Tookie will be Toast

[JensenC]

Has anyone really read post #23?

Yes, but don't the teachings of Jesus emphasize forgiveness and tolerance rather than revenge and execution? It seems like a lot of the New Testament flys in the face of stuff in the Old TEstament.

 

[RustyJC]

Try reading post #22. It explicitly addresses God's ordained role for governmental authority as it applies to this specific topic.



Rusty

 

[Texas Diesel]

Yes, but don't the teachings of Jesus emphasize forgiveness and tolerance rather than revenge and execution? It seems like a lot of the New Testament flys in the face of stuff in the Old TEstament.

I see where you are coming from. Yes, it would seem that Jesus over-rode the OT law. At first anyway.



Consider this, the context of the Sermon on the Mount that you are thinking of has to pivotal points. Mt 5:1, who was Jesus actually teaching? His disciples (soon to be preachers) When he have the 2 fish and 5 loaves, he gave them to the DECIPLES to feed the people. See what he was doing? Showing the DECIPLES how to teach. If someone was offended by the teaching and raised up in resentment then the disciples were to "turn the other cheek" if someone demanded extra documentation for a teaching then they were to give extra assistance to that person "go the extra mile".



All of the Sermon on the Mount was conduct when TEACHING the word.



Mt 5:17 sums up Jesus' position on the CIVIL LAW, he altered the way the priests (soon to be called preachers) handled the RELIGIOUS law and specifically teaching.



Mt 5:1 Seeing the multitudes... He went to a MOUNTAIN... and HIS DECIPLES CAME TO HIM.

 

[nps]

I'd like my toasted Tookie with butter and honey. :-laf

 

[scootergmc]

So you don't think the majority of death penaly supporters are christian republicans? I thought I was stating a fact, not being ignorant. Thanks for clearing things up.

If you are glad the sentence was carried out, then you sound like a death penalty supporter.

Scott Petersen will be around for a long time because of our flawed legal system. It scares me that that same legal system can put people to death. Ever wonder how people have been put to death in the US for a crime they didn't commit?

1. I don't know, but I'm not going to jump to assumptions. You were being ingorant.



2. Support the death penalty, I do. But there is a difference between supporting it and being glad a sentence is carried out.



3. What scares you about the legal system? We put convicted killers to death? Why is that scary? The 50 billion appeals they're going to have before they get the needle? I'm sure you know how many thousands of hours legal professionals work in order to prove someone is innocent before a death sentence is actually carried out. How many appeals and writs did Mr. Williams have before he was executed? Do you think he was innocent?



4. No. Ever wondered how many people are running loose with crimes they did commit?



So do you think OJ is/is not guilty?

 

[scootergmc]

The number of which is much smaller than the number of former prisoners who have been successfully rehabilitated in prison and are now functioning, productive members of society.

And the majority of those are non-violent offenders. Not an issue.

 

[DennyDay]

Suggested to a Tarrant County Commissioners court (Texas), that instead of building more prison beds, all the needed to do was construct a gallows on the front lawn of the court house, and they wouldn't need the new beds!



But the bleeding hearts built the beds - - - go figure!



Denny

 

[JensenC]

1. I don't know, but I'm not going to jump to assumptions. You were being ingorant.



2. Support the death penalty, I do. But there is a difference between supporting it and being glad a sentence is carried out.



3. What scares you about the legal system? We put convicted killers to death? Why is that scary? The 50 billion appeals they're going to have before they get the needle? I'm sure you know how many thousands of hours legal professionals work in order to prove someone is innocent before a death sentence is actually carried out. How many appeals and writs did Mr. Williams have before he was executed? Do you think he was innocent?



4. No. Ever wondered how many people are running loose with crimes they did commit?



So do you think OJ is/is not guilty?

From an ABC News poll, just one example I could cite if you want me to:



"It's political in another sense, however: The issue is one that sharply divides political groups in this country. Given a choice of the death penalty vs. life in prison for convicted murderers, Republicans favor the death penalty by a 2-1 margin, while more Democrats prefer the life sentence. Independents divide right down the middle. "



I doubt Mr. Williams was innocent, but I don't know enough about the case to pretend to know all the facts. Same with OJ.

 

[JensenC]

And the majority of those are non-violent offenders. Not an issue.

Most people who get the death penalty would never, ever get out of prison if they got an alternative life sentence. Don't you think rotting in a 4x10 concrete cell for 50 years is a fate worse than death?

 

[RustyJC]

Most people who get the death penalty would never, ever get out of prison if they got an alternative life sentence.

Man, now that really warms my heart! Most would never get out? What about the ones that do - any guarantees that they're not going to rape, molest or murder again?



Texas has not had the option of life without parole. An individual convicted of capital murder either receives the death penalty or, if sentenced to life, is eligible for parole after 40 years. That explains a critical factor in the propensity for Texas prosecutors to seek and Texas juries to impose the death penalty. The only sure, certain way to ensure that an individual never hits the streets again is to impose the death penalty.



Rusty

 

[RustyJC]

From an ABC News poll, just one example I could cite if you want me to:



"It's political in another sense, however: The issue is one that sharply divides political groups in this country. Given a choice of the death penalty vs. life in prison for convicted murderers, Republicans favor the death penalty by a 2-1 margin, while more Democrats prefer the life sentence. Independents divide right down the middle. "

From wikipedia:

Opinion polls consistently show a majority of the American public support the death penalty. A May 2005 Gallup poll had 74% of respondees in "favor of the death penalty for a person convicted of murder". In the same Gallup poll, when life imprisonment without parole was given as an option as a punishment for murder, 56% supported the death penalty and 39% supported life imprisonment, with 5% offering no opinion. [18]



Religious groups are widely split on the issue of capital punishment,[19] generally with more conservative groups more likely to support it and more liberal groups more likely to oppose it.

Rusty

 

[J Shocik]

From JensenC. Regardless, show me proof that the death penalty is a deterrent.

I really don't think the death penalty is a deterrent. I do believe for "an eye for an eye". I also believe the death penalty, if carried out by all states, would vastly ease overcrowding in prisons. "You do the crime, you do the time!"

As for all the religious quotes on this subject, comedian George Carlin said it best, "More people in the world have been killed in the name of religion than for any other reason. " The trouble in the Middle East is proof of this. Those people have been fighting for centuries .



I'm not going to try to be some self rightous individual. I'm a simple man who is sick & tired of criminals being treated better than their victims, and whiney cry-babies sticking up for them. This jerk was put to death for what he did while out of jail. He had the same chances as you & me. 4 people are dead for about $200. And he bragged about the 7-11 clerk he shot (in the back while lying on the floor). May God have mercy on the animal who harms any member of my family, because I won't!!!!

 

[RustyJC]

As for all the religious quotes on this subject, comedian George Carlin said it best, "More people in the world have been killed in the name of religion than for any other reason. " The trouble in the Middle East is proof of this. Those people have been fighting for centuries .

The "religious quotes" were the result of the posit being raised that, if one is a Christian, then he/she cannot be in favor of capital punishment. Sorry if they bothered you.



Rusty

 

[scootergmc]

From an ABC News poll, just one example I could cite if you want me to:



"It's political in another sense, however: The issue is one that sharply divides political groups in this country. Given a choice of the death penalty vs. life in prison for convicted murderers, Republicans favor the death penalty by a 2-1 margin, while more Democrats prefer the life sentence. Independents divide right down the middle. "



I doubt Mr. Williams was innocent, but I don't know enough about the case to pretend to know all the facts. Same with OJ.

How many of those are Christian Republicans? I need a Cite...

 

[nps]

How many of those are Christian Republicans? I need a Cite...

It's not because they are Christians or Republicans. It is because they are conservatives that believe in personal responsibility. All those Democrats are liberals that think the criminal's actions were because of some imagined abuse in childhood and that we can 'reform' the poor, abused and dejected 'victim' in prision.



I always believe in giving them a fair and impartial trial followed by a speedy hangin. :-laf

 

[scootergmc]

Most people who get the death penalty would never, ever get out of prison if they got an alternative life sentence. Don't you think rotting in a 4x10 concrete cell for 50 years is a fate worse than death?

You should visit a Prison. Everyone gets health and mental care. When it's not done good enough a judge steps in to tell them how to do it (welcome to CA). They have heat, TV, commissary, etc (not to mention a flourishing drug trade). Nobody rots.

 

[scootergmc]

It's not because they are Christians or Republicans. It is because they are conservatives that believe in personal responsibility. All those Democrats are liberals that think the criminal's actions were because of some imagined abuse in childhood and that we can 'reform' the poor, abused and dejected 'victim' in prision.



I always believe in giving them a fair and impartial trial followed by a speedy hangin. :-laf

I'm just calling him out on his ignorant statement.



And not all Democrats are liberals... c'mon now, play nice.

 

[nps]

And not all Democrats are liberals... c'mon now, play nice.

OK - maybe one or two of them aren't socialist commies.

 

[Digger-Bear]

You should visit a Prison. Everyone gets health and mental care. When it's not done good enough a judge steps in to tell them how to do it (welcome to CA). They have heat, TV, commissary, etc (not to mention a flourishing drug trade). Nobody rots.

Maybe in California – I’ve been in Angola (not just watching the rodeo, IN Angola – got an acquaintance doing a well deserved life term there) its a pretty horrible place (no west coast frills) – I could tell you some stories… In Louisiana, life means life. I would rather be put to death over spending the rest of my life there. BTW, I am pro death penalty and, yes, I would be willing to personally pull the plug on the guy I know there.

 

[J Shocik]

From RustyJC:

The "religious quotes" were the result of the posit being raised that, if one is a Christian, then he/she cannot be in favor of capital punishment.

If we were all true Christians, then Tookie would'n't have cold- bloodedly murdered 4 innocent people. There comes a time when "turning the other cheek" simply won't work. I'm just tired of turning the other cheek so it can get slapped too. For a society like ours to survive in the long term, sacrifices have to be made, and not just on war battlefields. Our inner cities are becoming battlefields. The death penalty is one of the tools we need to keep control of our society. Didn't God sacrifice his only son, Jesus Christ, for us?? The point being "sacrifice". Sacrifices have to be made as sad as it is to say. Tookie was one of them. He brought it on himself.