Torque Converter Percent?

[KGoode]

GLASMITHS, I'm not sure if ATS has their own lockup device or if they use someone elses. I already had a BD controller so I keeped it and added an overide switch to it.

 

[Snow man]

Stakeman,Im think Bill has given us much more info than he really needed to,I'm sure as he gets solid answers for himself about the limits of the input shaft,and gets time to post it,he will pass them along. The man even put up a few pics of the Vp44 ,from stephans truck,and told where the 2 bolts were,and how to check them,He didnt need to do that,About bashing,on this forum,we pay for our posting privledges,so I feel we shouldnt need to hold back the truth,but lets be fair. Before i would ever bad mouth any vendor,I try to resolve the issue with them First. I think this is where DTT gets its reputation from,I have called Bill many times,there is not one time that I couldnt get the answers i needed,or help. I did 2 DTT installs for myself,the first one i did at night,so i called ahead to ask a few questions about the internal upgrades,Bill gave me his home phone #,and told me to feel free to call him at home that night,if i had any problems. . I didnt need to call,but the whole time i did the job,I was a lot more relaxed knowing Bill would walk me thru anything I had trouble with. That alone is priceless. How many other business men would go to that lenth,and do that after doing it all day long?If he treats all his customers as good as me,its no wonder anyone who says bad/untrue,or even questions Bill gets jumped.

 

[StakeMan]

I was not questioning Bill's customer service or anything like that. I am not jumping him. I just wanted more information about the broken input shaft. Thats all. I am sorry if it was taken the wrong way. It was not my intent to cause a problem. Just seeking information.

 

[Strick-9]

I went for a test ride in Don's truck at ATS and he was using the BD torqueloc for TC control as well as the factory setup. At least that's what he told me.



KGoode,



I don't know if strength is the ultimate goal of freezing parts. The problems with input shafts and front hubs breaking (mine at least) are due to the torque spikes. If you could make a part absorb the shock loads better (tougher/less brittle) to handle the torque spikes, but its ultimate tensile strength was the same, would that be a better part?



But I too would like to know if the cryo'd parts have a higher tensile strength or not. I haven't broken an output shaft yet, but they seem to simply not be strong enough to handle the torque of the motor plus the torque multiplication of the converter during the stall test. Maybe someone can stall test a cryo'd output shaft to see when it breaks. But some people break output shafts from the torque spikes at the end of sled pulls when the tires fight for traction under full power. I personally feel cryo'ing would help this situation. The input shaft and hubs (mine) seem to fail most often from torque spikes and are too brittle. Thus the reason for cryo'ing.



These are my own thoughts on the process only.



-Chris

 

[rubberneck]

I believe strick9 is correct on the cryo treatment. My understanding is that is simply a stress relieving process. I have had a few rifle barrels done, and what i was told is that the rockwell hardness of the material is not greatly effected, it just helps to align the molecules and therefore relieve any stress in the material that may have been created during the manufacturing process.

 

[Bob Wagner]

like they say........

A picture is worth a thousand words... .....

 

[StakeMan]

I am sorry if this post was mistaken for baiting. That was not my intention.

Originally posted by StakeMan

TAP, TAP, TAP.



Is this thing on?



hummm

 

[GLASMITHS]

If stress (torque) break the transmission, shifting lock to lock, for instance; wouldn't shifting the Gear Venders under power do the same to the other end.



That was the main reason I choose GV over US Gear. So am I going to lay the drive shaft on the road some day? It shifts at automatically at 20 mph, you are in 1st gear at about 2600 rpm.

I have often wondered. GV says it won't hurt it. Maybe they were talking about the GV unit not the stuff behind it?







George

 

[Dave MacArthur]

Could someone please explain how a stall test is done?



Thanks,

Dave

 

[fox]

To test the stall speed of the converter, Warm it up, set the parking brake put your foot on the brake pedal firmly, put it in gear, watch the tach and floor it. What does it read before the tires slip or the parts break?? This technic is not recommended in any diesel application. The reason is that they make so much torque at low rpm they can break things. YOU are your own WARRANTEE station.

These trucks need a lower stall than what Dodge puts in them.

Dodge is trying to give the OTHER guys a chance.

Our job is to stay number 1 !!

To all the guys above who are picking a fight/argument, go get a drink of water and go for a walk.







fox

 

[pwr2tow]

The biggest problem DTT has is every one else tries to explain and do the talking for Bill, if he was allowed to do his own explaining of things, it might get done right the first time by Bill. As the head of a company I don't think he needs a bunch of shade tree mechanics describeing his products or confussing people. DTT supporters are not helping Bill in their antics and if someone with a different brand of transmission parts in their signature asks a question, that person is perceaved as someone trying to create problems. Lighten up guys you are not doing Bill any justice.



Ron

 

[fox]

I was answering Dave's question. And I think I did a good job of it . Thank you.



fox

 

[Bill Kondolay]

tmacc



If the question is what do i consider the maximum reliable hp with an upgraded transmission the best guess 275hp. That is taking into consideration all factors within the transmission.



While granted there are guys out there running with a lot more hp than that how many of them actually have over 100000 miles towing heavy fifth wheel trailers?



The parts we include in our update kits are what we consider the bare essentials, the only thing we have added to that is the billet piston & pressure plate. The cryo parts are not part of the kit.



In order to facilitate the 5 clutch pac, it was necessary to machine the factory piston. What we quickly found out was that a % of the factory pistons were egg shaped and some of the actual width were not true all around. I have been building this particular transmission since it first came out and never noticed the oem piston could be so far out of spec from one piston to the next. The machine shop i use called me when i sent in 100 pistons in for machining and they could not do them all to my specifications. Out of the 100 we sent in only 87 came back , the rest were garbage.

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Stakeman,



The cryoed input shaft and output shaft depending on the expert we talk to in the cryo field varies . Some of them say 25 % improvement in the tortional strength,(sp) some claim as high as 50 % increase . I prefer to stick to the 25% strength when i am talking about them. On the hub because its a cast piece, lets say the numbers jump all over the place. Remember i have to rely on the experts in the field i talk to for relevant information .



Chris's idea of doing a stall test before and after makes the most sense so i volunteer Chris.



Once i move into the new shop i will be doing the test for our own records. Chris Sutton and Lawrence at DD are the two that have tested the system and so far have not broken them.



I still think for the higher hp dodges that are really putting the power to the ground they will have to go to the billet pieces eventually.



The internal components within this transmission can only handle only so much tortional stress. Guys with the 1995 and earlier Rams, Chrysler has already updated the planetary carrier from aluminum to steel becasuse the aluminum carrier were splitting even on the stock rams.

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Dave,



Fox's answer is pretty much bang on, the only thing i can add is if your tires break loose that does not mean you have reached stall speed, that just means your tires broke loose.



I got to repeat this, this is one of the most dangerous methods of testing the efficiency of fluid coupling of your tc.

I personally break parts when doing this type of testing, i have broken an output shaft at 33 lbs of boost , and the 2nd output shaft broke at 38 lbs of boost. While this was R& D for me the question you guys wanting to do this test need to consider is ,

are they sending me a Ford tow truck or GM ? (lol) They sent me a ford.

 

[Bill Kondolay]

I cant help but adding this comment for those of you out there that try to help each other.



I cant tell you how it makes me fell when i see you guys out there trying to help each other. I know a lot of my DTT customers sometimes get a good raking through the coals for it, i do see you guys out there being reffered to the wolf pack, and knuckle draggers and that is hard to see. I know that each of you has paid your hard earned money and done a lot of research have the right to comment as you see fit both positive and negative.



With that being said , the reason we take the time to explain to our customers what we do and why we do it is in the hopes they will understand their trucks and applications better.



An consumer educated about his transmission is going to make it last longer rather than one that thinks its bulletproof.

Guys like Chris Strickland and others are speaking from personal experiences, and some are capable of building their own transmissions. I do read their answers and if they need elaboration and i can contribute i do, most of the time its not necessary.



The point is I appreciate the help .

 

[Bart]

Bill K aka great guy

I don't know who, what, what, when, or why, but I do know that Bill K is one hellva guy. I haven't bought anything from him "yet", but have called (on his dime) and asked a lot of questions. Good answers and personal service. When the time comes and I need trans stuff (which will be soon, darn it) I'll be dealing with MR. Bill K. Nuff said!!

 

[GLowe]

Bill Kondolay

Bill, When you're talking H. P. ratings, are you talking R. W. or Flywheel? Thanks, George

 

[Bill Kondolay]

RW hp

 

[HVAC]

Cryo Treatment

Chris broke his output shaft at his first sled pull one year ago. He and I started talking to a cryo facility in Pallyup (?). It's cheap so it's a no brainer. Bill got the shaft back and sent it down installed in the housing and we installed it.

I've watched Chris at least four more pulls since with no breakage.