is contacted, further testing, diagnosing and measuring is done before it is shipped off to Phoenix Friction for a whooping professional examination revealing, Paraphrased - "Nothing is wrong that we can see with our product, this clutch is too aggressive for your old transmission" I start the warranty return process for a refund. Conclusion : heed advice about clutch mfg. for your truck; go with the known and don't stick your neck out when you don't have a full service shop. Additionally doing business with a company that deals with fleet and corporate accounts will bite you in the ass on customer service. Phoenix Friction shafts me, no full refund for not using and returning all their components, my SBC flywheel that was damaged from their clutch is not useable nor will they cover the damages their product caused.

6. South bend Dual disk full organic kit installed, Transmission install number two in my driveway. Call a friend over to help and while under the truck trying to stab the transmission in it tips on the Harbor Fright trans jack falling over on his ankle pinning him underneath the assembly. Full stop. Family and friends are called and I take him to urgent care. By a miracle nothing is broken, only bruises. Got him home and on ice. Update on him : He's doing great full recovery, his insurance didn't cover the x-rays because the nearest urgent care we went to was out of network so I covered that 600.00 bill in full. Additional friends are called to now pick up the dropped transmission from underneath the truck and stab it back in before a bad thunder storm rolls in. This was completed but in frustration of lining up threads on a dowel hole were stripped pulling the trans to the adapter plate. Conclusion: If once you can't succeed in installing a medium duty transmission in your driveway stop and consider what's at risk and what it's really worth.

7. Shifting issues ensue on the new South Bend Dual Disk Clutch. But no noise or un accounted for chatter like the Phoenix friction single disk. Down shifting into 4th and 3rd grinding and not going in. Popping and plucking rolling into 1st 2nd and Reverse. South Bend called and notified about this issue. Beginning to question and test everything: Short Shifter, Hydro, Bleeding a pre-bleed hydro. Nothing is found to not be functioning as designed. Truck is taken to a SBC installer and dealer MB Diesel Performance of Gold Hill NC. They put about a 100 miles on it and can't feel or notice any thing significant until the day I pick it up and test drive it and it does everything I said it was doing. Truck gets back and hypothesizing begins on the only element of the drive train that's not been looked at the transmission. The hypothesis : A dual disk clutch assembly with its additional weight and moving parts puts more load and stress on a higher mileage transmission synchro's causing it to shift harshly or not at all. Plans are made for a rebuild at STG in Fort Worth TX, Different shop is used to remove and replace the transmission. Conclusion: Do your research on local diesel shops and ask around. If a shop has more experience with automatics don't rely on their diagnostics for a manual transmission.

8. Truck dropped off in better hands at Pure Diesel of Kernersville, NC. Trans is pulled, (Clutch inspected, nothing of note, everything was assembled as it should have been no hot spots or wear, this confirms a mfg. defect on Phoenix Frictions clutch kit) shipped to Texas, Rebuilt, Shipped back, installed and driven home. Conclusion: Currently pending, but promising.