Torque Converter

[Mopar-muscle]

dennis , word of warning with that heavy suncoast convertor . watch how you use lockup ... . the input shaft of the dodge trans breaks very easy and the heavy cover on the TC you use makes it an easier task .



as far as lock up , if you had a TC that didn't have a milled stator and put more power to the trans you wouldn't be so gun ho on getting it locked . when i switched from the stock dodge TC to the DTT 91% i went a half sec faster in the 1/4 ... .



i plan on being at muncie next year also ...

 

[Archive]

Mopar-Muscle,

I am aware of the input shaft problem, I have not had one break yet, and if it does break I will make one that will last. As far as the Stator it dosen't make a difference if is it made out of steel or aluminum as long as it doesn't break. As I see you are a DTT installer and that is great, however your intrest with them will of course lean you that direction. I am not saying they don't have a good product, it seems alot of guys are running their TC. I am saying that Suncoast does have a good TC and their is plenty of room on the market for both TCs. Glad to hear you are going to Muncie. This will be one way to answer all of the questions about the TC, which one is better a 91% locking converter or a 100% locking converter. I think this is a great way to test the products of both companies and see how they perform in different situations. I do enjoy R&D, it helps us get the info we need to make these trucks run to their max. See ya Soon



Dennis

 

[Bill Kondolay]

I have spoken with smoker, the current combination he has got is a 308 rear end and a hx 40 with a 16cm housing, it is a 727 non-lock up , and yes he does have over 350 hp, so i gave him a couple of options not including my tc.



I dont feel it is in his best interest with his combination to use a tight converter with his rear end and turbo combination , he will have too much turbo lag.



Dperry1,



Let me make something perfectly clear here, i personally take offence to your inference that our tc's are even in the same league.



As you yourself pointed out, the Suncoast TC is incapable of transferring the hp in fluid coupling with the oem milled stator in .



You have to have lock it up to make it work as you also pointed out. What that tells me is that the Suncoast advertising of 97% fluid coupling is a BS, or was that measurement taken going downhill.



I replace enough Suncoast TC's to know the lockup clutch is very weak. I find it interesting that you assume our tc's have no lock up because our customers dont seem to care about it.



Let me make this perfectly clear , just because i dont consider lock up to be a big deal does not mean our tc does not have it.



Just because we do not use lockup as a marketing ploy does not mean our lock up system is weaker, as a matter of fact it is 16 % stronger than anything on the market, including Suncoast, Dunrite, BD, Protorque ect . The simple fact is lying to consumers always gets companies into trouble.



TDR members , here is a little something you guys should know about how these companies use lockup to market and decieve consumers.



Testing the lockup clutch system on a dyno to prove they can handle 500 hp, really doesnt amount to a hill of beans in the real world.



On a dyno, they are going take a reading above 28oo rpms, that is when the tc clutch is at its strongest point.



Anyone of you towing a a trailer that keep your rpms above 2800 rpms please raise your hands because you are the only guys this type of testing will benefit.



Most tc failures happen below 2000 rpms and these companies damn well know that, that is why they dont test at the lower rpms.



Funny thing is, that is the rpms that most guys drive at. If you guys look at your tach when you are driving you will notice most of you are driving at about 1600 or 1700 rpms in od locked up. Ask them about that.





As a matter of fact even a factory tc with the factory vb at around 2800 rpms will handle over 350hp at that kind of rpm for a while, at least long enought for the dyno testing.



So my point is , the numbers have no real meaning .



The rotating mass of the Suncoast TC, causes broken input shafts , worn out pump bushings that lead to premature tc clutch failure. i see this every week .



Guys that believed the Suncoast propaganda and faithfully listened to guys like Dennis, find themselves alone when the tc and transmission packs it in.



As i had already spoken to smoker and gave him my best advice i was going to stay out of this one, but with the bs i see Dennis starting to spouting to a guy that has no lock up just got me because there may be others out there that believed it.



Dennis, if you are a vendor or rep for a company say so, at least the guys listening to you know your affiliation and have a fighting chance.

 

[azgearpro]

DTT

You gotta love BIll K. he has **LLs of steel. The scary part is he Knows what he is talking about. I have met him personally and he is the man.

I had the chance to drive a truck that was the same year as mine, and it was equipted with the sun coast, and let me tell you there is no comparison at all, up at high end it loses its effieciency. Just my 2 cents

 

[Archive]

Bill Kondolay,



Sure didnt mean to ruffle feathers here. Like I pointed out I am very happy with my Suncoast torque converters on both my diesel trucks. I saw Smokers post and offered my opinion. No one is saying that you dont have a good torque converter please dont take it so personal. It's just like computer chips they are not all alike. It would be a shame if consumers only had one choice. When people ask me about torque converters I have had a good experience with Suncoast and usually refer them there. No I am not a vendor for torque converters just a user. I have not had the problems that you mentioned in your posting above.



Different Strokes for different folks or should I say different Torques for different folks. Like anything else it's all just a matter of choice.



Dennis

 

[Mopar-muscle]

dennis , i may be a DTT trained installer but i take offense to the fact that you accuse me of being biased because of that affiliation .



yes i do reccommed it to people , not because its what i install , but because i feel its the best out there . Bill knows that if i felt someone elses was better it would be A) , in my truck , and B) i would be talking it up . i paid FULL RETAIL for the components in my transmission as i bought them long before i became an installer of the product . i researched for 6 months so i only had to do it ONCE.



i have driven a suncoast , a protorque and the new BD Xstator , the DTT TC gets the job done better than the rest when unlocked , once you lock the TC they are all equal in that they all tramsit 100% power . how you set up pressures and such is the difference between how well they hold , and thats a different story.



you seem confused ( or don't care as you sell a different product ?? ) as to the DTT ratings which are based on unlocked performance not locked .



again , i just gave the heads up on input shaft breakage because other TC makers must mask the inefficency of their convertors with a heavy steel cover as a heatsink for the slippage that occurs when they lock .

 

[MCummings]

Texas TDR Rally in Kerrville.



One thing I remember, and wince at when driving an auto that goes into lock up under WOT.



A 500 RPM drop when going into lock-up heats the TC Clutch and immediate fluid to 1,400*F.



I hope I am remembering Right Bill. I know you'll chime in if I'm wrong.



MerrickNJr



P. S. My clutch is finally saying goodbye. can't go to 1/2 throttle in 4th and 5th gear. (at 2,600RPM+ I can go WOT) (DD1's + PE COMP on 5/5 like always )

 

[Archive]

Mopar-Muscle,

I am glad you did your homework, that's not the issue here, your being a DTT Installer is not the issue either. The issue at hand was that Smoker had a question about torque converters, one members tells him to call Bill Kondalay and I tell him to call Ron or Joe at Suncoast. That gave Smoker 2 options, which I think was pretty good. Apparently DTT and some followers felt threatened by my post and decide to try and run Suncoast Coverters down. your actions are not very professional and it makes DTT look as if they have something to hide.



Bill Kondalay,

Your son Stefan Kondalay e-mail me an told me your company was going to make converters for the Ford PowerStroke as well and since I had met him in Muncie and told him that I was going to be needing a converter before long, He stated that if I was still interested in buying one to contact him. I had already had my appointment at the time. So I decided that if I was unhappy with my Suncoast converter I would give him a call and make arrangements to try one of DTT's. Well I must say I am glad I did not change my mind and go with DTT, your use of a public forum to discredit another company in order to make yours look better is very unprofessional. Nobody said you had a bad product, the whole time I was at Suncoast they never once said a discrediting word about any other company. I was simply told what I should expect from their converters and they preformed like they said they would. That is known as Professionalism and I now have seen I made a GREAT choice



Dennis

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by Dperry1

... your use of a public forum to discredit another company in order to make yours look better is very unprofessional and is also known as slander, which could be used against you in a court of law.

Use of a public forum to make a negative statement regarding another is not slander. Use of a public forum to knowingly make an untrue negative statement regarding another is a different matter. The crux of the matter, then, is has Bill said anything that is patently untrue?



Rusty

 

[MCummings]

#ad
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Whoa guys,, don't get all on fire flamin' everybody.



Capitalism here guys,, not communism. Buy what your research tells you to.



MerrickNJr

 

[Archive]

RustyJC,

You are correct, got a little carried away and I edited it. It is still unprofessional, DTT has a good product and so does Suncoast I don't see a need to run another company down just to make yours look better. Personally I like the TC to lock up 100%, that is my opinion. If someone else has a different thought that's fine for their opinion. If your products perform like they are supposed to then they will sell. I delt with the same kinda of conflicts on the other sites as well, I just feel it is very uncalled for.



Dennis

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by Dperry1

Personally I like the TC to lock up 100%, that is my opinion. If someone else has a different thought that's fine for their opinion.

Guess my first post was taken in the wrong way. My point was he has a 727 transmission - NON lock up convertor in his truck, thats how the early ones came from the factory. So comaparing your lock up one vs his non lock up wouldn't be a very fair comparision because you said yourself... . you feel lock up is heart and soul of your truck.



That was my point.

 

[azgearpro]

lock up

Ok whats the deal on 100% lock up. Who said that Bills' doesnt lock up 100%?

What are you smokin?

The advantage of the DTT convertor is from the start, you are able to convert 91% of the power of your cummins to the ground before you go to lock up. No other converter can do that. If you lived where I do that is very inportant because every where I go there is a 6 or 7% grade. I can understand were you are coming from living in Ky where there is no mountains, so a loose convertor wouldnt matter as much.

It is also the only convertor that offers a lifetime warrenty on the stator.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

Originally posted by Dperry1

Mopar-Muscle, ...

... your actions are not very professional and it makes DTT look as if they have something to hide.

Dennis

i'm confused also ... my actions were unprofessional ? all i did was give you a word of warning that was passed on to me from people that have actually broken input shafts with suncoast convertors bolted between their cummins and dodge auto transmission . to date i know of no one else having done the same thing with ANY other makers convertor .



is helping out a fellow member avoid a costly repair unprofessional ?



i'm with azgearpro , what's with this 100% lockup BS ???? if you know something about lockup that no one else knows why don't you share it please . when my convertor , or any other for that matter that i have tested , has locked up they have all been locked up 100% ... except for those that were slipping , in that case they were locked up 0% you are either locked or not locked , anything in between is slippage and the TC is not going to last very long .



if DTT TCs were slipping and people were going elsewhere to replace them because DTT wouldn't stand behind it , then you know that a person doing these changes would be putting this info up to let others beware . haven't seen that either , and DTT stands behind the product 100% ... still trying to figure out what DTT is trying to hide ???

 

[Joe G.]

Less than 100% lockup?

Would someone explain how a torque converter clutch that does not lock up 100% lives? Slipping is what thrashes them in the first place. If they don't slip then they are locked up 100% Am I missing something here? If you produce enuff torque you WILL slip the TCC! If you are not slipping the thing at full lock up the truck is a LOT slower than some of the TDR members' trucks.

 

[Bob Wagner]

at least the t/c threads are 100%

every t/c thread end up being a ******* match



Dennis the DTT 89% 91% 93% rating's are unlocked percentages



like they say its either 100% locked or its slipping



let the ******* continue#ad

 

[Archive]

OK let me see if I can make my statement a little more clear. I agree that lock up is 100%, I am refering to 100% effiency in a converter. It is my understanding that the DTT converter will unlock at a given boost level? I like my converter to be 100% locked up at WOT. It is also my understanding that Suncoast and DTT stays approx 100 rpm range going into lock up. If you will look at the TDR issue #34 page 118 written by John Holmes. He preformed a test with the Suncoast Torque Converter, this is a MUST READ article, it explains exactly what I am trying to get across.

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY BILL KONDALAY

Just because we do not use lockup as a marketing ploy does not mean our lock up system is weaker, as a matter of fact it is 16 % stronger than anything on the market, including Suncoast, Dunrite, BD, Protorque ect . The simple fact is lying to consumers always gets companies into trouble.

I don't understand if it is 16% stronger then why do you not want it locking up at WOT



I have done a little research and have the following people's permission to post the following:



Jeff Garmin

Southern Truck Parts

Atlanta, GA

1-800-608-3888

www.Dieselhp.com

4750 lbs. 12v 550hp Suncoast converter, Pro-Loc transmission

1/4 mile 12. 10 @ 108 mph NO DRUGS



Chip Wheeler

Clevland, TX

713-957-0366

2001 24v 500hp Suncoast Converter, Valve Body

1/4 mile 12. 72



Blue Chip Performance

Chip Fisher

1-888-628-7373

Over 200 Suncoast Converters Sold NO FAILURES



These Gentlemen said it would be fine to contact them for References.



The List goes on... I know the DTT users have big power also. I think every converter company has their own way of making a converter and how they use their product for performance. I also think these forums can help us in making our decisions in which company we would like to deal with. As long as the product performs to our satisfaction and we are happy then we have made the best choice.

 

[Briar Hopper]

azgearpro, we got mountains in Kentucky. Maybe not as high as the Rockies or Sierra Nevada, but plenty high enough to give my 'ol mule a workout. Course, where Dennis lives, it's kinda flat.

 

[CumminsAholic]

My stock converter locks up 100% at WOT. It does it because it's very inefficient. If it wouldn't lock up, I'd be redlined at 70 mph , that'd be pretty bad for the 1/4 mile time and when I wanted to pass someone on the freeway quickly I couldn't. With a DTT TC, my understanding is that it won't have to lock up til later, when it's less harmful. But, I can probably go 90mph without lockup because it's so much more efficient when out of lock-up. I've been looking at TC's for about a year now. As far as I can see nobody has one that can compare to Bills. I know he'll do a head to head competition with anyone anytime, will anybody else do that? If so then I want to see it. If somebody thinks they're better then prove it and I'll use their product. I want the best on my truck and it's going in this winter.

Corey

 

[Mopar-muscle]

dennis , i'll let bill answer the 16% thing , its his product and i'll not give out info i have been told , its not my place to say .



as far as unlocking at a certian boost , another thing you have been lead to believe incorrectly , the TC is not controlled by boost so it will not unlock unless its told to by the ECM and last i knew bill isn't able to change codes in the ecm , my tc stays locked once its locked till i let off the loud peddle .



as far as the big hub bub about not being concerned about lock so much , its because the TC puts more power to the trans than ANY other TC period . all the tc's i have driven give you a big jump into lock up just like the stock TC , when i was stock i couldn't get into lockup fast enough , now lockup is used for its designed purpose , fuel economy and keeping the trans cool , not putting the power to the ground because of the stator designed to work at the HP peak instead of in the torque band .



last i heard diesels are all about torque , not horsepower ???



again with the 100% locked ... you are either locked or unlocked/slipping ... sorry ... and NO TC is 100% efficent unlocked , if it were it would stall the truck when you tryed to stop.



i'll chime in on one vendor you posted and claims of no failed suncoast convertors , blue chip , i went for a test ride in truck with a suncoast TC and the guy driving was slipping it , and he told me it wasn't the first .



i'll even tell you of a guy that was slipping a DTT TC , he had a mystery switch and was lugging it on a dyno just to prove to me that he could slip it . i don't know of any TC that will survive torture like that .