TIPM Question, Bob and Sag please take a look.

[mwilson]

Good Morning,



Have a Sterling Bullet that came in on the hook yesterday, I went out nosing around to see what happened.



TIPM is just smoked. Got the history and the TIPM was changed at another Sterling Dealer when the truck had 28,000 miles on it. Well it would appear that is was just a parts replacer that changed it as at 46,000 miles it has repeated the failure the same way according to the owner.



Could any interested parties have a look at the burned area and see if you know what circuits might have existed there before it all fused itself together?? And what would generate that kind of a short without something tripping first???



The truck has a flat body with extra lights, I instructed the tech to check all the wiring back there. Also to pay special attention to the trailer power feed.



The customer was not towing a trailer and has not for some time.



Please have a look... I'll keep it in the office in case you need anymore pictures (if I can stand the smell... :-laf)

Mike.

 

[GCroyle]

Mike,

Actually, its quite simple to analyze.

The TIPM and its components are filled with smoke at final assembly. This smoke cools the components and acts as a hyper speed neuro network to undulate the negative ions to the positive protons, good so far? This smoke also acts as an overload sensor.

When it senses an overload, the smoke escapes saving itself as the smoke runs like heck to get out of the colliding ions and protons which are now Lost In Space.

Any time I can help Mike, just post.

Gary

 

[mwilson]

Mike,



Actually, its quite simple to analyze.



The TIPM and its components are filled with smoke at final assembly. This smoke cools the components and acts as a hyper speed neuro network to undulate the negative ions to the positive protons, good so far? This smoke also acts as an overload sensor.



When it senses an overload, the smoke escapes saving itself as the smoke runs like heck to get out of the colliding ions and protons which are now Lost In Space.



Any time I can help Mike, just post.



Gary

Gary,



Thank you for the detailed explanation... ... . Filling it with smoke at the assembly point is sheer genius, like putting the rotten egg smell in propane.



I am printing this and taking it to the shop foreman... .....



Mike.

 

[Prairie Dog]

The owner needs to install some relays to carry the load or this is just going to happen again and again.

 

[GCroyle]

Mike,

Sheer genius it might be, but I stole this one from some guy trying to explain how a CDI (motorcycle ignition black box) works on YouTube.

Gary

 

[GCroyle]

On an actual serious note, I've seen the posts about members TIPM savers and frankly didn't give it much thought until our (now sold) '07 smoked its TIPM.

What I have seen are factory made "savers" from Hopkins for example. These universal units are in their extensive towing connection and harness catalog. Could one of these work as an off the shelf TIMP saver?

 

[mwilson]

On an actual serious note, I've seen the posts about members TIPM savers and frankly didn't give it much thought until our (now sold) '07 smoked its TIPM.



What I have seen are factory made "savers" from Hopkins for example. These universal units are in their extensive towing connection and harness catalog. Could one of these work as an off the shelf TIMP saver?

My worry is that it may not be related to trailer towing at all. That TIPM carries a lot of functions, I am simply amazed that something doesn't trip out long before it cooks that badly. I'm hoping that one or more of the Mopar Tech guys may have seen enough similar failures to say "That is a failure pattern that I have seen before and ______ caused it"... .



Also the fact that the failures are almost 20,000 miles apart in a non-towing situation is a concern. I just stressed again to the shop that the rear constant trailer power wiring needs to be examined closely.

Had the hood up, there is no wiring molestation or add-ons under the hood or in the cab of any kind.



Mike.

 

[HBarlow]

Mike,

If someone doesn't have a quick answer try browsing the Ram body builder website. The Ram cab and chassis which a Sterling is/was designed and built to accomodate aftermarket bodies, equipment, lights, etc. Without knowing a thing I would guess some butcher with tools installed and wired the bed lights to circuits where he should not have or in inappropriate ways.

My c&c has a factory master wiring harness at the extreme rear of the left frame rail where aftermarket lights and equipment can be connected to power. I'm assuming the truck doesn't have an aftermarket winch, compressor, or other auxilliary equipment. Those items, if installed, would be suspect.

The bed could have even been installed on and pinching the factory wiring harness at the end of the left frame rail.

 

[GCroyle]

What was weird about our 2007 TIPM episode, the truck had virtually zero towing miles, towed a boat once or twice and the "Dodge Tech" blamed the Banks system (which was the only electrical modification of any kind) that had been installed for about 6 years prior to it acting up as the bad guy, they actually cut the EGT cable as a part of their service for our company truck. Its gone now. IIRC the first episodes of lost power to the dash were in a hard rain, coincedience? No idea.

 

[Road Dog]

My worry is that it may not be related to trailer towing at all. That TIPM carries a lot of functions, I am simply amazed that something doesn't trip out long before it cooks that badly. I'm hoping that one or more of the Mopar Tech guys may have seen enough similar failures to say "That is a failure pattern that I have seen before and ______ caused it"... .

Having done a lot of industrial control, you always separate the delicate electronics from the real world with big relays or power transistors (replaceable of course) and fuses. There's far to many bad electrons out there to expose your computer circuits.

 

[Prairie Dog]

In a perfect world I would check the schematics and make sure supply voltages from the ECM, especially VCC, are correct. The burned chip looks suspiciously like it had excessive supply voltage applied to it. Of course that could have happened during the meltdown but it's still very questionable to me.

 

[p-Bar]

I would pull the plug going to the bed and use a 12v batt and amp meter and see if everything is within normal range. As HB said some butcher probably got under there . Their are few mechanics that are good with electrical. My . 02

 

[Motorhead]

In building my original TIPM saver, I really think that the TIPM just isn't meant to run ANYTHING other than STOCK lighting. Had one member here that I sold a TIPM saver to and he had one turn signal circuit blown out. I worried that maybe I had a failure with the TIPM saver I had built and sold to several members here. After 15 minutes with the member asking about everything I could imagine to ask him, I found out that the PREVIOUS owner installed a headache rack and had lights on it. They were tied into the trailer light circuit wiring BEFORE the rear trailer socket plug. Well the culprit was one of those lights that had a poor wiring job on it and had shorted to ground.
That said... . A TOW TRUCK has all sorts of extra lighting and as said on previous posts to this topic, were wired by some MOUSEKETEERE at a tow body shop. The owner of the chassis that has that well cooked TIPM would be wise to have ALL extra lighting and signals be isolated with a relay bank. Never seen a TIPM that WELL DONE!!! My $0. 02

 

[mwilson]

I meant to get a picture of the truck and body yesterday before leaving Bangor.



It only has an aluminum flatbed on it. No side lights, no rack lights, nothing. The only additional lighting is on the rear. The factory cab-chassis frame rail mounted tail lights remain in place, then there are a total of (4) 4" round grommet mounted stop/turn/tail lights, (2) on each side.

That's it... .



I also will take a picture of the TIPM housing, I was looking it over yesterday and it is melted right where the hot spot on the board is. So then I wondered if it had actually been on fire (remember those pictures are showing the circuit board upside down from how it mounts in the truck) because of the smoke trail along the perpendicular board.

I asked the service writer if it had caught fire, and yes it had. The operator got the batteries unhooked before it got real bad but it was indeed burning.



It is strange, ever stranger is that it has happened twice.



Also found out that it was a rainy day during each failure... ... ...



Mike.

 

[Motorhead]

Is there ANY electrically driven hydraulic pumps that move the tow bed or is that done with a PTO? Something of HIGH amp draw is cooking the TIPM. I'd check each wire going into the TIPM plug and look for one that shows wire insulation melt or discolored PIN on the TIPM plug. Follow the melted or discolored wire or pin and you should find the source of the short... ... Hopefully!

 

[HBarlow]

I meant to get a picture of the truck and body yesterday before leaving Bangor.

It only has an aluminum flatbed on it. No side lights, no rack lights, nothing. The only additional lighting is on the rear. The factory cab-chassis frame rail mounted tail lights remain in place, then there are a total of (4) 4" round grommet mounted stop/turn/tail lights, (2) on each side.
That's it... .

I also will take a picture of the TIPM housing, I was looking it over yesterday and it is melted right where the hot spot on the board is. So then I wondered if it had actually been on fire (remember those pictures are showing the circuit board upside down from how it mounts in the truck) because of the smoke trail along the perpendicular board.
I asked the service writer if it had caught fire, and yes it had. The operator got the batteries unhooked before it got real bad but it was indeed burning.

It is strange, ever stranger is that it has happened twice.

Also found out that it was a rainy day during each failure... ... ...

Mike.

Has anyone checked the four lamps on the rear of the bed to see if they're full of water?

We're assuming the problem originates with the aftermarket bed but lots of circuits are powered through the TIPM. Perhaps something completely unrelated to the aftermarket bed is faulty? Are the cab lights full of water or show evidence of being wet inside? Headlights? Front parking/turn signal lamps?

I'm just guessing.

 

[jgillott]

Has anyone checked the four lamps on the rear of the bed to see if they're full of water?

We're assuming the problem originates with the aftermarket bed but lots of circuits are powered through the TIPM. Perhaps something completely unrelated to the aftermarket bed is faulty? Are the cab lights full of water or show evidence of being wet inside? Headlights? Front parking/turn signal lamps?

I'm just guessing.

That's a very good point. It's not a TIPM truck, but we have been having a hard time finding an electrical problem on our '04. 5 since we've had all of this rain here in western PA. First, the parking lights would not turn off. Now we can't get the headlights or the right rear turn signal/brake light to work. It has to be water in something (we've had almost everything apart), just unable to source it yet.

 

[Motorhead]

I think Harvey has a good place to check.

 

[sag2]

Do you know if the TIPM has ever been reset? This looks like the circuit (whatever it was) is overloaded and the driver should have shut off when it sensed the overload. The reason the TIPM has to be replaced after so many short circuits is exactly this. The parts on the board get stressed each time they are overloaded, and the theory is the TIPM should shut down. I agree that the cause is some excessive load somewhere, either OEM or aftermarket circuit.
If it were mine I would buy or make a relay setup for the lights.

 

[HBarlow]

Mike,

We're waiting to hear the diagnosis. Surely your shop has figured out the cause of the melted TIPM by now.