towing with smarty revo next weekend

[MSchneider]

thanks for everyones help.



is tm-4 more timing than tm-2, sence tm-3 is between stock and tm-2?

 

[AH64ID]

Yes TM4 is the most timing.

 

[MSchneider]

ok i just went from san diego to afton wy with my s0-6 smarty on #3 tm-4 tq-2 rp-1. i got a best of 18. 98 on the way home. on that tank i filled in ceder city ut and made it to san diego. on the way up i got from s. d. to salt lake i got 16. 58. from salt lake to afton wy with some driveing local around afton and some idil time due to cold temps i got 15. 47. then from afton to ceder city ut 16. 63.



it was me my wife and 2yr old with 400lbs of bags and misc in bed from sd. salt lake.

then from salt lake to afton it was the prev 3 plus my bro, wife, and six yr old. then from afton back to salt lake was the 6 of us then salt to san diego was just the 3 of us.



i set curse control at 70-79 mph during the whole trip.



any suggestions for beter fuel econ? beside slowdown or dose it sound right for what i was doing?

 

[MJerome]

i have pulled 14,000 pounds with my 06 dodge with the smarty set on sw2 because i was running the stock turbo. now im towing 14,000 pound with the smarty set on sw4 or either sw6 because i got a bigger turbo. so you will be fine if you set it on sw2

 

[SBeretz]

ok i just went from san diego to afton wy with my s0-6 smarty on #3 tm-4 tq-2 rp-1. i got a best of 18. 98 on the way home. on that tank i filled in ceder city ut and made it to san diego. on the way up i got from s. d. to salt lake i got 16. 58. from salt lake to afton wy with some driveing local around afton and some idil time due to cold temps i got 15. 47. then from afton to ceder city ut 16. 63.



it was me my wife and 2yr old with 400lbs of bags and misc in bed from sd. salt lake.

then from salt lake to afton it was the prev 3 plus my bro, wife, and six yr old. then from afton back to salt lake was the 6 of us then salt to san diego was just the 3 of us.



i set curse control at 70-79 mph during the whole trip.



any suggestions for beter fuel econ? beside slowdown or dose it sound right for what i was doing?

Your mileage seems about right for the speeds you were traveling. I think anything over 70MPH is going to drop you down some. Overall, it sounds like your truck did great for the speeds you were traveling, the hills you were climbing and probably the winter blended fuel you were using. Scotty

 

[AH64ID]

i have pulled 14,000 pounds with my 06 dodge with the smarty set on sw2 because i was running the stock turbo. now im towing 14,000 pound with the smarty set on sw4 or either sw6 because i got a bigger turbo. so you will be fine if you set it on sw2

Why are you towing on the even numbers? Or are you using Revo to add timing?

 

[MJerome]

I dont use timing when towing because it is bad on the motor when you have a big load on it. I have only towed very short trips with sw4 or sw6 just to see what it would do. I would stay away from programing towing with a stock turbo pulling hills. And as little as i could with any aftermarket parts.

 

[JDiepstra]

I dont use timing when towing because it is bad on the motor when you have a big load on it. I have only towed very short trips with sw4 or sw6 just to see what it would do. I would stay away from programing towing with a stock turbo pulling hills. And as little as i could with any aftermarket parts.

I guess you don't realize that your truck comes from the factory programmed in a manner to appease the EPA. There are many mods we can do to actually make it run better, and last longer. I have never met someone other than a dealer employee who things the stock parts are the best parts!

 

[AH64ID]

I dont use timing when towing because it is bad on the motor when you have a big load on it. I have only towed very short trips with sw4 or sw6 just to see what it would do. I would stay away from programing towing with a stock turbo pulling hills. And as little as i could with any aftermarket parts.

I am going to have to disagree 100% with you. Towing with stock timing and extra fuel is about the worst thing you could do. Your stock EGT's are 1400*+, add fuel to that and they only go up. 04. 5+ trucks have the most retarded timing of any Cummins ever put in a Dodge, for 1 reason and 1 reason only. . EPA...



Add some timing, your engine will run better, make more power, drop the EGT's, and get better economy. Smarty brings the timing back to where it would have been had the EPA not had a say in emissions. The only "neg" thing the timing does is increase emissions. . that's it.



I tow on SW1, no extra fuel just extra timing. I rarely see over 1200* on the pyro. My dad has an 06 and would see 1400*+ easily when towing 10K on the stock truck, he has yet to break 1300* with the S JR on SW1, and that's towing harder because he no longer has to drive EGT's.



Do your engine a favor use timing, not fuel for towing.

I guess you don't realize that your truck comes from the factory programmed in a manner to appease the EPA. There are many mods we can do to actually make it run better, and last longer. I have never met someone other than a dealer employee who things the stock parts are the best parts!

exactly. . It is easy to go overboard on mods, but mild airflow and timing improvements are a good thing.

 

[Regcabguy]

I am going to have to disagree 100% with you. Towing with stock timing and extra fuel is about the worst thing you could do. Your stock EGT's are 1400*+, add fuel to that and they only go up. 04. 5+ trucks have the most retarded timing of any Cummins ever put in a Dodge, for 1 reason and 1 reason only. . EPA...



Add some timing, your engine will run better, make more power, drop the EGT's, and get better economy. Smarty brings the timing back to where it would have been had the EPA not had a say in emissions. The only "neg" thing the timing does is increase emissions. . that's it.



I tow on SW1, no extra fuel just extra timing. I rarely see over 1200* on the pyro. My dad has an 06 and would see 1400*+ easily when towing 10K on the stock truck, he has yet to break 1300* with the S JR on SW1, and that's towing harder because he no longer has to drive EGT's.



Do your engine a favor use timing, not fuel for towing.









exactly. . It is easy to go overboard on mods, but mild airflow and timing improvements are a good thing.

SW#1 on my Sr. provides 30 rwhp. How does it provide 30 hp without extra fueling?

 

[AH64ID]

SW#1 on my Sr. provides 30 rwhp. How does it provide 30 hp without extra fueling?

Timing... all timing. Thats why the EPA crap is so silly. Depending on if its TM4, TM3, TM2 you can get between 15 and 55 rwhp at 2K rpms from timing only. This is a similar timing profile as SW2 and SW3. . So you can deduct that SW2 gets 30hp from fuel and SW3 get 60hp from fuel.

 

[cerberusiam]

I am going to have to disagree 100% with you. Towing with stock timing and extra fuel is about the worst thing you could do. Your stock EGT's are 1400*+, add fuel to that and they only go up. 04. 5+ trucks have the most retarded timing of any Cummins ever put in a Dodge, for 1 reason and 1 reason only. . EPA...



Add some timing, your engine will run better, make more power, drop the EGT's, and get better economy. Smarty brings the timing back to where it would have been had the EPA not had a say in emissions. The only "neg" thing the timing does is increase emissions. . that's it.



I tow on SW1, no extra fuel just extra timing. I rarely see over 1200* on the pyro. My dad has an 06 and would see 1400*+ easily when towing 10K on the stock truck, he has yet to break 1300* with the S JR on SW1, and that's towing harder because he no longer has to drive EGT's.



Do your engine a favor use timing, not fuel for towing.

exactly. . It is easy to go overboard on mods, but mild airflow and timing improvements are a good thing.

Well, that sounds good on paper but doesn't always work in practical application. My truck loaded actually does a little better with less timing and a little better yet with more fuel. Even empty more fuel and less timing seem to be a much better combination.



I don't know about other trucks but SW #1 adds fuel on mine from the smoke I am getting. Can't think of any other way to account for the extra black smoke. I have decided it likes SW #2 and timing 2 RP 3 for the best economy and driveability. Spends a lot less time shifting, less smoke than #1, and the EGT's don't get as high as #1 due to it almost never downshifting.



More timing is not always a good thing. It tends to increase the cylinder pressures, and, there is always the smoke to contend with with the timing. I feel it has something to do with the way the stock valve overlaps are setup and how it is scavenging the cylinders.

 

[AH64ID]

Well, that sounds good on paper but doesn't always work in practical application. My truck loaded actually does a little better with less timing and a little better yet with more fuel. Even empty more fuel and less timing seem to be a much better combination.



I don't know about other trucks but SW #1 adds fuel on mine from the smoke I am getting. Can't think of any other way to account for the extra black smoke. I have decided it likes SW #2 and timing 2 RP 3 for the best economy and driveability. Spends a lot less time shifting, less smoke than #1, and the EGT's don't get as high as #1 due to it almost never downshifting.



More timing is not always a good thing. It tends to increase the cylinder pressures, and, there is always the smoke to contend with with the timing. I feel it has something to do with the way the stock valve overlaps are setup and how it is scavenging the cylinders.

You say that SW1 must fuel because of the smoke, then say that the smoke comes from timing...



The smoke on SW1 is from timing, because SW1 uses stock fueling. It's going to be the same on all trucks. (except SO 03-04 trucks as Smarty brings them up to HO timing/pressure/duration, then adds to that)



I am not saying TM4 is the best. I run TM3 90% of the time. More timing than stock is what I am saying... I have run TM4 with stock tq management, its the timing that makes the motor rev better, the TQ management helps, but the timing really helps. .



Yes the stock cam timing is part of the reason the 3rd gen smokes so easily with timing, the fuel is the other (Marco gets none of the smoke we get with European fuel)



TM2 on the Sr is for stock injectors, its a fair amount of timing advance, yet you say your truck doesn't like the timing as much. .



Yes making more power at 1800-2400 rpms will keep the EGT's down a little as the 3rd event isn't as pronounced. . I have never towed with anything but SW1 so I cannot comment more than that.



I know on my truck it likes all the timing I can give it with the Jr. . I just don't like the smoke and the soot in my oil.



Even thou you say less timing is better you still tow on TM2, which is the 2nd most aggressive timing in the Smarty, and the most aggressive timing for towing.

 

[cerberusiam]

You say that SW1 must fuel because of the smoke, then say that the smoke comes from timing...



The smoke on SW1 is from timing, because SW1 uses stock fueling. It's going to be the same on all trucks. (except SO 03-04 trucks as Smarty brings them up to HO timing/pressure/duration, then adds to that)



Even thou you say less timing is better you still tow on TM2, which is the 2nd most aggressive timing in the Smarty, and the most aggressive timing for towing.

Don't you think I have tried stock timing also? Still get more smoke, black, with SW1 on stock timing, and a little more power. The timimg tends to be more gray than black but it will still soot a trailer. As with the rest of the tunes its hard to tell if its fuel or duration but there is a difference.



Timing 3 is more of a smoker and rattler than 2 and 4 is just plain scary. Timing 2 just happens to be the best compromise I can find across the selections for overall results. It varies with SW levels also and it just happens SW2 and Timing 2 is giving me less smoke and as good or better economy than even 3 default timing.



Not every truck reacts the same way so its not a one size fits all. Some even like a BD and/or Dr P tunes better than Smarty for overall performance. The temp differences also come into play and allow more leeway in the tuning.

 

[AH64ID]

I would guess that the smoke on SW1 TM1 is from TQ Management. . I would be willing to be it you went SW1, TM1, TQ1 you would get stock smoke. . because everything would be stock.

I get a very black smoke on SW1 (this is Jr but SW1 is SW1)...

No not every truck reacts the same, but the input from Smarty is the same 05 to 05. .

I too think my engine is louder the more retarded the timing is, thou its the opposite for smoke. TM3 is a little louder than TM2, but smoke a TON less. . and unless I am towing the TM3 EGT's are perfect so I run it to keep the oil clean. I haven't noticed a difference in MPG's TM2 to TM3. . But never ran TM3 in the summer as it came out in the fall.

 

[LRutigliano]

I've read thru every post here and need some grounding...



I have KAX Motorsports 80hp injectors which I almost 100% sure are the stock bodies with honed/balanced tips.



Are these considered "aftermarket" injectors in Smarty speak?



How do they "increase" timing as I have heard.



Should I run on SW1 with Timing on 2 or 3 ? (TQ =2, RP =1) while towing my 11k 5er.



I have tried towing on Timing =2 and it ran great, make that awesome... but I can't get my mind around the aftermarket injector setting for timing...



Recently, I changed Timing =3 (TQ=2,RP=1) and I noticed my boost pressure was up approx 5psi (10psi total) and my EGTs seemed higher (600-700F) just running at 60mph w/o the trailer. Would Timing=3 have that much effect on boost and EGT??



I guess I will try Timing =2 again and compare to the above situation.



Thanks,

Louis

 

[S.Morris]

I read some dyno charts on another site(can't rmember now which one) that listed timing #'s

1. 12deg

2. 21 deg

3. 18 deg

4. 16 deg.



Thier best recommended towing setup for Smarty Jr POD after test runs were SW 1, TM2,TQ2,POD99 (1-99 is percentage of tune power available to use... . ie. if POD is set to 60 then you can use only 60% of max available in that setting)



This towing setup said to enhance as follows:

little more power down low

good midrange

Mild top end with lowest EGT of any setting



Level #1 JR added 55hp/ 80-100lb/ft in the 1800-2400rpm range.



I readily admit to still trying to get my head around all the configurations. The dyno charts seemed legit but how do you know.



I am still trying to decide if Smarty Jr is for me and basically stock truck wanting best possible economy and lowest towing EGT.