Too close to the line?

[randyq]

I have a 2014 3500 Aisin crew cab, long box, SWD. The max trailer weight listed is 17,210. The Arctic Fox fifth wheel comes in at 16,300 on the brochure.
Can I run this rig and be safe?

 

[Deleted member 995608]

Here come the weight nazi's in 4,3,2.........

IMO and according the the weight rating of your VIN, you are are within the legal capabilities of your truck. Drive/tow safe, enjoy the journey and enjoy your truck.

 

[AH64ID]

Many things effect the published max tow rating, but be smart and don't exceed any tire ratings. Your single biggest real world limit is tires. A 16-17Klb 5er will get you very close to the rear axles tire limit, and that's not looking at passengers or cargo.

Check your local laws, in many states the only real legal limit is tires and registration. That being said LRF tires loaded to the max on a Ranger would still get you a ticket, just not an overweight one.

One of the biggest factors of the GCWR for a 3.42 truck will be the rear end gearing, upgrading to 3.73 or 4.10 would alleviate some engine and transmission strain at max GCWR, or above.

Don't expect the brochure weight to be accurate, the loaded for camping weight will be several thousand pounds heavier.

 

[rynosback]

Here come the weight nazi's in 4,3,2.........

IMO and according the the weight rating of your VIN, you are are within the legal capabilities of your truck. Drive/tow safe, enjoy the journey and enjoy your truck.

1..0.... You saying that really tells me a lot about you. I mean what do the engineers who build these truck know. It sounds like you would be in limits to the trucks specs. Is that the dry weight with out any water gear or supplies? The tires usually are the weak link. But there are many other factors involved with towing specs. Just to name a few like brakes, cooling system, transmission and suspension. You should know as your load will push you around and you'll drive white knuckled. I prefer having to much truck and feel the confidence driving down the road. But that is just me.

 

[AH64ID]

There are many limits that are marketing limits, especially on HD pickups.

The brakes, suspension, cooling, transmission, frame, etc are all the same as the DRW rated to to a LOT more. SAE J2807, which Ram adheres to, allows DRW rigs to go slower than SRW rigs. That means a DRW version can be rated to tow more than the identical SRW truck.

Stick within rear axle limits, mainly tires.

 

[Slow Six]

Can you be safe? I'd say you would be as long as nothing goes wrong. We spend our winters in Arizona and I cannot believe the size of trailers that people tow with little SRW short box trucks. I realize that weight is the only factor most consider. There are a lot of long fivers that are not heavy but you still have 40 feet of trailer or longer. That is a lot of wall back there to catch wind. In these situations when things go wrong the tail wags the dog. A neighbor showed up here this year with a smashed truck and no trailer. He made a maneuver on the highway and lost control. He was pulling a long trailer with a SRW short box. He said his truck was rated for the weight and he did not understand that he did not have enough truck. I hope people smarten up because if there are to many of these incidents there will be more rules. I towed a 33 ft. fiver for some time with my SRW long box and got along okay. I changed up to the dually and the difference was night and day. I like the way the dually handles the load, the stability plus the ride of the longer wheel base. When it comes to a truck for towing if some is good, more is better and to much is just right.

 

[Dieselnerd]

I towed the 5th wheel in my signature for years with a 2005 SRW 3500. I did weigh it carefully and I did have a 4:10 rear axle which went up hills just fine. I was always about 250 pounds under my rear tire rating which was close but OK.

I'm towing the same trailer with a DRW now. I have to say it is much more stable and it eliminates the tail wag I got with any steering correction on the SRW. Is it safer? Hard to say, I was within all the limits and I never felt unsafe. I'm not a weight Nazi but I do like to stay within all the manufacturers limits.

Having towed for a couple of seasons with the DRW, I would never go back to a SRW. Not for safety as much as for the fact that it is just more pleasant to drive with a big trailer attached.

 

[Bob4x4]

For me a white knukcle tow experience spoils the whole reason to tow an rv in the first place.I save the white knuckle experiece for playing with one of the toys off road

 

[Cummins12V98]

The only question that really matters is can your truck handle a 4K pin?

 

[randyq]

The tires are 275/70R18E and the door sticker says 7000 lb load with 80 lb of air. The door max cargo sticker says 3986 lbs. . Does this mean that the tires are rated higher than Ram rates the capacity? And, the fiver brochure claims 2373 dry pin weight. Is the weight I add to the fiver spread out over the unit? Or, should I consider all additional weight in the fiver to be weight on the truck rear tires?
Would adding air bags many difference to anything we are talking about?
Or am I getting confused?

 

[AH64ID]

Tires/wheels will be the real limit, and the tires are rated higher than the 7K rating but the wheels may not be.

5er weight will spread depending on where it is at, the further forward it is the more weight that goes into the bed. 20-25% of the GVW should be on the pin.

The door sticker payload is based on GVWR minus curb weight, not FAWR+RAWR minus curb weight.

I would go weigh your truck with a 5th wheel hitch installed and see how much weight carrying capacity your rear axle has left. Nearly every pound will go to the rear axle. If the hitch is centered 4" forward of the axle (not sure where it's at on your truck) only 2.3% of the weight will make it to the front axle or 92lbs worth if the pin weight is 4K.

EDIT: Looks like ram rates the 18" OEM wheels at 3,500lbs, giving you the 7K lbs. At 7K lbs your tires would be at 96% of their capacity. You will feel the load at that weight, but it won't be unsafe.

 

[rynosback]

The tires are 275/70R18E and the door sticker says 7000 lb load with 80 lb of air. The door max cargo sticker says 3986 lbs. . Does this mean that the tires are rated higher than Ram rates the capacity? And, the fiver brochure claims 2373 dry pin weight. Is the weight I add to the fiver spread out over the unit? Or, should I consider all additional weight in the fiver to be weight on the truck rear tires?
Would adding air bags many difference to anything we are talking about?
Or am I getting confused?

No it is not necessary spread over the unit. It depends on were you load it. The absolute best way is it to load it the way you want it and then weigh each wheel on your 5ver and TV. This way you can see if you need to adjust or remove any of your load. Air bags DO NOT change your carrying capacity. They can help adjust your ride height in the rear. There are a lot of people that do it and thinks it does, but they are FALSE.

 

[bigblock_doc]

It doesn't change the rating but with air bags it can move a little weight to the fronts by leveling it.

 

[AH64ID]

It doesn't change the rating but with air bags it can move a little weight to the fronts by leveling it.

Unless you induce a fairly decent rake there will not be any weight transferred to the front with airbags, they simply level.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Unless you induce a fairly decent rake there will not be any weight transferred to the front with airbags, they simply level.

VERY little weight transfers to the front axle with a 5er. My 4,500-5K pin there is less than 200# hitting the front axle. That is with the hitch 2" forward of center.

 

[AH64ID]

VERY little weight transfers to the front axle with a 5er. My 4,500-5K pin there is less than 200# hitting the front axle. That is with the hitch 2" forward of center.

Exactly! The rear would have to be lifted many many inches with airbags to effect front axle weight.

 

[RVTRKN]

3 2 1 BOOM, the one subject that brings out the best of us. 1st) It's not a Trailer, it's a 5ver. 2nd) Because it's a 5ver it effects GCVWR in which transfers weight to the trucks GVW and subtracts some of the 5vers weight. 3rd) You need to know pin weight loaded so your under the rear axle ratings on your door sticker. 4th) Fill your truck with fuel and dump all your tanks, but leave enough fresh water for travel. Make sure your 5ver is loaded as you travel when you weigh it. Go to a certified scale and weigh the Steer axle, Drive axle and then the 5vers axles.

As long as your with in those weights, it won't matter what your GCVW is, except for the warranty issues. If you stay within Dodges GCVWR your warranty is intact, if you stay within DOT requirements but over Dodges GCVWR, your legal. Here is an example of my Arctic Fox in signature and my 04.5 2500 in signature, which is DOT legal. Here is an example of my 04.5 2500 in signature with my Arctic Fox in signature weighed at a Cat Scale.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77053&d=1298641240

 

[Jim W]

1..0.... You saying that really tells me a lot about you. I mean what do the engineers who build these truck know. It sounds like you would be in limits to the trucks specs. Is that the dry weight with out any water gear or supplies? The tires usually are the weak link. But there are many other factors involved with towing specs. Just to name a few like brakes, cooling system, transmission and suspension. You should know as your load will push you around and you'll drive white knuckled. I prefer having to much truck and feel the confidence driving down the road. But that is just me.

When I worked for a very very large earth moving manufacturing company we would always design in between 15 and 20% more capacity in the product. This way we had design growth and just changed the weight tags and did not have to re-run the ROPS and FOPS test for these machine. Engineers always over design a product just the nature of the beast.

Jim W.

 

[AH64ID]

Sorry RV got to pick on you a little... GCVWR???? That's a acronym that drives me nuts!! There is GCWR or GVWR, but not GCVWR.

The 2004.5 you talked about had a GVWR of 9,000lbs and a GCWR of 20,000lbs... but no GCVWR. linky

How does a 5er transfer weight to the TV? It rides and places weight on the TV, but that does not reduce the weight of the 5er. A 10K 5er with 2500lbs of pin is still a 10K 5er when hooked up.

 

[RVTRKN]

Did they legalize pot in Idaho? I won't argue acronyms. But 5vers transfer weight to the rear axle lightening up the RV's weight when a trailer weight is the full weight of the trailer axles. So a 16K pound trailer is 16K when a 16K pound 5ver has some weight transferred to TV.