Tire Clearance problem Desert Fox 30-5J Toy Hauler

[WWomack]

I have a tire clearance issue and was hoping someone with Toy Hauler type trailer or experience in this could help me out. The trailer is a 30’ fifth wheel Toy hauler that is 9600 lbs empty and has a gross weight of 14K.



Problem: The tops of the tires have rubbed and penetrated thru the top of the inner fender well. I have measured the clearance between the top of the tire and the fender well. I have 1. 5 inches of clearance. All the tires have contacted the fender wells but only one has rubbed thru. So while traveling down the road and a bump is hit the tire gently rubs the top of the fender well plastic. I have not modified the rig and it has 235 85 R16E Uniroyal tires that it came with new.



I have it at a repair shop and thankfully the manufacturer is taking care of this and a few other small issues. The customer service rep and I spoke about the problem. He gave me a measurement of 5 inches for the hangers that the leaf springs are attached too. Mine measure 4 inches and the frame shop at the manufacturer believes that is where the tire clearance problem is. The remedy was to cut off the old hangers and weld the longer hangers in place. But between the manufacturer and the repair shop tech they came up with another fix (easier). They will place the springs on top of the axle (Flip the axle), effectively lifting the rig 3 to 4 inches. I was unsure of this repair but here I am?? I guess if it’s not right and the rig is too tall or handles unsafely I’ll approach that as it unfolds. I didn’t think another inch of clearance was going too help all that much (1”longer spring hangers) but 3 to 4 inches more is that excess?? That will give me 4-5. 5 inches of clearance between the tires and wheel well. My concern is this repair going to be safe? The trailer is tall enough now (it’s huge). Is the spring on top of the axle OK? There must be a reason when they manufacture these units, they place the axle on top of the springs on these rigs? Any down side? It tows great now except for HOLES IN THE FENDER WELLS!! What to do? Possible problems with axle alignment are other concerns I have. Rear cargo door too high.



I came up with a few ideas but once again I’d like some input so as to get the best fix. Shorter 245 75 16E tires which have the same load capacity of 3040 lbs each. They are 1. 5 inches shorter but if the springs settle am I going to be in the same position I am now? I thought that after the axles were flipped if the rig was still too high, they could drill lower mounting holes in the spring hangers there by lowering the unit by 2-3 inches? I guess I would like to see 3 inches of clearance between the tire and top of the wheel well when they finish.



Here is how I load it when we travel. ¼ tank of water, grey and black tanks empty. Food and clothes for my wife and I for maybe a week to 10 days. 2 big 4 wheelers 660 and 800. Honda EU 2000 and sorted stuff. Full tank of gas and water when we get there.



I’m glad the manufacturer is honoring the warranty but I’m unsure of the fix. I’m one year into the two year warranty.







Any help, comments, ideas are appreciated.

 

[Grizzly]

Did you purchase the Toy Hauler new? If so it came with ST tires, which are total junk and will fall apart soon. Get shorter LT tires. Flipping the axles is a good thing, especially since you have a 4WD. It's almost always done with 4WD.



My 08 Arctic Fox 5er came from the factory with the axles flipped and with 16" ST tires. As soon as I got the 5er home, after a 2800 mile trip, I had Discount Tire replace all 5 ST tires with Michelin XPS Rib 235/85R/16", LR "E", LT tires.



Hope this helps, george

 

[RVTRKN]

I have a tire clearance issue and was hoping someone with Toy Hauler type trailer or experience in this could help me out. The trailer is a 30’ fifth wheel Toy hauler that is 9600 lbs empty and has a gross weight of 14K.



Problem: The tops of the tires have rubbed and penetrated thru the top of the inner fender well. I have measured the clearance between the top of the tire and the fender well. I have 1. 5 inches of clearance. All the tires have contacted the fender wells but only one has rubbed thru. So while traveling down the road and a bump is hit the tire gently rubs the top of the fender well plastic. I have not modified the rig and it has 235 85 R16E Uniroyal tires that it came with new.



I have it at a repair shop and thankfully the manufacturer is taking care of this and a few other small issues. The customer service rep and I spoke about the problem. He gave me a measurement of 5 inches for the hangers that the leaf springs are attached too. Mine measure 4 inches and the frame shop at the manufacturer believes that is where the tire clearance problem is. The remedy was to cut off the old hangers and weld the longer hangers in place. But between the manufacturer and the repair shop tech they came up with another fix (easier). They will place the springs on top of the axle (Flip the axle), effectively lifting the rig 3 to 4 inches. I was unsure of this repair but here I am?? I guess if it’s not right and the rig is too tall or handles unsafely I’ll approach that as it unfolds. I didn’t think another inch of clearance was going too help all that much (1”longer spring hangers) but 3 to 4 inches more is that excess?? That will give me 4-5. 5 inches of clearance between the tires and wheel well. My concern is this repair going to be safe? The trailer is tall enough now (it’s huge). Is the spring on top of the axle OK? There must be a reason when they manufacture these units, they place the axle on top of the springs on these rigs? Any down side? It tows great now except for HOLES IN THE FENDER WELLS!! What to do? Possible problems with axle alignment are other concerns I have. Rear cargo door too high.



I came up with a few ideas but once again I’d like some input so as to get the best fix. Shorter 245 75 16E tires which have the same load capacity of 3040 lbs each. They are 1. 5 inches shorter but if the springs settle am I going to be in the same position I am now? I thought that after the axles were flipped if the rig was still too high, they could drill lower mounting holes in the spring hangers there by lowering the unit by 2-3 inches? I guess I would like to see 3 inches of clearance between the tire and top of the wheel well when they finish.



Here is how I load it when we travel. ¼ tank of water, grey and black tanks empty. Food and clothes for my wife and I for maybe a week to 10 days. 2 big 4 wheelers 660 and 800. Honda EU 2000 and sorted stuff. Full tank of gas and water when we get there.



I’m glad the manufacturer is honoring the warranty but I’m unsure of the fix. I’m one year into the two year warranty.







Any help, comments, ideas are appreciated.

Desert Fox is made by the same manufacture as Arctic fox (Northwood manufacturing) and is probably why your getting a good response from the manufacture. The flipping of the axles are common and you should be OK with it, but I would of had them change it to the original specs it should of been manufactured with the first time, before anything else was done, to insure the factory defect was properly taken care of, in case you wanted to leave it in the stock condition at a later time

 

[HBarlow]

Changing tires would not help much. There is very little difference in the diameter between LT235/85 R16 and LT245/75 R16 tires and a smaller size would be an unwise choice.

The preferred method for raising a trailer is to completely remove the suspension, hangers, springs, axles, etc. and weld six foot lengths of 2" by 4" square tubing (the size of an ordinary wood 2" by 4") to the bottom of the frame rails with several metal stiffener straps welded down both inside and outside of the sidewalls of the frame rails and the new square tubing. Then reattach the spring hangers to the new sub frame rails.

Longer spring hangers would have been a bad idea. Reversing the axle positions is acceptable.

 

[CUMMINZ]

I agree with HB, the only change I would make is to make that tubing longer to add a little rigidity to the frame.

 

[CUMMINZ]

Showing you the difference between 15" and 16" I added to my old 29' Sprinter. I added the tires not for height but for safety and longer wear. :-laf



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[cojhl2]

Flipping the axles

I thought trailer axles of cap 7k and greater had a toein and camber built in. if that is the case then flipping would screw that up.



I got that info a few years back from a manuf rep who was trying to solve a clearance problem for me on a 14k deckover.



help me am I misinformed?

 

[KYOUNG]

flipping isnt really what is being done ,the axles are moved under the springs instead of over. .

 

[cojhl2]

flipping isnt really what is being done ,the axles are moved under the springs instead of over. .

Ok that makes sense. That means the spring pads must be reattached right?

 

[RVTRKN]

I'll repeat it again, it is best to force the manufacture to do the repair/restore to original specifications. WWomack posts that 5" hangers are supposed to be per the specs and his are shorter. Before anything is done, that should be repaired to bring it to the original specs and then change it if thats what he wants.

 

[Grizzly]

WWomack, if you are going with the 2x4 tubing welded under the frame, which I don't believe is necessary, the tubing length should be no less then 8'

 

[surfbeetle]

Longer hangers are not the best idea unless properly supported. Also as everyone has chimed in, the axles under the leaf springs is acceptable. A couple of other thoughts, maybe another leaf should be added to support the weight and shocks could be added to dampen the movement so that the tire don't rub.

 

[Road Dog]

A spring over axle configuration is a common mod although you can't actually "flip" the axle any more since modern axles are curved. Most of the time there are spring perches top and bottom so it's easy. Sometimes you have to weld new perches onto the axle which is easy too.

A spring under configuration helps with axle wrap on driven wheels and frees up a little room for steering components -- neither of which matters on a trailer.

 

[WWomack]

Thanks for all the replies. I have come up with another question. If the dealer places the axle which is 3 inches in diameter, under the leaf spring, and being that the leaf spring is 2 inches tall, doesn't this mean I will gain 5 inches of lift? The dealer keeps telling me that it will be 3 inches of lift. To me I'm going to gain 5 inches of lift as the axle will be mounted UNDER the springs which adds 2 more inches on top of the axle width?? Anybody done it who can confirm my suspicions?

 

[surfbeetle]

Remember, the axle was previously above and now will be below the axle. Your net change should be the height of the spring pack plus the new perch and the radius of the axle.

 

[JJPage]

Dexter makes a kit for placing the axles under the spring pack, which I did on my 30 ft Ragen toy box. The end result was 5" difference in height.



I mainly did it because I had lifted my truck and wanted the trailer to set level behind my rig. It tows fine, and does not feel top heavy, but I am sure it did nothing for my mileage... . I do have more clearence between the box side rails and the trailer.



The problems, now I need to carry larger blocks to place under my stabilizers, loading ramp is steeper, the entrance steps are higher(that 1st step) and there was a large void, between the top of my tires and the trailer fender openings, looked like a lifted trailer. I purchased some plastic fender skirts from an RV distributor, and trimmed them to fit, they look ok.



To be honest, kind of wish I would have never lifted either, truck or trailer.

 

[WWomack]

Yes sir, you folks are correct Dealer called me today and said 5 inches of clearance were gained so he is looking for a way to lower it by 3 inches. He wants to hook it to the truck and check everything first. I'll say this they are concerned and want me to be satisfied with the end result. Thanks for the replies WB.

 

[surfbeetle]

If you can level it out, actually the pin should be one inch lower than level, then you will be okay. More clearance between the bed rails and the trailer make it easier when going into uneven driveways or dirt roads.