Towing Wander.....

[SnoKing]

Deleted dup

 

[SnoKing]

All good points to consider. Texas inspection on the trailer is due in April. When I take it in I'll go by the scales. Weighing is a pain in Texas. Have to go to a commercial scale. When I live in Oregon all the scales were accusable when closed to the public. I have my weights listed buy can't find the paperwork. All the suggestions are great. I have them listed and work down the list and work down them before our next trip in June. Thank's again.

Start with air pressure!!!

 

[Cummins12V98]

"Need to also consider the gear load (currently unknown) that goes in the bed."

That is why I stated to weigh the axles!

Proper air pressure gets you best ride, longest tire life and best stopping ability.

60k on these tires!

 

[Turbo Terry]

I went thru 3 sets of these LTX tires on my old 99 as summer tires . Checking air pressure Excellent tires . But nothing even close to 60 k

 

[slowmover]

New tires squirm a while. On a big truck it’s 4-6,000-miles before they’ll settle-in all the way.

Use a CAT Scale to get proper axle weight values. Ck tire pressure after sitting overnight and before sun hits them. After CAT ticket, ck and adjust up/down by using the cold number set against the Load & Pressure Table. Ck again next morning to fine tune.

Stay inside vehicle manufacturers range.

After running 45-mph+ steady-state for 90”, ease off road with least use of service brakes. Look for 5-7% pressure rise to be the ideal. 7-9% with 121-Index tires add 5-psi.

Looking to establish the minimum. (One can go above, but there soon appears a point where braking & handling decline).

The above testing applies to solo or towing.

Keep a notecard attached to appropriate scale ticket as reference with numbers derived & adjusted.

I didn’t see where the previous tire brand/model was noted. Even among the same brand the carcass is different. Michelin has sidewalls softer than some. Not a bad thing, just different.

In choosing between the 121-Index tires one will note they recommend the LTX Defender for the RV’er who mainly runs solo/empty, but the AGILIS for contractors, etc, almost always hooked to a trailer.

There’s no free lunch in buying the Agilis to compensate if it doesn’t match exact use description, as there’s usually a trade-off the operator won’t like (more to it than ride quality).

There’s a bewildering range of Steer Axle tires for big trucks. Not even close to 2-3/choices. Exactitude in matching tire to use is big money to operators.

Replacing with new steer tires every 70k miles can be every 5-6/months at annual mileage rates in some categories. $$$ if you guess wrong.


1). On a truck with 75k the shocks need to be changed out for KONI or BILSTEIN at entry level. Not Monroe or Gabriel.

2). The FF/RR Antiroll Bar bushings (mounts & links) need to be changed to polyurethane (will act faster & more consistently than rubber without harshening ride. Cheap, too). This is a reduction in both degree & duration in steering inputs.

3). For purposes of testing the TT tires need to be to max sidewall rating. After all else, reduce as desired (axle values plus some more). Trailer tires suffer from Interply Shear (see Roger Marble blog). 3-5/years service is long enough.

4). Steering column shaft slop is possible. Magnified by tires. If it has bushings, see fixes.

5). Age rots rubber, so leaf spring eye bushing replacement not expensive for parts (just a PITA). It takes a lot of strain when the trailer is being moved.

— Same for cab bushings. And any other frame/body bushings. Towing exaggerates the wear rate, and it’s an eye-opener the change (why folks praise their brand new truck over one 5-7/years old is directly related to this).

6). While not directly related it is felt at the wheel when tire balance is improved past standard clip or glue weights: CENTRAMATIC, or COUNTERACT. Do both vehicles. We read the road thru the tires. Getting “noise” out of that system is beneficial.

7). Standard trailer leaf suspensions are China junk. Wear is FAST. Expect that bushings are worn with anything past 5k miles, and that a thorough inspection (R&R) is needed. MOR/ryde is an aftermarket supplier of renown. I’d choose their upgrades. (The truck tire change may just have magnified — drawn your attention — to “more” going on. 4WD trucks have horrible feedback, almost non-existent).

IMO, while I’d only recommend torsion axles as the way to spend money on the TT suspension (major handling & braking improvement), if you don’t then the leaf suspension ALSO needs shock absorbers and crossmembers between hangers. The premium travel trailers of the golden age (upmarket from Airstream) had all these features. Reduce the trailer squiggling against its suspension.


— There’s more (setting up WDH using Cat Scale values), but that’s past tire squirm Q’s.


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[ramduk]

Thanks for the info and a list to work down. The Mich. Defenders are the same tire I had on before. I am putting new Bilstein shocks on the truck. The trailer spring bushings have been replaced and it has new tires. Next month I'll haul it to the scale and adjust air pressures accordingly. The trailer has shocks which have about 20,000 miles on them. I was not aware of the Agilis model of tire but the Defenders worked well accordingly. I do have so slop in my hitch head that I will rectify before towing again. The trailer is a older Arctic Fox with the conventional suspension. A heavy trailer with a strong frame. Rogers blog is definitely informative.

 

[slowmover]

Typical low constriction trailer one aims at 10-11% TW

TT can be up to 15%, but hitting 12.5-13% is pretty much gold for WDH purposes.

Equal-I-Zer the last choice in WDH. Looks good, but that’s it.

WDH work best with significant bar deflection. More the better, overall. Too stiff exaggerates TV rear spring stiffness (as with what you have).

If the TV is significantly loaded in rear prior to hitching (80% GAWR), it won’t matter as much as it’s under more tension.

Steer Axle unhitched & hitched should be close to the same on CAT Scale, same day. Both vehicles loaded for camping (with full propane & fresh water); with all passengers aboard both times.

It’s not the difference in weight on Steer Axle, it’s the percentage of transfer after WD tension applied.

Second weigh (after first where it’s all buttoned up)!is hitched and bars slack. Third is after dropping trailer.

You can figure TW with accuracy this way, against TT weight.

“FALR

1). “If you want to use the scales data to determine tongue weight, and if you want to get the maximum information about your TV/TT combination and how well your weight distrtibution system is working, you need data from three weighings. Second and third weighings usually are done at a lower cost.

And, you need to find a scales with at least three separate weighing platforms so you can separately measure all three axle loads at the same time. Most, perhaps all, CAT scales have this feature.

If you need any help in interpreting the scales results, just post the numbers. There are several ORF members who can help with the calculations.

First, the TV and TT should be loaded approximately as they would be for camping.

Second, the weight distribution system should be adjusted as it normally would be for towing.

Then, I would do the following:

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated
Let Front Axle Load be "FA1"
Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1"
Let TT Axles Load be "TT1"

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated (WD bars unloaded, but hanging in place)
Let Front Axle Load be "FA2"
Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2"
Let TT Axles Load be "TT2"

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached
Let Front Axle Load be "FA3"
Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3"

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)
{should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct}

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System is Activated = TT1 - TT2

This procedure should get you on and off the scales fairly quickly and still provide all the data you need.”

(Via the late Ron Gratz)

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[ramduk]

Thanks again for the info....

 

[ramduk]

In re-reading the last post. I noticed you said the E-Qual-i-zer is the last choice for WDH. Why is this? I have used this system with great results for the last 30+ yrs. with no problem until now. I am curious what you would recommend that is of a reasonable price.

 

[AH64ID]

Equal-I-Zer is a fantastic and well respected hitch, stick with it.

It’s work looking over and making sure everything is still tight. I have had to replace the sockets a couple times, but I also do a lot of rough road towing.

 

[crispyboy]

The only thing going against the Equalizer is that they use square weight distribution bars vs a round tapered weight distribution bar. The round tapered bar will give a much better ride to both the tow vehicle and trailer. This matters more to people who own Airstream travel trailers as these need to be treated with kid gloves when it comes the ride. If not there is a possibility of popping rivets. Also with a compliant ride there are less things thrown about in the camper going down the road. I use a Hensley Arrow hitch with the tapered bars. The setup allows you to dial in the weight distribution and give you a smooth ride.

 

[endoscott]

If those are original shocks and 20,000 miles I bet they are shot. I re-did my suspension on our AF trailer and had a little trouble figuring out correct replacement shock, but a phone call to Thunder RV and they had part number, I think they were Koni replacement shocks and originals were Chinese junk, just wasted.

 

[ramduk]

Not originals....3rd set of shocks. Trailer is a 2003 probably has 50,000 + miles on it. I think the last set were Monroes.

 

[endoscott]

Ah, probably in good shape then

 

[AH64ID]

The only thing going against the Equalizer is that they use square weight distribution bars vs a round tapered weight distribution bar. The round tapered bar will give a much better ride to both the tow vehicle and trailer. This matters more to people who own Airstream travel trailers as these need to be treated with kid gloves when it comes the ride. If not there is a possibility of popping rivets. Also with a compliant ride there are less things thrown about in the camper going down the road. I use a Hensley Arrow hitch with the tapered bars. The setup allows you to dial in the weight distribution and give you a smooth ride.

While I don’t have an airstream, or a fragile trailer, I can say that the square bar has provided a better ride than the tapered round bars.

It is import to not oversize your bars thou, but that’s the case on any WDH.

 

[tusslesebi09]

My best guess is either a neutral or slight tow out alignment. I aligned my MINI very neutral with no toe for autocross about 14 years ago.

 

[slowmover]

The only thing going against the Equalizer is that they use square weight distribution bars vs a round tapered weight distribution bar. The round tapered bar will give a much better ride to both the tow vehicle and trailer. This matters more to people who own Airstream travel trailers as these need to be treated with kid gloves when it comes the ride. If not there is a possibility of popping rivets. Also with a compliant ride there are less things thrown about in the camper going down the road. I use a Hensley Arrow hitch with the tapered bars. The setup allows you to dial in the weight distribution and give you a smooth ride.

Any brand TT.

The best of the integrated anti-sway WDH is the original, the REESE Dual Cam. It takes longer to dial-in and is more sensitive to changes. That’s the advantage.

Torsion bar compliance is significant in tempering the vehicle interactions.

The Hensley-patent hitches made the conventional ones obsolete over twenty years ago. A whole other class of performance.

The hitch is a steering component the moment it’s locked. Time in getting it referenced (acquired numbers; measured & scaled) is what sets apart otherwise identical rigs: one will drive well and the other nine won’t.

It’s exceedingly rare I see a TT riding level on the highway from across the Interstate at 2700-miles/week average. That’s not “nose down”, that’s awesomely poor hitch rigging just as a beginning.

Tire squirm is an eye-opener. Shows how delicate is the relation of things. Camber changes, crosswinds, close traffic strip away confidence (rightly) when the tire contact patch is feeling like it’s getting ready to change.

• Setting WDH is a last step prior to adjusting and testing tire pressure

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[Tuesdak]

The Mich. Defenders are the same tire I had on before.

You changed tires to "new" and PROBLEM. Although I love the wear life of LT Michelin tires: they squirm more than other brands forever. Not just the Green Tire short mile range. I choose other brands FIRST because of this known known for Michelin tires. Others, like my Dad, like the softer ride of Michelin tires.

It's also possible you have a defective new tire.

If you can still use the ride guarantee: Get something else on the truck. Cooper AT3's etc.

Everything else you are doing after "New Tires = problem" is chasing your tail until you deal with different tires.

 

[SnoKing]

You changed tires to "new" and PROBLEM. Although I love the wear life of LT Michelin tires: they squirm more than other brands forever. Not just the Green Tire short mile range. I choose other brands FIRST because of this known known for Michelin tires. Others, like my Dad, like the softer ride of Michelin tires.

It's also possible you have a defective new tire.

If you can still use the ride guarantee: Get something else on the truck. Cooper AT3's etc.

Everything else you are doing after "New Tires = problem" is chasing your tail until you deal with different tires.

NOT only did he get new tires, he drove away with them way over inflated for the empty load and the load on them when he hooked up to his trailer. If I was him I would not panic until he does a tow with properly inflated tires.

 

[Tuesdak]

NOT only did he get new tires, he drove away with them way over inflated for the empty load and the load on them when he hookup to his trailer. If I was him I would not panic until he does a tow with properly inflated tires.

Usually that makes the tire harder and rougher ride... And it's like only 60 days for a ride guarantee.

@ramduk Verify each tire is actually marked "LT" before the size. The above reminded me of a time I had one tire of four with excessive center wear. The tire shop had put one passenger car tire on, that got the excessive center wear, vs. four LT's. They doubled down on the mistake when fixing it and put two new passenger car tires on the rear. Talk about a drunken sailor feeling that made one block before going back. Yeah, training opportunity. Finally with four LT's on: it drove properly in a straight line.