Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Torque Converter

[GLASMITHS]

Bill:



Your driving sounds very close to mine. I read your previous post like you were driving in o/d at 1600 .



On a recent trip I tried towing at 60 mph in o/d. The egt was 675 post turbo. in third and GV locked it was 580. About 300 rpm higher. The boost was a pound or so higher. So those low rpm runs ain't good.



I saw a scale or table from Cummins somewhere and for my truck 98. 5 24V, the best overall speed was 2050. So I try to keep it near there. Except a steep, long hill and then run it up to 24-26.



On my last trip to WV 3 weeks ago, 2250 miles used 180 gal. That is 12. 5 overall. Most flat to rolling, some 5-7% up and down, some 28-30# boost You have to know the elbow is in place. I'm ready to go again; too much work.

 

[StakeMan]

Correct me if I'm wrong Glasmiths,



It was my understanding that the DTT transmission without the smart controller has a delayed lockup. Meaning that anything above a certain percentage of throtle would disengage the lock up clutch.



If JConley didn't have the smart controller wouldn't that change the way his worked compared to yours?



You will get many heated opinions about auto transmission upgrades on this site. My advice as always is to make phone calls and if possible ride in trucks equiped with different trannies and take into account the HP that each truck has.

 

[Lsfarm]

Automatics

Stakeman: the Dtt smart controller can be set to run WTO in lock up, but Bill designed it to run in fluid drive except for drag racing. I kind of like my tc to unlock at wot, it gives a few hundred extra revs which in my truck helps keep the egt's down. Then I let it lock up for the last bit of speed. [freeway driving]



ROB: you are as always FOS about sticks vs Automatics! [ This is going to be fun ]



Lets see, If I remember correctly I've heard you say:



HOW MUCH boost do you have at the launch?? Really?



HOW MUCH boost do you lose with each shift? Really, that's ALL? :{



S**T! I went from 2nd to 5th, you should have smelled the clutch!!



Yea, that's the clutch chattering, they all do it.



Yea, it always grinds with that shift, at least untill the trans warms up. :{



[I can't wait for Rob's reply!! ]



Greg L, the noise nazi

 

[StakeMan]

Lsfarm,



What happens if you don't have the smart controller?



LOL, I think your right about Rob.

 

[GLASMITHS]

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY????

STAKEMAN:



Yes, the DTT torque converter unlocks at a preselected throttle position. It would not be considered a delay



You are correct in saying that JConleys DTT v/b would not shift like mine , which has all the DTT components (?). And that is my bone of contention.



Does he just have the ATS v/b or does he have it all. It is not right to compare apples and oranges. And that is what he is trying to do.



I took out a BD t/c when i upgraded. I didn't try to compare it to others, because I did not have all their equipment, so how could a person pass judgement on something he does not have.



I do not see the need to make any phone calls. If we can't have discussions on here with out getting your drawers in a knot, then just don't post. I do that often. No big deal. When all I could contribute is bs, I keep my mouth shut.

 

[Lsfarm]

It will run locked up

Stakeman, I was talking with Stephan the other day, and he told me that if I just remove the SmartBox, then it will shift into lockup and stay locked up at WOT.



I was kind of bummed by this info, cause I ran a 14. 12 at Muncie, and if I had run locked in OD, I may have broken into the 13's!!



Greg L the noise nazi

 

[KatDiesel]

Re: ATS Line Pressures

Originally posted by dramer

The transmission line pressures that we use for the majority of the transmissions is

70 Psi Base line

120 Psi WOT unlocked

140 Psi WOT Locked Up

We use elevated line pressure for the transmission clutches. Our converter can be used with a stock transmission with NO line pressure increase. There are many more modifications that we make in the valve body also. I hope this will help a little.



Don Ramer

Thank you for posting this Don.



Everyone I have asked to date didn't know the answer.

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by TKilgore

Kat, just curious, how do Mr. Ramer's pressures compare to yours?

Just so I have accurrate info I'll try to have new readings by the end of this weeks.



Last I remember it was 75 psi baseline. But I have changed from a shiftkit, to a complete valvebody.



Hope to have an answer for you by Friday.

 

[GLASMITHS]

What happens if you have no box

Stakeman:



Sorry, I missed your question. It reverts to DC or factory shifts or control.



In town, often I turn the box off. And everything is factory. Usually drive in 3rd direct.

 

[BTiner]

Re: Thanks for the Kudos

Originally posted by inarush76

Thanks WyoJim,BriarHopper,Danandme for the kind words.



BTiner, are you going to be at the Dallas club meeting this coming weekend the 12th? I will try to answer any questions you may have concerning an upgrade on your truck. Or email me your number and I'll give you a call if you want to talk before then. There a number of club members I have upgraded trannies for, I bet any one of them would let you ride/drive their truck. Hope to see you there.



James Northum

James, I will be at the meeting Sat. the 12th



Bill

 

[BTiner]

Originally posted by JConley

Take a test drive in both a DTT truck and an ATS truck, and decide what you like best. I live in Austin, and have a full ATS setup. If you want to see the difference in lockup versus fluid coupling let me know and I could meet you half way. I am very happy with my ATS setup, and the truck puts a lot more power to the ground. With the DTT setup, you stay in fluid coupling under full power. With the ATS setup, you can have EITHER fluid coupling OR lockup. Trust me... you are going to love lockup!!



Either way, you need to do something NOW!



Kat... my pressures are stock, whatever that is...

JConley, I might take you up on a test drive. I,m meeting with James Northum this Sat. and will make up my mind as to which way to go.



BTiner

 

[Rob Thomas]

Re: Automatics

Originally posted by Lsfarm

ROB: you are as always FOS about sticks vs Automatics! [ This is going to be fun ]



[I can't wait for Rob's reply!! ]

Damn Greg,



That was below the belt, I new I shoulda got a picture of you AUTO EQUIPPED TRUCK on the TRAILER, on it's way to the dealer! Which you didn't seem to mind it being towed, by my 6-speed.



How have those auto's been holdin' up in the sled-pulls?:-laf



Or, towing up a somewhat steep incline? I seem to remember a post in another thread, where a guy in a souped-up auto, after stoppin' on the side of the road, couldn't get the truck to move without startin' off in 4-low range? Huh, weird, eh?



Yep, I did slip the clutch, however it was driver error, (yes, I made a mistake ) aparently I can't shift from 2nd to 5th without slipage, in which I was in a panic to show-up a guy with nitrious, oops.



BTW Greg, Hows the MINIVAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-laf



Later, Still drivin' my STOCK MANUAL TRANS, Rob

 

[Snow man]

Lsfarm,if you have the regular 89%,it will not lock up WOT,so you wouldnt have gained anything,-if you have the 89 race tc,then it would have locked,and you would have dropped about . 2et ,and added 2-3 mph trap speed. I have the regular 89%,and have tried to force it to lock WOT,it will now lock,even though the mystery switch is tellling it to. It will lock if you back off for a second,let it lock,then hammer it,it will stay locked then. Gladsmiths, the DTT TC will only unlock if you have either the TC saver,or the smart controller,once the DTT TC is locked it behaves like a normal TC,and will not unlock unless the puter commands it to,just as it would tell an ATS or stock tc to unlock. I have the smart controller,and the way its set up,you have the ability to brake in OD,it will shift locked to 3rd by itself, at your preset speed,and if you want to drop to 2nd for even more braking,pull the lever,I can pull mine into 2nd at 37 mph or under,with 4. 10's its screams if i try it above 40 mph. The smart controller will allow the truck to upshift from 2nd to 3rd then 4th,lock to lock,it shifts real hard,and it cant be good for it,so i either turn off the smart controller,or push down on the throttle to the point that the tc saver kicks in,and releases lockup,then it shifts unlocked thru the grs. While the smart controler can be set to run WOT into lockup,it works best if it is set to unlock at about 80% throttle. The trans will not downshift for passing correctly if its not set to unlock,it will stay in 4th gr,and lug for to long before kicking down,If ATS doesnt have this feature to unlock the TC,id like to know how they get it to downshift quickly,like in a passing situation,say at 47 mph,truck is on OD,you stab it to the floor,it just lugs and labors,then a few seconds later it finally kicks down,lock to lock the whole truck jerks,as the engine tries to regain steam,and finally it begins to accerate,by this time a yugo could have passed. with the tc saver on you stab it,it jumps out of lockup,and instantly kicks down 2 gears,and takes off. Id be interested in how the ATS controller does in this situation,if it keeps the tc locked. While were on pressures,my VB is set at 87 psi right now,it has been as low as 78,and as high as 93 psi. It likes 87 the best. I didnt notice any difference in temps or holding power at my hp level (415)RWHP,from 78 to 93,it held at both levels fine.

 

[JConley]

Hey Glas



Sorry I got your ". . bone of contention"... in an uproar.



Btiner... I am going down to the valley this weekend, so I wont be around until next weekend. If you need to make your decision this weekend, James will take good care of you, and you will be very happy with your truck after he is done.



Good Luck!

 

[Strick-9]

Snow man,



Good post. I was sitting down to clear up a few misconceptions, but you beat me to it.



I can answer your question about how the ATS transmission operates with the controller though. It stays locked up and lugs. They do make the modification in the VB to allow locked up 4-3 downshifts though. So when the PCM commands the downshift it does happen. But like you say, it's nowhere near instantaneous. And that varies from truck to truck as the PCM programming has changed a LOT over ther years. Earlier trucks would rarely come out of 4th. Guys with heavy lowend fueling or big turbos, really make a scene.



A DTT torque converter does NOT unlock at a preselected throttle position. An electrical box can be built (tc saver, smart controller, boost disconnect) to perform this function though.



Although it may seem that there are only 'normal' DTT torque converters and 'race' torque converters. That is not necessarily true. Everything is custom tailored to the individual truck/driver. Even down to the torque converter. Some people get manual 2nd gear downshifts, and some do not. Some get higher/lower pressures and harder/softer shifts. But there are reasons for every action.



As the buying public becomes more educated, we can ask more intelligent questions to our vendors to get the best products for our application.



Although we do bicker from time to time about our trannies. We are all learning a great deal here. Just think about two years ago, how many people could discuss TC's and when and how and why they lockup. Two years ago, we were all installing mystery switches and having a great time for about a year then rebuilding because we thought the trannies were just weak. Back then, anyone over 400HP had a 5-speed because no auto would live. My how times are changing.



-Chris

 

[danandamy]

Originally posted by BTiner

After installing the Power Edge EZ box and pulling my 11,000 lb. 5th wheel trailer I started having tc slippage from 4th into OD lockup and from and from 3rd into lockup. I was told that I needed to replace my tc with a heavey duty tc with a machined billet, such as the ones sold by ATS and Sun Coast. If you were replacing your tc which one would you go with? Any help will be appreciated.

________________________________________________



1998. 5 2500, QC 2x4 LWB, A/T, 3. 54,275 injectors, K&E filter,PacBrake,Shift kit, All gauges,EZ box,

lock up switch,

Just to get us back on topic here (yeah right, transmission threads always turn into the same topic)... .



As you can see B Tiner, there are several good transmission companies out there. I would like to throw another name in the mix and that's Dave Goerand. Do a search and you will find some info about his stuff. I don't have it personally but have heard good things and the $$is lower. The folks that run his stuff on the board usually don't say much, I don't know why Other than that, as you can see, everyone really likes their transmission set up :-{} The ATS set up is relatively new to these boards but so far we're getting good reports back on it. The DTT stuff has been with us longer and the folks that run it are obviously just as passionate about it as well. I can tell you, I don't see any huge transmission temps with my dtt vb and converter (I stress converter because that's where you will generate heat). My truck being a 95 has the 47rh so it behaves a little differently, you have to feather the throttle to achieve lock up and I will be honest, that's probably the one feature of the set up I find annoying at times but other than that I am quite pleased. Bottom line, either way will be a step up from what you have and you will be hard pressed to go wrong either way.



trannywarmoderator dan

"Always the voice of reason"

 

[StakeMan]

Sorry Glasmiths, I thought the discussion was going well. I didn't see anyone getting thier panties in a bunch.



I do have one question tho.



I remember when the DTT transmission first came out and how everyone raived about not needing lockup anymore. Now it seems that with the addition of the controllers, most of you want lockup until WOT. Why the change?



No flames intended. Just curious.



(full body flame shield installed)

 

[Snow man]

Stakeman, I have a pacbrake,so lockup is essential. I only want mine to lock when the PCM calls for it,which is cruising,or WOT in 3rd,then to 4th locked on the 2000-2002's. I do know that with my DTT TC i no longer need lockup,if i wanted i could disable it,and drive it and be 95% happy with it,the fluid coupling is that good IMO. But at higher speeds, in OD,i think lockup should be used,and it is ,as far as i know,in all DTT setups,and has always been,unless an electrical box(tc saver. or smart controller is used,it wil stay in lockup all the time that the factory one would.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

My $0.02

I was towing a 4k tt up a 8-9% dirt road this past weekend at between 10 and 20 mph. After about 5 minutes of this the transmission temp got up to 280 and I decided to stop for a while and let it cool down. This was with a dtt 91% converter. It always gets very hot any time it is not in lockup.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

I believe lock up converters became more or less standard at around 94. The reason they were designed was the cafe requirments. Lockup is for better fuel economy. I see great economy on the open road because the fluid coupling is defeated. The reason in the old days the sticks economy was so much better was mostly the tc's fault. Now with lockups the autos have less than the sticks still,but comparible mileage. And when lockup is achieved so much more power gets to the ground. I really feel the lockup in my truck, Like I hit the afterburner cause the efficiency of a locked tc is much better than fluid coupling. I dont see any reason why anyone would defeat the lockup portion. More heat less power to the ground.